The 'infamous' named polyps

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14723484#post14723484 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PauChi
If there's a DEMAND for these so-called Infamous Polyps or corals ... so HOW COME the PRICE doesn't come ANY CHEAPER but Steeply going upwards ...over the years? WHY
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Basic economics is the answer to your question. As demand gets higher than supply the price goes up. This is not something new.

Start adding to the supply side if you want to solve this problem. Are you doing your part?

Maybe we shouldn't demand... then there would be no supply. If it were not for people buying at high prices for these named polyps, then the supply would never grow.

This is all about how the world works folks. I think all that are hurt by the costs and the names should not buy a single polyp for a year. Maybe that will work.

BTW, i'm looking for some PPE but don't want to pay more than $4 per polyp. Any of you guys want to step up? They are not rare or LE right? Paypal ready! want 20 polyps.
 
650
i thank you for warning other regarding scammers and greedy cheapskates. there are certainly out there.
i also want to point out that most reputable vendors are not. they set the price so they can make money. they are in it for making a living.
 
Miki I agree with you on that point. Btw- 680 gallons? is that one tank or a couple put together?

I hope no one really thinks I'm after anyone, It's a disucssion only as as that. Sometimes the way your write sometimes gets taken differnetly as what you meant. Compared to talking to people face to face. Yeah know? I aim really like I said to help folks here, make some reefer buddies etc...
 
7.5' x 5' x 30". my wife said this is like a mistress. no, its more like a second wife, much more expansive to keep.
 
Not sure if we should jump in here but from a vendor's perspective:

Why do we name zoos? Simple, it's to identify them. Names do get crazy because we get creative/excited when we see unique colors. For example, we named a new one Fruity Pepples because they looked like Fruity Pepples. If we named it a letter or number like 4555, that would just get confusing. When it comes time to ship or discuss coral 4566, 7777, 8990, what would likely happen? Transposed numbers or likely confusion.

What are Limited Edition Corals? It is supply and demand, as well as -- how much did we acquire it for, how long does it take to grow, how long would it take to acquire or grow again if we sold out. If we have 10 frags of something but 50 people want it and takes months to grow or acquire 10 more frags, that's a rare coral.

It takes time, effort, and resources to grow and sell coral. It's not practical to sell them like they're made in China. (I'm sorry if this statement offends anyone.) We sell our inventory at a steady pace to balance supply, demand, and growth.

What will help to bring down prices? Aquaculturing. We encourage everyone to aquaculture. It helps supply the hobby. We buy from hobbyists all the time.

http://www.vividaquariums.com/coralfarmer.asp

Why do we sell frags? Hobbyists love frags for four main reasons. One, they like to watch them grow. Two, frags are lower priced than a large colony. They can get an awesome piece for a fraction of the price. Three, frags diversify their tank. And four, they hope to grow and frag themselves whereby helping propagate rare species.

This is from our perspective, being a vendor.
 
Awesome vivid...and last time I checked profit still is not a dirty four letter word..
I am a hobbiest and I have a frag tank. I love to get nice stuff grow it out, get some in my tank and a couple of friends from the area. Then my buddy that works with the frag tank and I will take frags to swaps. We sell reasonably but to read a few pages back where some of these guys talk about guys like me making a profit? Give me a break. By the time i make water buy salt do some dosing run lights and pumps I hardly make a profit but when I can sell a nice frag for a good fair market hobbyist price then I have offset our price to have it as well as passed that down the line to other hobbyist. sustainability!
I LOVE AMERICA
 
I love Vivid for entering their point of view here. That absolutely rocks.

I like the way this thread is going today, diaogue relative to the topic and no hatin' mistakes.
My personal feelings are that "money mongerers" for lack of a better word, indeed may hurt the hobby and industry. However, I feel that they also hurt the HOBBY when there is polarization in the reefing community.
To me, this is one of the "unseen" downers of the excessive greed mongering, when we're at the point when no one knows who to trust, all communication and info sharing in reefing communities stops.
I'm glad to see that's not happening here.
 
Hi Vivid!

Awesome that you did jump in, I don't think I have heard from a vendors point of view in any of these discussions, so please do get involved.

I think the 'name game' has escalated much further than identification purposes. ID'ing aside, do you think the polyps would sell for the current prices if the names were not there? do you think you could justify selling an 'orange and black palythoa' for $80 a polyp? but hey "'LE Darth Maul's younger cousin paly" sounds like it should be expensive right?

