SWC 1A Cone skimmer review

[robyn]

Greg the way I understand it, none of the 1500 pumps are made to run external, from any of the many versions out there, with out modification, and addition of the anti lime loop. This is NOT a SWC pump issue, rather a Laguna pump issue. All of these pumps have the same issue. BK's Red Dragon, Hurricones askoll version, ATB's Airstar, or SWC's. The Laguna 1500 return pump, which all of them start as, was made to be in sump and to be cooled by sump water. It is made to work in the sump and with water surrounding it. The needle wheels from all the companies provide much less resistance than the stock impellar do. So it's my understanding that the pumps create less heat than they originaly were intended to. So the heat thing is really not an issue for any of the companies 1500 versions.

Since the Laguna was made to run internal, it does run hot after running externally after a long while. Not just the SWC, but all the pumps including the Airstar, Hurricone's version, and the Red Dragon. BK came up with the idea of the anti lime loop and Hurricone has a version of it too. This anti lime loop appears to work well externally. If you look close the Red Dragon pumps made for internal use, they do not have an anti lime loop. As great as they are, and they are great, they can not be used external either.

In a nut shell, all the internal pumps with a 1500 engine, do not have anything to worry about when used as intended. There will be no heat issues. That information passed on earlier, was to explain only why the pump shouldn't be used externaly.

 

[sjm817]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15013733#post15013733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robyn
The Laguna 1500 return pump, which all of them start as, was made to be in sump and to be cooled by sump water.

AFAIK, they were designed to run in a pond and be cooled by pond water

 

[biger]

They seem to run fine externally if you put a fan blowing right on the pump. My 1500 even runs cool with a fan blowing on it.

 

[gcarroll]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15013733#post15013733 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by robyn
Greg the way I understand it, none of the 1500 pumps are made to run external, from any of the many versions out there, with out modification, and addition of the anti lime loop. This is NOT a SWC pump issue, rather a Laguna pump issue. All of these pumps have the same issue. BK's Red Dragon, Hurricones askoll version, ATB's Airstar, or SWC's. The Laguna 1500 return pump, which all of them start as, was made to be in sump and to be cooled by sump water. It is made to work in the sump and with water surrounding it. The needle wheels from all the companies provide much less resistance than the stock impellar do. So it's my understanding that the pumps create less heat than they originaly were intended to. So the heat thing is really not an issue for any of the companies 1500 versions.

Since the Laguna was made to run internal, it does run hot after running externally after a long while. Not just the SWC, but all the pumps including the Airstar, Hurricone's version, and the Red Dragon. BK came up with the idea of the anti lime loop and Hurricone has a version of it too. This anti lime loop appears to work well externally. If you look close the Red Dragon pumps made for internal use, they do not have an anti lime loop. As great as they are, and they are great, they can not be used external either.

In a nut shell, all the internal pumps with a 1500 engine, do not have anything to worry about when used as intended. There will be no heat issues. That information passed on earlier, was to explain only why the pump shouldn't be used externaly.

Both the ATB Airstar 1300 (on the ATB Medium and Econo 1050) and 2000 (on the ATB Large) are based off the Laguna 1500 and several people are running them externally. I have not heard of any problems with them. As a matter of fact, I have heard nothing but praises for those pumps.

 

[sjm817]

Any idea what trick they are using that the other guys dont know? From what I read, its the rear of the rotor that gets hot which is why you see that lime loop tube going back to that area.

 

[mavgi]

On 75 Schf the 1500 will run hot external and the lime loop will cool the pump. the 1500 got very small body with strong motor this pump can pull more air easy but the pump run hot more then the other ones.... the lime loop goes to the back because just in this place you have small space to drill the hole for those pump....

 

[sjm817]

So, is there a wattage/PF where you can get away without the lime loop? Where is that?

 

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15014462#post15014462 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
So, is there a wattage/PF where you can get away without the lime loop? Where is that?

Between 50-60 watt the pump will run more safe external but also if you compare that for example to Eheim external pump this pump will run more hot. there is not alot of option to play with volute size on this pump design as the body build .....something that was able to reduce the watt use and keep the high flow...... because of that on big skimmer they use on bigger pump not because of the pump performance this pump can pull easy 45 LPM but the watt will jump high to 95 watt with pin wheel and over 100watt with mesh wheel at this watt this pump will be very hot....

 

[jamesdawson]

I ran mine external for a month w/o any problems. I even took the impeller out and checked it for undue lime deposits and found very little. The pump was a little hot to the touch though and could probably benefit from some forced air blowing over it sincethe cumulative heat will eventually kill a motor.

James

 

[sjm817]

Id be more concerned with the PF. This is also what causes the heat and damage to the pump. You can have a low wattage and a low PF and high VA. The Askolls have some sort of protection circuitry in them but I'm not sure how it works. BTW, I have messed with a couple of Askolls and am running one now, so I do have some familiarity with them.

