SPS - MH or LED? Real World Theory

[tdb320reef]

SPS LED successful users don’t laugh I picked these up to experiment with. I traded a couple frags for this three piece 250 watt metal halide 20K radium set up. These are using sunlight supply ballast and running the lumen max 2 reflectors with radium 20k bulbs about 5 months old.

The goal is to identify whether 1. They are better growth and color wise. 2. Use the MH fixture to modify my evergrow fixtures to match color as close as possible. Unfortunately I lack any scientific equipment except a user grade par meter so this experiment will be example and opinion only.

I will be using a 150 frag system with about 200 frags and an anemone. With some initial par tests the single evergrow d120 is slightly higher in PAR over the 250 pendent. The color is much more “redish” under the LEDS and the color under the MH is a crisp daylight look much superior IMO.

If like many believe that they are “better” they may end up above my 320 gallon sps reef. Please post some experiments or ideas that you would be interested in seeing executed.

Thanks

 

[trueblackpercula]

there is no question that you will get some serious colors from the lighting VS leds. But what played a big role for me was the electric bill and heat that was transferred by MH 400 watts system with 150 VHO actinic lighting and now i use one single radion G1 with TIR lens. no debate here as i love MH i just didn't like the bulb replacement and the cost to run them. i would also like to note that i now can pick and choose what spectrum i like something i couldn't do with fixed bulbs.

i cant wait to see what happens for you as i have no doubt they will look great.

by the way send me pm with what you have for sale always looking for the good stuff

 

[sirreal63]

Looks like a fun experiment Tom. Conclusions will be difficult because of the light spill, the MH spreads into the LED's on the ends. I prefer to mix Radiums with VHO SuperActintics because the Radium has a very low 420nm output. The Radium by itself is a great bulb, but adding in that actintic makes it a much better combination.

 

[sanchoy]

I performed a similar experiment a last year. MH growth was better, however color, electric bills, heat, water evaporation swayed towards LED.

 

[tdb320reef]

Looks like a fun experiment Tom. Conclusions will be difficult because of the light spill, the MH spreads into the LED's on the ends. I prefer to mix Radiums with VHO SuperActintics because the Radium has a very low 420nm output. The Radium by itself is a great bulb, but adding in that actintic makes it a much better combination.

Yes Ill end up moving the two leds to one side and the mH to the other and measure the cut off point with the par meter. Ill see if I can get the 24" vho's. to make it more realistic.

Thanks.

 

[tdb320reef]

I performed a similar experiment a last year. MH growth was better, however color, electric bills, heat, water evaporation swayed towards LED.

Yes there is not doubt in the reduced total cost of ownership with LEDS. But man some of the MH tank like my buddies 320 has crazy color and IMO certain corals look 10X better.

I know LEDS are not as good as the MH set-up. I guess what I meant by better is can I get the D120's closer to the color and growth of the MH in addition to all of the reduced TCO and industry advantages.

 

[gbru316]

Yes Ill end up moving the two leds to one side and the mH to the other and measure the cut off point with the par meter. Ill see if I can get the 24" vho's. to make it more realistic.

Thanks.

You might want to think about putting an opaque divider between the light sources to completely isolate the two different types.

 

[tdb320reef]

You might want to think about putting an opaque divider between the light sources to completely isolate the two different types.

Great Idea!

 

[Peter Eichler]

Yes there is not doubt in the reduced total cost of ownership with LEDS. But man some of the MH tank like my buddies 320 has crazy color and IMO certain corals look 10X better.

I know LEDS are not as good as the MH set-up. I guess what I meant by better is can I get the D120's closer to the color and growth of the MH in addition to all of the reduced TCO and industry advantages.

Your tank is one of the better examples of LED lit SPS tanks. However, I still haven't seen anyone achieve the types of colors with LEDs that can be achieved with a good radium or T5 set-up. If you can do something to prevent light spill it will help with determining what's really producing better colors in the corals. However, regardless of the actual coral color, I think you've already seen that Radiums just make them look better to the eye when compared to most (maybe all) LEDs set-ups.

I've had a couple different LED fixtures, they were sold before I could see what the coals would look like longterm simply because I didn't like the way my tank looked no matter how much I tweaked the colors and channels. I haven't tried a Radion Pro yet, but I'm not about to given my experiences so far. Bottom line, I don't care what my electric bill and bulb replacements costs are (within reason), I buy what I think will make my tank and corals look the best. IMO it's still hands down a Radium MH set-up. I also disagree with the notion that they need any supplemental lighting to get spectacular results.

 

[rovster]

That's a lot of light over that frag system. What I notice is there will be a lot of overlap, so how will you know which works better. I vote for LED on left, MH on the right, same kind of frags and size on each side, and place a divider between the lights to isolate the light source. Both share same flow and water, that way you can isolate the light as the only variable (I know this is not perfect, but will give you a better idea). If you don't do it this way, how will you know what is working better?


Edit: Nevermind, I waited too long to post, LOL!

 

[Peter Eichler]

Also, if you really want to measure growth use a digital scale to determine how many grams each corals weighs at the start and end of your experimenting.

It will also only be fair if you include some corals that aren't adapted already to either light form. Perhaps try to get some frags from someone that runs T5's or totally different lighting from what you've had the frags under previously.

 

[Koralcrazy]

Great experiment! Curious question - how much PAR are you getting to the frags?

