SUPER telephoto - what would you do?

IPT

Active member
So as some of you may have gathered from my other thread I am seriously considering a MAJOR upgrade to my glass arsenal. Living in Alaska there is really a lot of opportunity for wildlife photography. I go to Denali annually, and also make trips locally near Anchorage where moose are around, and many birds too.

My current line up is a 7D and and a 1Ds Mark 3 (which I'm half considering selling to get a 5D mark 3-the 1Ds as nice as it was may have been one of my biggest purchase mistakes).

Anyway, my go to travel wildlife lens is a 300mm F4 IS lens often with a 1.4 MII teleconverter. If feasible and reasonable (working the wildlife from the road, or doing a dedicated hike/bike to a specific location for wildlife photography) I have and will haul in an old original model non-IS 300mm F2.8 lens in lew of the F4.

That system has worked quite well, except I find myself nearly always cropping my images. So, if I can get myself to part with the ridiculous amount of cash it's going to take I'm looking for a longer focal length in my glass arsenal.

I'm currently leaning toward the 500mm F4 IS MII. Rational, it's longer than 300/ 1.4 tele combo but not by too much. If I look at most of my images some are almost framed well. This focal length gives me the ability to shot without the tele but gets me a little tighter composition. Without the tele I should see a tiny image quality gain as well. It'll also give me IS for those windy days or just to help with dealing with the tremendous focal lenght on crop body. I'll also still have the option to throw on the tele to get me much tighter when I need it. The lens is also only about 1 lbs more than my current non IS 300 F2.8.

Option 2: 600mm F4. Rapidly falling out of favor. It's considerably heavier, more expensive, and may actually be too much lens for a fair portion of my shooting. There would be times it'd be killer to have but in the grand scheme of things I think it might be a little too much except in a minority of scenarios.

Option 3: A 400mm F 2.8. Would give me about the same range I have now but at F2.8 without the Tele. Images might be a little sharper, could shoot in low light. Thing is I know I want a little more focal length so I would likely be using the tele. Doesn't seem to make sense to me to buy a Super telephoto lens knowing I'll be putting a tele converter on it often. The pro is I would have a 400mm for those times I don't need to super tele. However, I figure the 300 F4 is not that heavy so I'd take it with the 500mm to cover that shorter range anyway (or my 70-200 F 2.8 with a 1.4). I've read some mixed thoughts about the 400mm staying sharp with the Teleconverter too. Most of what I've read is pretty unanimous about the 500mm and 600mm taking a 1.4 with very little IQ loss but not so with the 400mm F2.8.

So, what have you guys experienced or heard regarding this topic? A quick internet search reveals it's a common question. For the most part what I've read seems to put the nod toward the 500mm as the sweet spot. Especially the MII version that is sharper and lighter than the original model. Jeeze, to think my lens will be worth more than the SUV I drive to get to the shooting spot - yikes.
 
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Having a 400mm lens and 1.4x extender, I feel you will not get the reach you are looking for with a 400mm.

I envy the wildlife shooting opportunities you have out your back door. I look forward to seeing shots from the outcome of your upgrade.
 
I think I'd wait until Photokina and see if the 7D2 comes out. Maybe it has more MP which means better cropability.

Not familiar with the quality of Canon superteles, but on the Dark Side would pick the 400 2.8 + 1.4x which gives me an 840 f/4 on a cropper. Doesn't Canon have a 1.6x crop factor? If so, then that's 900mm f/4 on APS-C which is crazy reach.

My reason for choosing the 400 2.8 is speed and versatility. You can turn a 400 2.8 into a 560/4 with a 1.4x but you can never turn a 600/4 into a 2.8 lens. I'd take 1 stop of light gain anyday over reach, especially nowadays when we got a 36MP D810.
 
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I could never afford any of it BUT if I were in your area of living I would go for the 500. Nice and long, your 300 + tele gets you to 400 so you are covered there. A nice gimbal head for your tripod and you are all set. I'm not a fan of relying on more MP. I shoot better with my D200 then I do with my newer (and more MP) D7000.

But that's just me...I am but a pure hobbyist with much to learn and all I can do currently is dream...
 
Why you make me work??? Anyway, my brain took me to the 400 2.8. Now being a darksider, I really don't know the bodies, but putting the 400 on a FF body is where I keep getting back to. I think of some of the shots of critters you post, and I know you may do a crop or pull to get things where you want them. I just think the distance and speed would make a great combination. Moving the lens to a crop gets you killer distance at 2.8. Toss the tele on and at f4 the range is just out right insane.
 
We're gonna need a bigger suv.

sigma-lens.jpg
 
LOL, on that massive lens Jesse.

Actually the crop factor on the body is a moot point. All my wildlife is on a 7D now, so my shortage occurs with the 1.6 in-camera crop factor and a 300mm and 1.4 converter.

A 400mm F2.8 with a 1.4 = 560mm at F4 but requires a Tele (loss of quality?).
A 500mm F4 is, well, 500mm at F4 but dead on tack sharp being used bare. If I add the 1.4 it gives me 700mm of reach that the 400 can't with a 2x and that quality is not useful IMO.

What the 400 F2.8 does offer is an option if 500mm is too much, or an option if the light is very low. I feel I could make up for the closer range stuff if I also carry my 300mm F4 or my 70-200 F2.8 and the 1.4 tele. As for the low light, well today's camera are so good I could just bump up the ISO one notch and that levels the field.

I looked at a lot of my images last night. There are many times the 300 itself was fine. There were often times the 300 with the 1.4 were good (420mm), but could have been a little tighter if I had the choice. Of course there were also plenty of times I needed a lot more reach.

