SPS Tanks Back then vs Tanks Now

[tdb320reef]

So after reading the entire Tank of the month section going back to 2002 it has become apparent that Modern tanks do not seem as populated and colorful as they did back then.

Now grant it there are more names, better photography and more access to corals now days. I don't see many tanks packed wall to wall with SPS. but rather two islands with a few corals sticking up.

Is this evident that some of the new methods such as bio-pellets, carbon dosing and LED lighting and overcharged needle wheel skimmers are the issue? Perhaps these advancements lead to counterproductive tanks.


The reason why I as is I find myself going to halides, removing filter socks, switching off carbon dosing and shutting off the skimmer for 12 hours a day, removing GFO and the tanks colors and health has significantly improved.

Not criticizing anyone or looking for a defensive stance, but just rather discussion on how things use to be vs now and if some of the new advancements have created anti-value.

 

[Dapg8gt]

That's a good point and something I noticed also reading old totm articles. Seemed to me initially when I was looking back I thought it would be to an unadvanced/under achieved tank but it was in most cases the opposite. Not taking away from the more recent tanks cause they are jaw droppers also =)

I for one have always been one to hold my nutrients higher than the status quo and recently removed my gfo just because I pulled the sump to change out my skimmer and have not replaced it yet. Over the 3 weeks or so my p04 hasn't risen at all and I swear I'm getting some better colors on some stubborn pieces I have. That could be wishful thinking though. I do still carbon dose so I think that is most likely keeping my tank where it needs to be for now . Think I'm going to just step up my testing and monitoring of p04 to see if I even need it at this point. I'm not really for or against it I'm just for what works best.. If simple is better I'm all for that because it usually saves money lol.

Interested to see what others have to say about it. I've been reefing since about '99 but only really into sps for the last 2 years so I have no first hand old school methods for sps coloration /growth.... Yet

 

[trueblackpercula]

Well I have been in the hobby 20 plus years and have seen some amazing tanks through the years. I think I see more better established tanks now then in the past but who am I to judge. Yes I also agree that you see tank with less rock and I kind of like that look but some don't. It's all a matter of what you want your reef to look at. I will say there are a few tanks around her that are packed with Sps and have some amazing Sps colors. Again it's all on what you want your tank to look like. Some will say barebottom tanks are the best and some say the look un natural. To me I like all of the tanks theses days and in the past.
Michael

 

[dvanacker]

Your seeing things Tyler. THere are a few good tanks in 2002 but more people run a successful SPS tank today. The people keeping nice mature SPS tanks back than were probably using the same principles successful SPS keepers are using today. Large skimmer (back then they ran huge becketts and downdrafts which are juice hogs but work really well), waterchanges, decent amount of fish and good quality food, good flow, good light. Its all basics. The difference maybe be in some of the methods such as carbon dosing or bio pellets which is a form of biological filtration, which maybe explains why we get away with using less live rock. But I think more poeple struggled with high nutrients back than. Today we see people stripping their tanks of food/nutrients with SPS going pale.

 

[jroovers]

It seems to me that there are plenty of tanks out there that have colourful coral... not sure what they were like 10 years ago as I wasn't in the hobby, but I have a hard time believing you could pull off better colors than what you typically see today in some of the nicer SPS tanks posted here. Will there be further advances in reefkeeping in the future - I'm sure there will be, but fundamentals are fundamentals.

Personally, I like tanks that aren't overstuffed with corals, but have a nice balance and plenty of room for fish to swim. That isn't to say that tanks that are heavily stocked with SPS aren't jaw dropping, because I've seen those too. As Darryl noted, the change in scapes to more minimalist styles may be because bio filtration has debunked the "X pounds of live rock per gallon" theory, and skimmers are more efficient, more affordable, and have smaller footprints (i.e. easier to implement without a fish room).