 

[mavgi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15014499#post15014499 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jamesdawson
I ran mine external for a month w/o any problems. I even took the impeller out and checked it for undue lime deposits and found very little. The pump was a little hot to the touch though and could probably benefit from some forced air blowing over it sincethe cumulative heat will eventually kill a motor.

James

At the begin the pump will lose power and flow after that it will kill the motor.... the lime loop will let the pump run for longer time...
It's a very powerful pump compare to the big ones..... i personal think that from the laguna pumps it's the most performer you can get with this pump the same result as you can get from the 2000 & the 2400 i test that.... the only problem is that the body to small so the pump become hot quicker then the other...... but this pump can run big internal skimmer with great preformance like the other...... and because of that on large internal skimmer you can use this pump without problem but when it's change to external there is limit that you can push with this pump it will pull alot of air like the big one but the pump will run so hot that it's just matter of time it will stop to work.

 

[BlueStag]

Good thing we have some real tech reefers here to discuss this stuff. Here is what one of the online vendor says the numbers are. "250a uses a askoll 1500 and pulls 2100lph air at 70w with a pf of .53 in 8" water." And here is what another vendor says, "With our pumps and pinwheel impellers, we are seeing up to 80 SCFH in single pass mode. The Askoll pump we utilize draws less than 65 watts of electricity" And yet another vendor says, " Power factor of up to .53 The best in the industry! Draws less than 70 watts of electricity per pump. "

I'll leave it up to you guys to crunch the numbers. So far the advertised information has been pretty acurate, so I lean towards this information being very close to correct. You guys, do what you do with the numbers and will end up teaching me something about all of this.

If your like me, and had been using ineffecient pumps anyways, then this skimmer is a blessing. I used to run 2 x Sedra 5000's on a Euroreef 12-1, a pretty good skimmer. The SWC 1A Cone / MSX 1A Cone skimmer pulls double the air at almost 1/2 the wattage. 5 watts this way or that, won't be an issue for me. Not when you show me how much extra skimmate and air pull this SWC can do.

 

[mavgi]

Every company build different volute or use different intake/inlet.... also the way you connect the pump to the skimmer body will change the result.... take the same pump and mount it different way on the same skimmer body will change the result..... change the inlet , change the air intake , change the volute mod you will get also different result.... it's also depend on the skimmer body, different skimmers size will change the back pressure on the pump and the result... there is 2 member on Rc that got the ER 12-2 and for both of them i send in the pust volute to test.... one for sure run his skimmer with the 1500 and got better result.... good pump and good mod on that will let any skimmer work better.....

 

[gcarroll]

Either way that 1500 on the SWC seems to be the best performing 1500............by far! The leap in performance over the others just had me questioning it. If power factor is the most important thing, as smj817 suggested, and they are achieving .53, then all I can say is wow.

 

[GSMguy]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15014407#post15014407 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by sjm817
Any idea what trick they are using that the other guys dont know? From what I read, its the rear of the rotor that gets hot which is why you see that lime loop tube going back to that area.

Anton does this by trying to keep the PF as close to the stock PF as possible and not oversizing the magnets the pumps are cooled internally and as long as you don't make the NW too agressive it won't overheat.

The lime loops go where they go mostly because of where the coils are.

You can run laguna pumps externally too like in a closed loop or just as the return pump it's fine, all the flowstar pumps do good external

 

[GSMguy]

Can't someone test the PF with a killawatt? Bluestag?

 

[BlueStag]

Gsm I will test with a Kill o watt if someone local to Huntington Beach wants to loan me one. It's not that important to me, for me to buy one, but I know some want to know. So the invites out there.

Here is a link to guys testing and getting really good results on the new white Askoll on differant skimmer bodies. Maybe one of them will have a Kill o watt, and could get some numbers too. Their findings really support how strong this pump is.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1612295

 

[GSMguy]

Oh I see how strong it is, I bet their 2400 based pump will be crazy as well, just wondering on the PF as that might be a predictor of failures to come if it is the .4 or lower range.

Nice reveiw BTW and nice skimmer too looks to be very well designed.


BTW now that everyone can play nice we need all brand cone skimmer thread for us all to post our thoughts on tunning and sizing for various tanks and models, it would cut down on the 6 cone threads at a time thing...

 

[mavgi]

Sorry will not hijack the thread

 

[sjm817]

Wow, sorry this thread got hijacked onto this PF thing!

James, this is your review thread and we will cease and desist if you want us to.

On flow pumps:
Yes, they are fine external. Its the skimmer pumps that have the potential issue.

PF is influenced by may things. Like most things on a skimmer, comparisons need to be made under the same environment. Water depth of the skimmer will affect wattage and PF, intake restrictions do as well. Put the skimmer in deeper water and the PF increases. If you have a kill-a-watt, try this: Check the watt/pf with your skimmer in normal operation. Now close off the airline a little. You will see the wattage and the pf increase.

I'd be pretty impressed if the SWC 1500 has a .53 running on the skimmer body. I'd like to see a measurement too.