So it seems to me I'll use the 300 F4 still. With a 500mm F4 I can have that slightly tighter image I seem to need time to time. I can do it without a Tele so may get slightly sharper images too. Then if i need it I can whip out the tele and reach out with 700mm of love!

I think the 400 F2.8 would be nice but is too close to my current setup to justify the expense. I'm on the fence still but leaning toward the 500mm F4. I think the 600 would be overkill in all but a few rare occasions and the PITA factor would have me leaving it behind a lot. I think I'g lug a 500mm F4 around. Honestly the new MII version is only about a one pound (or less) more than my current old Non IS-300 F2.8. Aside from the space I'll barely notice a weight difference to the pack.
 
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I hear the crop factor issue and agree if reach is ultimately your goal then a body with an crop sensor makes a lot of sense.

However, I have been so impressed with the visual IQ of my 6D's full frame sensor that I can't see myself ever shooting with a crop body again, unless possibly my goal was max reach.

As an additional bonus I feel the FF sensor handles higher ISOs much more cleanly.

IMHO, it's hard to argue with maxing out your glass as a primary objective.
 
I hear the crop factor issue and agree if reach is ultimately your goal then a body with an crop sensor makes a lot of sense.

However, I have been so impressed with the visual IQ of my 6D's full frame sensor that I can't see myself ever shooting with a crop body again, unless possibly my goal was max reach.

As an additional bonus I feel the FF sensor handles higher ISOs much more cleanly.

IMHO, it's hard to argue with maxing out your glass as a primary objective.


I have a FF 1Ds Mark3 but I really only use it for landscape stuff. I could in a pinch throw it on there though. Truth is I bought it many years ago but got a dud. At the time I chalked it up to user error but it never consistently took tack sharp images. A few years ago I did some serious testing and realized it was the camera not me. Don't get me wrong, it can be stunning, but it misses a lot. It's been back to canon 3 times and they say it's within normal specs. It can be sharp, but I find if I want to really make sure I can't trust the AF. I resort to Live View and manual focus.

So, I couldn't trust it for wildlife using AF. I have seriously considered trading it in and getting a 5D mark3. I had the original 5D and sold it. I love the pro body, but miss the portability of the prosumer body. The 1Ds was a waste really as it depreciated so quickly. At least i know this glass investment will not depreciate nearly as quick.

For Denali and with birds what I need is the reach for sure. On the topic of IQ, I'll be attaining the same focal length I have now (even a tad more, 80mm). Thus I'll have to crop less improving IQ. Also, I'll be able to do it without the Tele converter so that too should improve IQ as well. The body remains a fixed entity but my goal was to upgrade to the newer 7D when it came out. Of course that was before I thought about getting a lens! I can't imagine anything the new 7D has will compare to the improved IQ of being able to shoot without a teleconverter and having to crop less harshly due to improved reach.
 
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My condolences about your 1D experience. Man, that must have been really frustrating.

As I recall, Jaybird likes his 7D for bird shots. You might send him a pm.
 
My condolences about your 1D experience. Man, that must have been really frustrating.

For sure, still is in fact. Sometimes when I review images I took I just get down about the lack of crispness. Of course it'll nail a bunch of them but invariably the "kiler" shot is soft.

I am actually going to do a critical review of my images. I'm going to go back about 8 years to when I had my original 5D. I'm just going to look at the % of tack sharp captures. My technique has certainly improved over the past 8 years. I'm curious to see if I had more "razor sharp" keepers with an optimally functioning 5D back in the day then I do now with a subpar 1Ds that I have to always tweak. If I did, hello D6, bye bye 1Ds.

Before you throw out the 5D iii I looked at it. The focusing is better but I have my 7D for that. The dual slots would be nice but not needed. This will be primarily for landscape so extra focusing points or speed don't matter. Essentially the output is equal and the price is 50% less. Apparently the 6D might have a little less noise at high ISO (great for Aurora!) and it can focus 1EV better in the dark. Seems like I can't go wrong a 6D for my particular needs. Not to mention if I'm lugging a 500MM lens around from time to time it'll be nice to lose 1.5 lbs not carrying a 1D body. Truth is I dread travelling with the 1Ds body because it is such a monster.

If I can just get past the realization all this is going to have on my back account it'll be all good :beer:. Here's the kicker, I could probably sell the 1Ds and break even with the 6D (even though it's like 6 or 7 years old). Truth is I'll just trade it to KEH or someone because I can't in good conscious sell it to another photographer knowing the reasons I'm probably going to let it go.
 
You might also consider seeing if you can rent any of those choices first. I've bought lenses I thought sure I'd love only to find that in practice it wasn't what I wanted. Might be a way to narrow the choices.
 
You might also consider seeing if you can rent any of those choices first. I've bought lenses I thought sure I'd love only to find that in practice it wasn't what I wanted. Might be a way to narrow the choices.

In deed, true. I know someone local with a 500 I can check out and I'm pretty sure if I leap that'll be the way I go. Looks like it'll fit my needs the best regarding what I want, and with the least amount of compromises.

As much as I'd love to say I'm going to try one I will more than likely just leap and hope I don't have (expensive) regrets later.
 
Doug is still alive! Cool. Post a pic. Please.

B&H sent me an email Thursday about Canon price reductions. PM me if you'd like a link. May be old news?
 
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You never have enough reach, someone else to carry the lens, or someone else to pay for it. The 500/4 would be my compromise. Consider what you will need (or already have) for support too.
 
That's what I'm talking about! Sweeeet. It's like I'm standing there. Where's my fly rod??

Thanks.
 
San Antonio creek in Valles Caldera, up in the Jemez. Formerly "the Baca."

Who knew New Mexico could be so green?
 
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