My current tank has no DSB and very little LR - just the fundamentals as Darryl noted, strong skimming, good balance of fish, strong lighting and flow, 2-part on dosers, and biopellets and small amount of GFO. Feedings twice daily and water changes once every week (or once every two weeks when busy), no other additives, dosing etc. Just plain old IO salt. That is probably the most valuable thing I've learned from him - KISS really is the way to go.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Your seeing things Tyler. THere are a few good tanks in 2002 but more people run a successful SPS tank today. The people keeping nice mature SPS tanks back than were probably using the same principles successful SPS keepers are using today. Large skimmer (back then they ran huge becketts and downdrafts which are juice hogs but work really well), waterchanges, decent amount of fish and good quality food, good flow, good light. Its all basics. The difference maybe be in some of the methods such as carbon dosing or bio pellets which is a form of biological filtration, which maybe explains why we get away with using less live rock. But I think more poeple struggled with high nutrients back than. Today we see people stripping their tanks of food/nutrients with SPS going pale.

Hey I am still running an MRC mr2 beckett lol works perfectly.

 

[GroktheCube]

While I've only been reefing a short time, I've been in the aquarium hobby since the 90s, and I've been reading about reefing and talking to reefers since all the way back then.

I think nowadays the "average" hobbyist has MUCH better success rates than 15+ years ago. SPS corals that were considered EXTREMELY difficult back then are kept with impressive success rates by many hobbyists today. My guess is that there are far more tanks nowadays that are on the TOTM level, which can make them not seem to stand out as much, or not seem as exceptional as they might have in the past.

People are also running into different sets of issues nowadays, with many having issues from TOO MUCH nutrient export, and in some cases too much flow.

The explosion of technology has also created more potential pitfalls though. Back then, everyone that wanted SPS and/or clams ran MHs, often with supplemental VHOs. The lighting was really pretty fool-proof. LEDs, dosers, calcium reactors, biopellets, carbon dosing, etc all add more variables where the hobbyist can potentially make an error.

 

[trueblackpercula]

While I've only been reefing a short time, I've been in the aquarium hobby since the 90s, and I've been reading about reefing and talking to reefers since all the way back then.

I think nowadays the "average" hobbyist has MUCH better success rates than 15+ years ago. SPS corals that were considered EXTREMELY difficult back then are kept with impressive success rates by many hobbyists today. My guess is that there are far more tanks nowadays that are on the TOTM level, which can make them not seem to stand out as much, or not seem as exceptional as they might have in the past.

People are also running into different sets of issues nowadays, with many having issues from TOO MUCH nutrient export, and in some cases too much flow.

The explosion of technology has also created more potential pitfalls though. Back then, everyone that wanted SPS and/or clams ran MHs, often with supplemental VHOs. The lighting was really pretty fool-proof. LEDs, dosers, calcium reactors, biopellets, carbon dosing, etc all add more variables where the hobbyist can potentially make an error.

Wow perfectly put

 

[Piper27]

Too much flow?

 

[tdb320reef]

I actually worked at the first LFS in Michigan that was the first to carry corals and sell in the early 90's which is where I developed my passion and addiction. So have been around long enough to see the evolution first hand. I agree that the supply chain, knowledge, income levels, technology, population in the hobby, social networking and availability have significantly increased from now to then.

However if you look at the quality of tanks published back then vs. now and normalize for the aforementioned variances, you will clearly see and IMO that those tanks looked better with more variety of corals and colors realizing that the cameras in those days did not capture HD.

Now I feel like I have a pretty astounding tank, however, have had some challenges which have either impacted or led to 1 of my 3 crashes in the three years that I have been into SPS. Now I like to tinker and over the course of time can measure what works and what has not with trial and error as I have kept logs and have documented the aquarium well. Interestingly, many of some of solutions were to discontinue, minimize or basically to use what they did in the way they did back then.

