Taking Fish on a Plane from Japan

[Mark]

Hyposaline works great, and also relieves stress. I was in a bind once, and had to treat all my fish for ich in a brand new q-tank. I simply changed the water at 50% daily, and kept things 1.010. If you have decent tapwater, you can skip the ordeal of making RO water. Just run some carbon and add some dechlorinator in the water mixing vat. Once you get the number of salt scoops down, making a fresh batch is easy. I would also add a nitrifying bacteria kickstarter of some sort.

Hyposaline always works great for me. The fish's body uses less energy exporting salt, and the ich drops off pretty quick. The key is treating all the fish, and leaving the reef fallow.

I think adding him back to the reef with ich is a bad idea, personally. Treat the poor dude.

ATJ was probably the best disease resource RC had, but I haven't seen him on here in a while. His site is very informative about hypo:
http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/hyposalinity.html

 

[coralreefdoc]

Tactics. You have one thing going for you right now ... The specimen is eating ! Don't mess with that by dumping him in Cupramine ! Everyone's so quick to just throw Copper/Cu synthetic) in a QT and suppress the specimens appetite/immune system when it needs them the most ...

Not to mention, if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, Cu treatments have become much less effective on recent "strains" of Cryptocaryon irritans.

In your specific situation, I would highly suggest to keep feeding heavily a quality mixture of frozen/fresh foods, supplemented with Omegas and Garlic/other immune system boosters such as ZEOs Fish Immunstabil supplement. If, you decide to QT ... Drop the salinity to 1.012-1.014 (fish tolerate drops in salinity extremely well, in fact it helps alleviate osmotic pressure thus allowing them to save that energy consumed) and then over the course of the next day, or two, down to 1.010-1.009. At this point, I would advise keeping the specimen feeding in 1.009 for a few days and then proceed to the tank transfer method, in a hyposaline environment, once the specimen has stabilized.

Don't just be quick to throw a specimen in Cu, especially a Centropyge specimen ... That's for those who are utterly misinformed, or only have 1 or 2 treatment options in their arsenal !

Your best option at this point is to place him in a well stocked reef tank and try to get him eating asap. Worry about treating the protist later.

 

[Tactics]

Thank you for all the suggestions and encouragement everyone.

I am so tired. This has been a tough experience but a strong learning one.

Just some info on the little guy. I went to setup the QT but realized it would take too long for the salt to mix and and I feared my Jager heater couldn't regulate the temperature enough.

I took my chances and let him go into the DT. Better water quality, controller to regulate temp, ATO, etc. He's actually done much better and a majority of the white spots have fallen off. He eats mysis and pellets and grazes the live rock.

What I plan to do, and let me know what you guys think, is when he gets a little stronger, remove all my corals and inverts and house them at a friend's tank. Then go hypo in the DT. This way I can control salinity with ATO, temp with controller, etc.

 

[Tactics]

I've killed 2 flame angels with cupramine before I figured it out

Peter - this is exactly what I fear with copper and angels.

 

[woodnaquanut]

I've been reading your thread. I don't think I'd ever be brave enough to purchase an $1800 fish!
I've read the link to the hyposalinity treatment. There is also a great thread on RC in the 'Fish Disease Treatment' forum that deals with Ich and the tank transfer method. The TT method looks to be very easy. Two 10g tanks, two heaters, a couple of air stones and some fresh SW.

From your timeline it seems like tomorrow morning would be the time to move the little fella to the first TT.

Good luck. We are all pulling for you and this beautiful AF!

 

[auem]

Thank you for all the suggestions and encouragement everyone.

I am so tired. This has been a tough experience but a strong learning one.

Just some info on the little guy. I went to setup the QT but realized it would take too long for the salt to mix and and I feared my Jager heater couldn't regulate the temperature enough.

I took my chances and let him go into the DT. Better water quality, controller to regulate temp, ATO, etc. He's actually done much better and a majority of the white spots have fallen off. He eats mysis and pellets and grazes the live rock.

What I plan to do, and let me know what you guys think, is when he gets a little stronger, remove all my corals and inverts and house them at a friend's tank. Then go hypo in the DT. This way I can control salinity with ATO, temp with controller, etc.

it is great news that the fish is doing better...if it recovers on it's own,then i would suggest you to do nothing(like hypo,removing corals) for time being....

if you fear that itch parasite will remain in the system as dormant,then do such changes 3-4 month later....don't plan for major additions in upcoming few months...

 

[geaux xman]

Thank you for all the suggestions and encouragement everyone.

I am so tired. This has been a tough experience but a strong learning one.

Just some info on the little guy. I went to setup the QT but realized it would take too long for the salt to mix and and I feared my Jager heater couldn't regulate the temperature enough.

I took my chances and let him go into the DT. Better water quality, controller to regulate temp, ATO, etc. He's actually done much better and a majority of the white spots have fallen off. He eats mysis and pellets and grazes the live rock.

What I plan to do, and let me know what you guys think, is when he gets a little stronger, remove all my corals and inverts and house them at a friend's tank. Then go hypo in the DT. This way I can control salinity with ATO, temp with controller, etc.

90g SPS tank.. If you're not comfortable with copper, I would probably forgo the hypo idea. Way too many things can go wrong and ich will just survive or get introduced back into the tank.

I'd probably give the fish a couple of 45min formalin dips 2 days apart. Leave the fish in an acclimation box so you dont have to go thru the trouble of catching it.

I've given achilles x2, pbt x2, blue tang, 10+ angels, one hour formalin dips without issue.

