The angel thread to end all angel threads: all owners of angelfish in reefs respond!!

I have a Bellus (male) that is great, doesn't touch a thing, eats flake and misis. I have had a blueface, same - great fish, I miss him RIP, as well as an Asfur, didn't touch a thing. I have sps,lps, and some softies. I feed once or twice a day (depends how late I am). I will get another Asfur someday.... I had a self inflicted outbreak of ich, witch turned to velvet... just a disaster and they did not make it through quarantine. still kicking myself - too long to go into, but solely my fault! all is well now, and tank is doing great.
 
Cherub Angel (Centropyge argi)

Have a trio in 210 dt for 2 months now, haven't bothered anything so far. I keep wellsophyillia, palys, zoas, rics, yumas, duncans, hammer, montipora, anenome
 
Aside from being up to the individual angel, feeding them heavily is a requirement, period. If your filtration and skimmer are not up to the task, or you travel for work etc., don't bother keeping an angel in a reef. While many people think they're feeding heavy, often times it pales in what these fish actually need. Tangs and Angels in the wild are plump.

All Angels will go nipping if bored or hungry. IMO, boredom can be somewhat curbed by giving enough random flow to almost move a 10 pound piece of liverock. I have what most would consider an (uncomfortable) tidal surge. The upper one foot of the tank is without coral, and fish venturing into this zone have a hard time swimming straight. My Achilles and Passer Angel often share the flow to the other end of the tank.

In a 6 foot 150 I have 4 Vortech MP40s on full blast with an Iwaki 30 return pump. This calculates to over 80 times turnover. When funds allow, I will add two more Vortechs, as the SPS will eventually cause flow rates to decrease. Trying to keep Angels in soft coral and LPS dominated tanks would be the ultimate of challenges and possibly playing with fire. My reef is 100% SPS dominated.

When first adding an Angel, many times they've been starved at the LFS or fed lightly in your QT for fear of pollution. My Passer immediately took to a Green Hydnophora for a quick nip within a minute of introduction. A rash decision would have been to pull the fish immediately. Since I average 4 cubes of frozen throughout the day, plus pellet and nori, I can't remember when he's last nipped at an SPS or clam. Because of this feeding regime, I have large sumps full of Chaeto and liverock with half the display's water volume in sump volume. I also have a downdraft skimmer sized for almost 3 times my tank, and perform a 50 gallon weekly water change religiously. Although I have 1 pound of live rock per gallon of tank water, only 120 pounds are in the display with the rest in the sump. This open space, especially at the top of the tank has been essential in providing an airiness that allows for more swimming room and less encounters between fish that may have a propensity to tear each other apart.

I also feel that small schooling fish like Anthias and Chromis act like little mosquitoes getting in the way of the big boys fighting. Bob Fenner calls them "ditherfish", and their darting in and out of corals and live rock caves is a wonderful distration for larger predators like passer angels.

I'm not naive in believing my 150 is the final home for these fish. I'm currently building a 500 gallon plywood tank in the garage, that will have a dedicated 300 gallon sump. So far, this method has worked for me very well. Angels will on occasion nip at your sps, but I really feel they're not interested in them as a meal as much as LPS and Softies. Keeping up the flow, feeding more and filtering heavily have been successful for me. A fellow reefer offered to take my passer off my hands for his aggressive fowlr should he turn on his tankmates and my sps. That was too long ago for me to remember. Hopefully DJ Reef doesn't think I'm a know it all. I'm not an expert by any means. All my SPS have been fragged and given to friendly reefers free of charge in the event that the Passer wakes up believing he's in an all you can eat buffet.

Any angel, in any reeftank, is a chance. I feel with the right specimen, and withthe right attention it can be done to an extent. Not for the faint of heart, but definitely some of the most beautiful fish in any tank if you're an adventurist soul.
 
Aside from being up to the individual angel, feeding them heavily is a requirement, period. If your filtration and skimmer are not up to the task, or you travel for work etc., don't bother keeping an angel in a reef. While many people think they're feeding heavy, often times it pales in what these fish actually need. Tangs and Angels in the wild are plump.

All Angels will go nipping if bored or hungry. IMO, boredom can be somewhat curbed by giving enough random flow to almost move a 10 pound piece of liverock. I have what most would consider an (uncomfortable) tidal surge. The upper one foot of the tank is without coral, and fish venturing into this zone have a hard time swimming straight. My Achilles and Passer Angel often share the flow to the other end of the tank.

In a 6 foot 150 I have 4 Vortech MP40s on full blast with an Iwaki 30 return pump. This calculates to over 80 times turnover. When funds allow, I will add two more Vortechs, as the SPS will eventually cause flow rates to decrease. Trying to keep Angels in soft coral and LPS dominated tanks would be the ultimate of challenges and possibly playing with fire. My reef is 100% SPS dominated.