Issue list (New Tech)
1. White LED degrading corals
2. Designer Salt expensive which led to a recent major crash vendor admitted to impurities and qa challenges.
3. Zeospur, 1st crash from being miss or less than informed.
4. Bio-Pellets full flow through stripping nutrients Led to 2nd crash.
5. Needle driven skimmer ripping nutrients and TE's out of the water.
6. GFO which has created several issues.

Solutions to the above issues.

1. Switch off White LED and replace with 250 Watt Radium's.
2. Go Back to Instant Ocean the tank has never looked better.
3. Discontinue use and become more informed on dosing anything to the reef as if the product did not exist. This was a newbie issue in the beginning.
4. Reduce pellets and modify reactor to recirculate considering removing
5. Skimmer on a timer 12 H a day
6. Discontinue Use.

Summary of my issues incorrect light, over engineered and untested salt, Color manipulation with heavy metals, uncontrollable or non-measurable bacterial proliferation methodologies, over efficient nutrient removal with skimmer, BP, and GFO. Taking a leap and getting back on track was to , Implement proven lights, use basic salt developed 3 decades ago, allow bacteria to naturally spontaneously generate, absolutely no dosing if possible allowing corals to exhibit its natural colors, reduce skimming time as if it was a less efficient skimmer and minimize or discontinue carbon dosing and phosphate removal media and step up on weekly water changes.

I am in no way saying that there are not great tanks around or saying all new technology is ineffective, It just seems that some of the methods 10 years ago, while agreed inefficient, have yielded better results based on my TOTM analysis and other documentation on the net and for me have been solutions to almost all of my problems. In the big picture of things, from then to now, It is as if we are going through as productivity curve correction on a downward swing.

 

[tdb320reef]

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Too much flow?

In my tank I have set up extreme flow, I have 2 MP40's 2 mp60's two wave boxes and 2 tunze 6105's with 3200GPH return. I don't believe that you can have too much flow unless a power head is pointed directly in-front of the coral or the coral grows in-front.

However, having extreme flow may impede your growth objectives. For example I did an experiment with a yellow tort that I put close to the MP60 and one in the back very low flow area.

The yellow tort in the low flow area grew 3 X's faster than the one in the high flow area. But the tort in the high flow area is 3X's thicker. For me this experiment concluded that I had too much flow for the growth that I was looking for.

Same Size Frag

Tort in high flow

Tort in Low Flow

Solution is to reduce the MP40's and MP60's to max 50% and ramp up the wave boxes getting the maximum wave without the water going over-tank.

 

[therman]

Great thread, and I presume you saw my old tank thread.

Lighting is a tricky issue, as I did love the growth and colors I got under massive amounts of Iwasaki and VHO actinic light, it is just not at all the financially (or ethically IMO) sound way to do things nowadays. I was one of the first adopters/experimenters of LED lighting with a DIY Luxeon fixture before Cree XR-E came out. I was astounded at the growth you could get with a tiny fraction of the electricity. Colors, however, are a different issue that is much more nuanced, and you do get some odd growth sometimes from the extreme directionality of the light.

Besides lighting, flow, and Ca/Alk, I think almost anything else you manipulate in a reef tank is going to create more problems than it solves. Using macro algae for nutrient export is extremely effective without "stripping" the nutrients from the water. In my opinion even protein skimming is overrated, aside from its oxygenating effects. I remember seeing a study years ago that found that skimmate was predominantly composed of CaC03 particles...hardly the enemy of a reef tank.

I don't think that GFO, Zeo, or even activated carbon are all that beneficial to growing corals. There are easier solutions to those problems less prone to catastrophe.

Designer salts...don't think I would ever consider trying them. There is no way those companies will have the analytical rigor behind them (or as much riding on their safety) that IO does.

 

[Piper27]

In my tank I have set up extreme flow, I have 2 MP40's 2 mp60's two wave boxes and 2 tunze 6105's with 3200GPH return. I don't believe that you can have too much flow unless a power head is pointed directly in-front of the coral or the coral grows in-front.

