The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming gam

[Mudbeaver]

Tired of being pointed and accused and blamed as the cause for the decline in species. A glimpse of what you should know , i'm not an activist or part of any group, Peta or any or these associations, its not a political statement, i just read and i can make up my own mind, but i hate hypocrisy of goverments and companies who target us as THE MAIN cause for species decline an impose on us restriction while the companies most responsable for the destruction of habitat and wild life seems to have no restrictions at all. Sorry for the sarcasm but i'm ****ed today, by these findings.



As i read my book i discover a few reality and truths about are hobby. These few lines are very indicative of it. [[[ Wheater on the coast of Kenya (Mombassa) where the reefs have been badly destroyed by the impact of massive tourism, or in the straits of Malaca where extensive ship traffic affects the reefs and rocky coastal area, especially between Sumatra and Singapore, or the reefs damaged by off-shore oil drilling in central Java sea.... ]]]]] The point being when we are told by goverments that the fishing or aquarist hobby as captured too many and are responsable for the decline of such and such species, i would like to remind eveybody that they're passing the bucket to us! That its the other human activities, plundering especially of companies , from big oils, to mining and the flock of tourist and stupid tourist with their plastis wrap left everywhere that pollutes and destroy the environment that are the major problem in this equation, not the sole aquarist hobbyist per say and to put us as the single cause is an unfair statement, and in their decisions, verdict and announcement it should underline it very specifically and up front as to promote and put responsability where it is most due. Their's more tourist, companies and oil than hobbyist in this world.

Stained glass surfing.

Hey its the new leather coral ; Oldoranus, Tirenass,sp. They're indestructable you can't kill these and the reproduce , by millions each year.

You must be so proud of your new multimillion dollars yak, i mean yacht.

Where my bike mom, where we ditched it the last time!

The poor thing couldn't find anything in the ocean to camouflage himself so we tought we'd help him.

Hope that quenched your thirst

Ahhh a bigger thirst

Familly party thirst.

Definitely us hobbyist who endager the reefs and the shores of the world look at us and what we do.





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[Mudbeaver]

The decile of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

The decile of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

You think these idiots care where they are.

Apparently not they left their costume behind

Pharmaceutical companies dumping chemicals 24/7.I though my fish look a bit neurotic these days. He swims backward and upside down ever seen that anywhere ? In any case to hide the evidence you need a good make up job.

A whole city take a dump that must feel so good 24/7

An unkown hazardous chemical, i love a good mystery.

Don't you love a colorfull ocean. We're truely artist of the world. I'm sure everybody appreciates it even the animals below.

Is it before or after the mess.

Its just a tiny part of the ocean can't have any effect on the wild life. Except that it happens every day somewhere, so often in fact thats its no longer news.

It wasn't disected that was how the remains where found.

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[Mudbeaver]

The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

Approved by are goverments

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[Mudbeaver]

The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

I wonder what kind of song would the BeachBoys write with that kind of wave.

I'm not responsable for any of this are you when you buy your little fish. So why is the goverment single us out as the destroyer of reefs and blame us for the decline of species....sorry for the sarcasm but i'm ****ed off today.

Have you catch your lunch today??

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[Mudbeaver]

The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

The decline of species in are hobby who is to blame. A discussion, not a blaming game

This pile of gooooo result of chemical dumping.

So before you're to eager to accept responsability for the decline of species in the reefs just remember that these activities where happening for far longer before we had , us the general public access to aquariums. I'm not saying that we don't have are faults and that are methods are without reproche i'm just saying the goverment and companies are quick to give us the blame whitout condidering who had free hands before on and in the ocean.​

 

[mwminer]

It truly is sad. We have no excuses....all of us are to blame....but some of us try to make it better. Thank you for bringing this to the forefront. I knew it was bad but not THIS bad.

 

[Timfish]

Forest Rohwer's book, Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas is a real eye opener and does a pretty good job of arguing it is the overfishing of the apex preditors on reefs coupled with excess nutrients from human activity are primary causes of degradation of reefs. Certainly some species need to be protected but interestingly coral imports into the USA have been dropping for 6 or 7 years now. Looking at how much is being grown by aquarists in central Texas I like to think we're becoming a little more self sustaining.

 

[CaliCal]

ah, reminds me of the dead spots in the ocean..that is terrible.

 

[r-balljunkie]

It truly is sad. We have no excuses....all of us are to blame.....

Yes,

we all swim in the same ocean, responsibility wise. The degree of blame varies.

 

[Puffyluv]

Just because we aren't the majority of the problem doesn't mean we don't have any responsibility here.

I see threads still touted as "check out my awesome WILD" this or that...when we stop rewarding this as a hobby (ohhh, you have that rare fish that they only ever caught three of because it's so rare...oooo you are so special and rich...can I touch you, or at least drink your skimmer water?!?) and we have lessened our own impact on the reef so as to be negligible - I will climb right up on that high horse with you...until then - I'm hiding in my greenhouse, trying to make a difference one frag at a time!

 

[Mudbeaver]

Just because we aren't the majority of the problem doesn't mean we don't have any responsibility here.

I see threads still touted as "check out my awesome WILD" this or that...when we stop rewarding this as a hobby (ohhh, you have that rare fish that they only ever caught three of because it's so rare...oooo you are so special and rich...can I touch you, or at least drink your skimmer water?!?) and we have lessened our own impact on the reef so as to be negligible - I will climb right up on that high horse with you...until then - I'm hiding in my greenhouse, trying to make a difference one frag at a time!