When first adding an Angel, many times they've been starved at the LFS or fed lightly in your QT for fear of pollution. My Passer immediately took to a Green Hydnophora for a quick nip within a minute of introduction. A rash decision would have been to pull the fish immediately. Since I average 4 cubes of frozen throughout the day, plus pellet and nori, I can't remember when he's last nipped at an SPS or clam. Because of this feeding regime, I have large sumps full of Chaeto and liverock with half the display's water volume in sump volume. I also have a downdraft skimmer sized for almost 3 times my tank, and perform a 50 gallon weekly water change religiously. Although I have 1 pound of live rock per gallon of tank water, only 120 pounds are in the display with the rest in the sump. This open space, especially at the top of the tank has been essential in providing an airiness that allows for more swimming room and less encounters between fish that may have a propensity to tear each other apart.

I also feel that small schooling fish like Anthias and Chromis act like little mosquitoes getting in the way of the big boys fighting. Bob Fenner calls them "ditherfish", and their darting in and out of corals and live rock caves is a wonderful distration for larger predators like passer angels.

I'm not naive in believing my 150 is the final home for these fish. I'm currently building a 500 gallon plywood tank in the garage, that will have a dedicated 300 gallon sump. So far, this method has worked for me very well. Angels will on occasion nip at your sps, but I really feel they're not interested in them as a meal as much as LPS and Softies. Keeping up the flow, feeding more and filtering heavily have been successful for me. A fellow reefer offered to take my passer off my hands for his aggressive fowlr should he turn on his tankmates and my sps. That was too long ago for me to remember. Hopefully DJ Reef doesn't think I'm a know it all. I'm not an expert by any means. All my SPS have been fragged and given to friendly reefers free of charge in the event that the Passer wakes up believing he's in an all you can eat buffet.

Any angel, in any reeftank, is a chance. I feel with the right specimen, and withthe right attention it can be done to an extent. Not for the faint of heart, but definitely some of the most beautiful fish in any tank if you're an adventurist soul.

I agree! :thumbsup:

my Imperator was a model citizen for over a year until I introduced a few duncan's which wet his appetite, then he woke up and went after a clam, torch and frogspawn that had previously been in the tank untouched, he quickly learned he was at the buffet :D Never touched the sps, without question the best fish I've ever had
 
Potter's Angel:
Yes, nipped only at snails but never killed them (to my knowledge)

Flame Angel:
Nipped at corals (acans and lobo) and snails

Coral Beauty Angel:
Yes
No problems
 
Aside from being up to the individual angel, feeding them heavily is a requirement, period. If your filtration and skimmer are not up to the task, or you travel for work etc., don't bother keeping an angel in a reef. While many people think they're feeding heavy, often times it pales in what these fish actually need. Tangs and Angels in the wild are plump.

All Angels will go nipping if bored or hungry. IMO, boredom can be somewhat curbed by giving enough random flow to almost move a 10 pound piece of liverock. I have what most would consider an (uncomfortable) tidal surge. The upper one foot of the tank is without coral, and fish venturing into this zone have a hard time swimming straight. My Achilles and Passer Angel often share the flow to the other end of the tank.

In a 6 foot 150 I have 4 Vortech MP40s on full blast with an Iwaki 30 return pump. This calculates to over 80 times turnover. When funds allow, I will add two more Vortechs, as the SPS will eventually cause flow rates to decrease. Trying to keep Angels in soft coral and LPS dominated tanks would be the ultimate of challenges and possibly playing with fire. My reef is 100% SPS dominated.

When first adding an Angel, many times they've been starved at the LFS or fed lightly in your QT for fear of pollution. My Passer immediately took to a Green Hydnophora for a quick nip within a minute of introduction. A rash decision would have been to pull the fish immediately. Since I average 4 cubes of frozen throughout the day, plus pellet and nori, I can't remember when he's last nipped at an SPS or clam. Because of this feeding regime, I have large sumps full of Chaeto and liverock with half the display's water volume in sump volume. I also have a downdraft skimmer sized for almost 3 times my tank, and perform a 50 gallon weekly water change religiously. Although I have 1 pound of live rock per gallon of tank water, only 120 pounds are in the display with the rest in the sump. This open space, especially at the top of the tank has been essential in providing an airiness that allows for more swimming room and less encounters between fish that may have a propensity to tear each other apart.

I also feel that small schooling fish like Anthias and Chromis act like little mosquitoes getting in the way of the big boys fighting. Bob Fenner calls them "ditherfish", and their darting in and out of corals and live rock caves is a wonderful distration for larger predators like passer angels.