However, having extreme flow may impede your growth objectives. For example I did an experiment with a yellow tort that I put close to the MP60 and one in the back very low flow area.

The yellow tort in the low flow area grew 3 X's faster than the one in the high flow area. But the tort in the high flow area is 3X's thicker. For me this experiment concluded that I had too much flow for the growth that I was looking for.

Same Size Frag

Tort in high flow

Tort in Low Flow

Solution is to reduce the MP40's and MP60's to max 50% and ramp up the wave boxes getting the maximum wave without the water going over-tank.

Yea I agree, the more the better. In my case I am growing nubby thick acros so I want them to look as natural as possible. I cant stand the look of corals growing in low flow environments but thsts a personal thing.
Great comparison pics too.

I am very confused at how the too much flow comment got tossed in, or what it means. Other than blowing the skin off coral.

 

[animalkingdom]

just a thought...do you think the populations of coral you mentioned seeing in older TOTM articles may stem from the fact that back then you were buying colonies of acropora this or that instead of 1/2'' frags of LE Beetle Juice's Flaming Eyeball acropora. I think over the years coral marketing and retail has changed.

 

[Stolireef]

Very interesting thread. I was friends with a two time TOTM keeper back in the eary 2000's (how wierd does that sound). The tank name was MistressReef. The owner of the tank was pretty much a genius and was way ahead of the curve on many things that are pretty standard today from Ca Reactors to controllers and automation. His system was pretty much the basic berlin method with some added doodads and excellent husbandry.

I can remember just staring at his amazing colors and growth. He had a pink Stylo that I would still just kill to get in my tank today. Was one of the first successful keepers of blue torts and other fairly common acros today. That said, looking at his tank now, he could still be a TOTM. I really think it's more about the basics than anything else.

 

[Stolireef]

Hey I am still running an MRC mr2 beckett lol works perfectly.

I had this skimmer. What a beast but boy did it perform. I think I was running a Mag 12 or 14 on it. Talk about sucking electricity.

 

[Peter Eichler]

We've gotten to the point that it is possible to over skim a tank, and provide too much light. Something most of us that have been doing this since the 80's and 90's didn't think was possible. Combine carbon dosing, heavy GFO use, and all the crap that people like to dump in their tanks with that and you're and you're going to find a lot of people struggling to find the right balance.

The hobby is about due for another swing in popularity for doing the basics. Proven lighting, a good skimmer, some water changes, and good flow while maintaining the big three and little else.

One other factor might be the prevalence of pests. Red bugs and aefw have become much more common in the hobby.

 

[Albert184445]

Great thread! Always been of fan of keeping it simple

 

[Stolireef]

We've gotten to the point that it is possible to over skim a tank, and provide too much light. Something most of us that have been doing this since the 80's and 90's didn't think was possible. Combine carbon dosing, heavy GFO use, and all the crap that people like to dump in their tanks with that and you're and you're going to find a lot of people struggling to find the right balance.

The hobby is about due for another swing in popularity for doing the basics. Proven lighting, a good skimmer, some water changes, and good flow while maintaining the big three and little else.

One other factor might be the prevalence of pests. Red bugs and aefw have become much more common in the hobby.

This is exactly the direction I've taken with my tank. Other than a Ca reactor, I'm keeping things as simple as possible.

 

[GroktheCube]

Yea I agree, the more the better. In my case I am growing nubby thick acros so I want them to look as natural as possible. I cant stand the look of corals growing in low flow environments but thsts a personal thing.
Great comparison pics too.

I am very confused at how the too much flow comment got tossed in, or what it means. Other than blowing the skin off coral.

I should have been more clear. I didn't mean too much flow as in too much water movement, I did in fact mean excessive local water velocity (stripping the skin off of coral).

In hindsight, it's not exactly a common issue, so maybe it didn't belong in that list.