I think you may need to provide a little less PAR on the led side than MH, as it seems led PAR seems to really pack a different punch....

I'd probably do 250 par under led and 350-400 on MH....but nonetheless, great experiment! If anything, perhaps you can learn to better adjust the leds in the end to provide similar growth and color as MH. I am not saying MH is better, but it is different, so would be nice to mimic (if desired).

 

[tdb320reef]

Your tank is one of the better examples of LED lit SPS tanks. However, I still haven't seen anyone achieve the types of colors with LEDs that can be achieved with a good radium or T5 set-up. If you can do something to prevent light spill it will help with determining what's really producing better colors in the corals. However, regardless of the actual coral color, I think you've already seen that Radiums just make them look better to the eye when compared to most (maybe all) LEDs set-ups.

I've had a couple different LED fixtures, they were sold before I could see what the coals would look like longterm simply because I didn't like the way my tank looked no matter how much I tweaked the colors and channels. I haven't tried a Radion Pro yet, but I'm not about to given my experiences so far. Bottom line, I don't care what my electric bill and bulb replacements costs are (within reason), I buy what I think will make my tank and corals look the best. IMO it's still hands down a Radium MH set-up. I also disagree with the notion that they need any supplemental lighting to get spectacular results.

Thanks! Yes I agree that I've got to the point in this hobby where I have given up on cost even if that includes putting MH over my reef and running a chiller for better results. Maybe Ill use that isolation foam similar to what I am using to protect the wall behind as a divider. I would not jump to the Raidon pros as of yet they have way too much white light and you end up with overpriced fixtures that you need to turn way down for modest results. I like what pacific sun seems to be doing if I was to go for a higher end fixture. Most of my LeDS are in the value category so modifying them will not be an issue.

 

[tdb320reef]

That's a lot of light over that frag system. What I notice is there will be a lot of overlap, so how will you know which works better. I vote for LED on left, MH on the right, same kind of frags and size on each side, and place a divider between the lights to isolate the light source. Both share same flow and water, that way you can isolate the light as the only variable (I know this is not perfect, but will give you a better idea). If you don't do it this way, how will you know what is working better?


Edit: Nevermind, I waited too long to post, LOL!

Yep I will address these challenges to normalize the experiment. I have two of those Jeabo's on each side with the same settings so flow should remain the same.

 

[tdb320reef]

Also, if you really want to measure growth use a digital scale to determine how many grams each corals weighs at the start and end of your experimenting.

It will also only be fair if you include some corals that aren't adapted already to either light form. Perhaps try to get some frags from someone that runs T5's or totally different lighting from what you've had the frags under previously.

Any idea where to get said scale?

Yes Ill need to procure some external colonies and divide them up. Donations are welcome =). I also plan on doing chalices, lps and an anemone.

 

[tdb320reef]

Great experiment! Curious question - how much PAR are you getting to the frags?

I think you may need to provide a little less PAR on the led side than MH, as it seems led PAR seems to really pack a different punch....

I'd probably do 250 par under led and 350-400 on MH....but nonetheless, great experiment! If anything, perhaps you can learn to better adjust the leds in the end to provide similar growth and color as MH. I am not saying MH is better, but it is different, so would be nice to mimic (if desired).

Right now they are greater than 300. Apogee has a LED error correction factor that I will use the normalize the PAR. Your correct Leds read about 10 % lower than other light sources on that meter.

 

[tdb320reef]

there is no question that you will get some serious colors from the lighting VS leds. But what played a big role for me was the electric bill and heat that was transferred by MH 400 watts system with 150 VHO actinic lighting and now i use one single radion G1 with TIR lens. no debate here as i love MH i just didn't like the bulb replacement and the cost to run them. i would also like to note that i now can pick and choose what spectrum i like something i couldn't do with fixed bulbs.

i cant wait to see what happens for you as i have no doubt they will look great.

by the way send me pm with what you have for sale always looking for the good stuff

Sure thing - If I get the mad growth like I expect I should have plenty of frags. But to be honest, I was shipping frags for a little while and eventually realized how much I hated it. My bank account says I dont need the money so I rather put the time in enjoying the tank and these experiments. It is however nice to offset some of the costs for these systems but I practically give them away locally tho if you ever end up in Detroit for something.

 

[Peter Eichler]

Any idea where to get said scale?

Yes Ill need to procure some external colonies and divide them up. Donations are welcome =). I also plan on doing chalices, lps and an anemone.

I use this one. It's quite accurate and a good price.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weig...&qid=1384458512&sr=8-4&keywords=digital+scale

 

[tdb320reef]

I use this one. It's quite accurate and a good price.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weig...&qid=1384458512&sr=8-4&keywords=digital+scale

Now that I think about it I have a food grade one. I used it back in the day when I was on a health kick and measuring my food. Ill use that one - it is very accurate.

 

[jda]

Your experiment looks good. Like others have said, keep the light from bleeding over. I cut a 3/8" piece of plywood when I did it.

As for the cost, I can probably make a pretty good case that the cost will be about equal, or the MH even better, if you can provide the following:

How long is your 320G - actually LxWxH would be really cool? How many panels do you have on there now? What are the wattages? Run them at about 75% all-in? What is the cost of what you would replace them with right now (need to project for replacements in 2-4 years, if not sooner).

Can you keep your tank cool? Most large tanks can stay cool, and I assume that you can.