 

[Yurivd]

Now that you have chosen to keep the fish in the tank. Your best option will be to limit the amount of white spot so installing a ozone and uv light system will help keep it form spreading fast

Also think of prazi pro it killes cleaner shrimps but from my experience it is fine with the rest of a reef tank

 

[coralreefdoc]

Geaux. Thats excellent advice regarding the acclimation box ... I'd prefer however, at this point in the scenario, for this specimen to receive a lengthy pH adjusted freshwater bath/dip before introduction, versus a much more aggressive formalin dip, in order to help limit the number of tomonts able to encyst and therefore reproduce ...

 

[coralreefdoc]

Yurivd. Praziquantel ? Wrong disease/symptoms/treatment ...

 

[Yurivd]

Yurivd. Praziquantel ? Wrong disease/symptoms/treatment ...

70% of fish have flukes and it can kill!

It is better to treat it fast

 

[coralreefdoc]

Yes; as a preventative for internals, in a QT environment where medications would be administered/charted accurately/diligently, I'd completely agree with your assertion ...

That isn't the case for this scenario, however, at least not at the moment

 

[OSTguy]

I've used Copper Power easily 5+ times on my tank with 5 angels in it, 1 being a flame, 1 being a regal and never lost an angel to that product. Hypo made my previous flame swell up and die. I won't do hypo again. Perhaps this angel being so small would make a difference to chemical tolerance. Never had an angel that small.....or expensive.

 

[humaguy]

copper should never be used with centropyge angels...hypo will not have a neg effect unless you drop the sal level at an insanely fast rate...actually will make the fish breathe easier...

 

[Fishfirst]

I've used copper with several thousand centropyges... It isn't lethal unless you have a weak fish, overdose, or add the fish to a coppered tank immediately after shipping. If it was lethal I know of a few popular places that wouldn't be able to offer a single centropyge.

 

[b0bab0ey]

Not to mention, if they REALLY knew what they were talking about, Cu treatments have become much less effective on recent "strains" of Cryptocaryon irritans.

I'm not a big fan of copper, but I'd love to see a link (or something) backing up your claim that "recent strains" of Crypto are becoming copper resistant.

If, you decide to QT ... Drop the salinity to 1.012-1.014 (fish tolerate drops in salinity extremely well, in fact it helps alleviate osmotic pressure thus allowing them to save that energy consumed) and then over the course of the next day, or two, down to 1.010-1.009. At this point, I would advise keeping the specimen feeding in 1.009 for a few days and then proceed to the tank transfer method, in a hyposaline environment, once the specimen has stabilized.

I don't understand the benefit of combining hypo with TT. If you're gonna do TT, just do TT at the SG the fish is already in. That would be the least stressful option.

I find it ironic that you're advocating hypo, a method for which there is evidence to support it being less effective on certain "strains" of Crypto:

"More recently, studies have demonstrated different salinity tolerances among strains of Cryptocaryon. Yambot (2003) described one Taiwanese outbreak occurring in sea bream Sparus sarba at a salinity of 5 g/L, and another outbreak in sea perch Lates calcarifer occurring at a salinity of 10 g/L. These two strains were successfully propagated in the laboratory at 7 and 10 g/L, respectively, and are well below previously documented preferred salinities."

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa164

 

[MrTuskfish]

Good info, b0bab0ey. I've felt for a long time that hypo was losing its effectiveness. I didn't have anything concrete, just the posts from an increasing number of people who had hypo fail. Of course, some of these failures are due to hobbyist error, there are many pitfalls with hypo; but just too many hypo problems from experienced folks. I know copper isn't for everyone; but if done properly, i think its as close to 100% as you can get. I'm going to try CP as soon as a local LFS has the the right fish with ich. Also IMO; I think tank-transfer should be the first choice for ich; if its feasible with the number of fish, etc.

 

[lhm nole]

Good info, b0bab0ey. I've felt for a long time that hypo was losing its effectiveness. I didn't have anything concrete, just the posts from an increasing number of people who had hypo fail. Of course, some of these failures are due to hobbyist error, there are many pitfalls with hypo; but just too many hypo problems from experienced folks. I know copper isn't for everyone; but if done properly, i think its as close to 100% as you can get. I'm going to try CP as soon as a local LFS has the the right fish with ich. Also IMO; I think tank-transfer should be the first choice for ich; if its feasible with the number of fish, etc.

I did cupramine numerous times and every time ich came back .. Did hypo and that did the trick.Also had great success with coppersafe..I have never tried tank transfer.I have also done the uv thing and its sitting in my garage now.

 

[b0bab0ey]

I know copper isn't for everyone; but if done properly, i think its as close to 100% as you can get.

I've used Coppersafe for 20+ years without any major problems. Sure, I'd lose a fish every now & then or have one stop eating. Then I tried Cupramine for the first time because I kept reading how much better it supposedly was and had a wipe out. It was probably just a freak thing, but that experience has made me a bit more hesitant to use copper. However, that being said, I'm currently QT'ing two wrasses and a goby using Coppersafe. I know for a fact that the wrasses both have Ich and they are all doing great!

I did cupramine numerous times and every time ich came back .. Did hypo and that did the trick.Also had great success with coppersafe..I have never tried tank transfer.I have also done the uv thing and its sitting in my garage now.

Did you test the Cupramine every night? From what I've read, if it drops below .35 it's not effective.

 

[MrTuskfish]

I'm sure Coppersafe works as well as Cupramine; I guess there are just quite a few little "tricks" that you pick up after using like these meds for many years. If it works, why change? +1 on the UV comment.Some folks are positive that UV does the job; but the number of long-time hobbyists that I know who use UV for parasite eradication is zero. Also, I don't know of any recognized author or researcher who advocates UV for anything other than as a water-clarifier. If you understand the life cycle of ich; (IMO) its impossible to see how every single ich theront could find the UV intake before it found a fish. Especially when most theronts are released from the substrate at night, and most fish sleep there.