I'm not naive in believing my 150 is the final home for these fish. I'm currently building a 500 gallon plywood tank in the garage, that will have a dedicated 300 gallon sump. So far, this method has worked for me very well. Angels will on occasion nip at your sps, but I really feel they're not interested in them as a meal as much as LPS and Softies. Keeping up the flow, feeding more and filtering heavily have been successful for me. A fellow reefer offered to take my passer off my hands for his aggressive fowlr should he turn on his tankmates and my sps. That was too long ago for me to remember. Hopefully DJ Reef doesn't think I'm a know it all. I'm not an expert by any means. All my SPS have been fragged and given to friendly reefers free of charge in the event that the Passer wakes up believing he's in an all you can eat buffet.

Any angel, in any reeftank, is a chance. I feel with the right specimen, and withthe right attention it can be done to an extent. Not for the faint of heart, but definitely some of the most beautiful fish in any tank if you're an adventurist soul.

Many good points.

DJ
 
One further note to point out is tank mates. I feel that too many times we choose a "king" show fish that rules the tank for the wrong reasons. If that king fish is an angel in your reef with no one to ever have him looking over his shoulder (so to speak), then there's unlimited time pecking at whatever they want. You can learn a lot from looking at an aggressive fowlr setup. Rarely do you see any of the fish just sitting still and pecking at one piece of live rock for too long. If they do, some other predator notices it immediately and is there to challenge or disrupt whatever's being taken, so it keeps them moving "with the herd". I'm not telling people to go and throw a clown trigger, sohal tang and passer angelfish in their reef tank, but in a large aquarium that could make for an interesting breakthrough...lol.

So many times you hear of someone's Sohal or Passer turning and killing their Copperband Butterfly, Percula Clownfish, Regal Tang and the list goes on. My tank is defiinitely more on the aggressive feeder side. My Achilles tang, Yellow tang and Passer Angel rule the roost. I'm pretty certain that if I removed the Achilles and Yellow tang that my Anthias and Chromis would be killed by my Passer in short order. I can almost guarantee that with no one to help keep the Passer on his toes that I would have a reef tank minus the corals. If you're the biggest, baddest bully on the block, you'll keep being a bully. Remember that all the fish we keep come from the reef. Some are more safe than others for our reeftanks, but a healthy sense of fear and predation can sometimes allow peace to predominate.

To quote the late Patrick Swaze from Point Break, "You project strength
to avoid aggression. Peace...through superior fire power."

As long as we keep our stocking list within reasonable boundaries, don't throw caution to the wind and honestly research (from more than just this website) our livestock selections, then I'm sure there's many new discoveries to be made in such a young and exciting hobby. Just look at what's been possible in the last 10 years. Books from coral biologists in the 1990's spoke of how keeping sps corals in captivity was environmentally unconscionable because it was a game that only the wealthy could play due to constantly having to replenish the inevitable dead coral skeleton collection in hobbyists' tanks. I honestly feel that if we all emptied our frag tanks we could replenish a good portion of a natural and endangered reef. Our corals are more hardy than wild ones, and we've learned a lot in a short amount of time.

Unless some of us share experiences that are against the grain, then there will be nothing new to learn....and that would suck. I can't wait to see pictures of blue spot groupers, sting rays and sharks in 50,000 gallon aquarium reef tanks. When that happens...we've made it!
 
2 tiny African Flameback and 2 small Flame angel.
60G tank.

African Flameback angel reefsafe.

Flame angel shown no interest in zoa and meaty coral but like to nip my SPS, birdnest. Current portion of the branches whiten. This behaviour started after 2 month in my tank.
 
Excellent thread, I would like to see this sticky to get more response to get a better idea of some of these excellent fish! thanks so much for the time you have spent!
 
I have a Venustus Angel, Paracentropyge venustus, for the last month. Eating only off the LR even after offering all types of food. Has been a model citizen from day one. I do however have no acans or clams, only SPS, LPS, and Zoos.
 
I can't keep short or long polyp zoas in my tank with a cream angel. That stuff has to taste miserable compared to some of the other smorgasboard of corals I have in my tank. But the angel doesn't touch anything else.
 
In my 120g sps tank.

Goldflake angel, nips abit but not to bad to harm the corals.
Flame and coral beauty, had them both nearly 3 yrs and i have not seen them nip anything.
 
in my past experience i had over a dozen of angel from 2" - 12" in a 200gal mixed reef tank... on each and every individual some did eat/nip certain corals and some didn't touch any...i fed them 3 time daily...

the only thing IMO if you cherish you valuable corals stay away from angel...even pygmies... but if you don't mind then it's all worth it because in their natural habitat that's what angels do...
 
griffis angel. Clam nipper
Multicoloured angel, reef safe
Flame angel, reef safe
Venusta angel, clam nipper
Koran angel, not reef safe!!!! Really not!!!
Emporer angel' clam nipper
Multibarred angel, zoa nipper..

Hope this finds its way into your table,

Kai
 
juvenille emporer angel 2 weeks no problems

then any thing like a open brain he out the mouths out of and tube worms. I had to cover corals and then it took me weeks to get him out feeding him next to a net
 
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