Yes your absolutely right, the thing is too that , it takes permits to put some of those thing out there. Some are out there without permits. So who give those permits in the first place?

Incompetent people... You just have to look at John Stewards wrap up of some congressman's remarks on science man . Its hillarious and sad at the same time. To think that we're led by idiots and incompetent like that.

I recently was contacted about a feather star and a basket star that are on the market. You know why? Because my system is by defenition the best chance they got.

I run a very hight nutrience tank. Because i have an NPS zone , gorgonians, clams and sponges, for which i dose hourly. Even then i'll have to make modifications and i have no clue at what the result will be, but the odds are againts me.

But they're on the market!!!! Because they got the right of import, export! Who gave those permits...? I didn't and the biologist would certainly wouldn't have if they'd been on a serious committee. But it was a committee made of paper pushers who don't know squat!!



-*+
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[Puffyluv]

Permits?

I am pretty sure that collection permits are not done by species, but by area? And are they even needed everywhere? I think most of the legality of any of it comes in when CITES gets involved, right? When it needs to be shipped out?

And the MOMENT any species is brought up for restriction, or banning it from the trade altogether...the hobbyists all go into an absolute uproar. Some in the name of conservation...though likely many of the biggest shouters don't grow any of these anyway. People just don't like the idea of being told "you can't."

 

[KafudaFish]

Mudbeaver:

What is your background and expertise regarding these species? Do you study them for a living?

Just curious.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Permits?

I am pretty sure that collection permits are not done by species, but by area? And are they even needed everywhere? I think most of the legality of any of it comes in when CITES gets involved, right? When it needs to be shipped out?

And the MOMENT any species is brought up for restriction, or banning it from the trade altogether...the hobbyists all go into an absolute uproar. Some in the name of conservation...though likely many of the biggest shouters don't grow any of these anyway. People just don't like the idea of being told "you can't."

2 of my friends are involved in the trade and know how many permits it takes to buy, transport, import, export, sell, etc of different species, regions, and different rules and laws depending on fishing laws and protection of eco system of every countries.

So when we talk those subject come up. But thats my beef with the permits and the Hobby itself. This is what i regret are hobby is doing. We have enough species we can enjoy with going after stuff that live at 6000 meters .

Mudbeaver:

What is your background and expertise regarding these species? Do you study them for a living?

Just curious.

Well my thank has a few rare species that are doing good, but now because of that, when ever their is a rare thing on the market, word gets around that i can accomodate them. But its not really true, i just accomodate and rig the system for it. I'm lucky so far.

As for these two, like i said i knew of them because they've been on the news lately and i've read a lot and i'm a quick study and they know that. But like i said, those 2 species have very specific needs.

And the odds are againts me. One eats fine particules that are cought with mucus in a comb like series of hair , the problem is it need a very specific kind of flow, particule density, and size, and no crinoids are alike, so you can see the problem there.

The basket has and even worst problem its a primary jellyfish predator. It does eat other things. But it catches its food at night with its hooks , and eats it during the day. unfortunatly , in the tank i have shrimps, and you know shrimps. They'll go and steal the food from the star before it can eat. If it happens i don't know.

I'll supplements with oysters and other foods, but its a gamble. And this is what peeve me off. I'm giving it a go because the guy already has it. Its caught already. and my tank is all geared up for heavy feeding. I have a huge refugium with a huge amount of macro algaes to take the excess Nitrates and phosphates out plus reactors and i dose heavely because of my NPS zones, and other filter feeders that i keep.

But thats my beef with the permits and the Hobby itself. This is what i regret are hobby is doing. We have enough species we can enjoy with going after stuff that live at 6000 meters .

 

[OllieNZ]

It's not just the saltwater side either http://www.cichlidae.com/section.php?id=279

 

[billsreef]

We have enough species we can enjoy with going after stuff that live at 6000 meters .

Nothing is being caught at 6000 meters depth for the hobby.

 

[Mudbeaver]

Nothing is being caught at 6000 meters depth for the hobby.

Some of are inverts are found there, and some like the nautilus that we sadly see from time to time come to the surface , while they do not live at the surface they come to it and are caught for God know what reason we see them in the trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus

Some feather stars as i was saying come from very deep and come back up also while living at 6000 m . For what who knows? And then we catch them .

That was my angle on it.

 

[billsreef]

Some of are inverts are found there, and some like the nautilus that we sadly see from time to time come to the surface , while they do not live at the surface they come to it and are caught for God know what reason we see them in the trade.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautilus

Some feather stars as i was saying come from very deep and come back up also while living at 6000 m . For what who knows? And then we catch them .

That was my angle on it.

As you mention, the Nautilis come up to the shallows. This is at night, and when they are caught. Not in the depths. The feather stars we see in the trade inhabit the shallow reefs, they do not come up from the depths and are not caught in the depths.

 

[Mudbeaver]

As you mention, the Nautilis come up to the shallows. This is at night, and when they are caught. Not in the depths. The feather stars we see in the trade inhabit the shallow reefs, they do not come up from the depths and are not caught in the depths.

I didn't say caught at 6000 meters either in my quote i said we don't need species that lives at 6000m meaning we're not equiped to care for them. Sorry you seem to have a hard time to grasp my meaning here.

The point being we have other thing to put in are tanks that are surface dwellers, not from the depts like those things i was talking about. And that are somehow put in the trade for a death sentence basicaly.

 

[Puffyluv]

I think a lot of us may be having a hard time grasping your meaning...I'm still trying to figure out who it would be that would regulate collection permits per species. Since that would be flat out impossible and all.