Here are my feelings on the whole LE thing...LE means 'limited edition' but to who exactly are these corals limited edition to? it's to that vendor selling frags from that particular colony right? I think the title LE has been made out to sound as if there will only EVER be that amount of frags available and that its never been around before or won't be in the hobby again. I just think the term LE is thrown out there way too loosely and while particular vendors do have a limited supply at that time, doesn't mean the hobby is limited to getting this coral from that vendor only. The terms 'LE' 'LS' and 'rare' are very misleading and to me, is to validate a high price tag...again JMHO.

Hey I have no problems with vendors that sell by the frag, I have a 12 gal nano and if it wasn't for frags there wouldn't be much variety to my tank at all :) It just seems that the word frag has changed in regards to zoa's and paly's from before when a frag was a plug covered in polyps to now where it means a single polyp... I wonder how many people have lost out because the survival rate is all or nothing? is the stability of a single polyp not greatly decreased from that of a generous frag?

I absolutley mean no disrespect whatsoever and applaud you for standing up and sharing you view, you are very welcome here :)
 
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You know it has nothing to do with the name.When is the last time you have seen anything like a purple hornet. It does not matter if you call it (turd on a stick). THAT SUCKER IS BAD!

You know they are limited (LE) to the folks that spend the money now to get them. After we nurture them , grow them, and spread them you will be welcome to invest in some (if you can find them). In a few months or a couple of years you will see them all over and the price will be less. You can thank us money grubbing jerks then that we propogated and spread them for you!
and I gaurantee most never really make a "profit"

Hope you did not invest in a 42 inch plasma tv in 2002
 
i don't think most of the reefer and collectors are fooled easily by named coral with LE tags (or any other descriptions for that matter). i suspect most of us will shop around and find that the coral in question is actually limited in supply and some are willing to pay the price for it to be the first owner. in fact, this is one of the reason this hobby is taking off last few year. more people are looking for that unique piece. this has the effect thru-out this industry, from the collector to individual reefers.
 
RUGDOG - I disagree, I think its more to do with names than we are led to believe. Regarding the infamous 'purple hornet' I've seen many polyps similar to it, in fact I recently picked up some that are the same pattern but in blue instead of purple, the frag cost me $25. Yeah they are nice (a bit too small for what I usually look for IMO) but are they worth $1000 for 5 polyps? would they be sold for that price without the hype and without the 'rare' label and if they were being sold as 'TINY purple zoanthids with green ring and skirt'?...You wrote that in a few months to a couple of years they will be priced less, why should we have to wait? I understand how RETAILING works in that they become more readily available in time thus price falls but since when has this hobby become about RETAILING?

Mikigo - You are probably right by saying most REEFERS and COLLECTORS are not fooled easily but what about NEWBIES? what about new reefers and future collectors who ARE easily fooled by named corals with LE tags? I think everyone is entitled to know both the facts and concerns that fellow reefers have experienced and that was the purpose of this thread.

Oh and no I didn't buy a plasma in 2002, but it's ag great example of RETAILING! :)

It's hard enough to get away from RC to be able to watch any TV anyways :D
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14728041#post14728041 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by RUGDOG
You know it has nothing to do with the name.When is the last time you have seen anything like a purple hornet. It does not matter if you call it (turd on a stick). THAT SUCKER IS BAD!

You know they are limited (LE) to the folks that spend the money now to get them. After we nurture them , grow them, and spread them you will be welcome to invest in some (if you can find them). In a few months or a couple of years you will see them all over and the price will be less. You can thank us money grubbing jerks then that we propogated and spread them for you!
and I gaurantee most never really make a "profit"

Hope you did not invest in a 42 inch plasma tv in 2002
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I know what you mean. Not in this case with those purple hornets but with like AOG palys. When I saw seeing people debate this, I was like, well yeah they're popular, they're the BOMB that's why! But isn't it funny that in the case of the purple hornet, I'm not feelin' it. It's too small isn't it?
I agree though those colors are my favorite color combinations. I mean you just don't see anything that color combo on your way to or from work, lol. Still wouldn't buy it though. Even IF I'd saved a few hundred to get it, I'd be too afraid too. Too small. And just one polyp is 100 bucks? And it could die like it did to an expert reefkepeeper the other day. No way, I couldn't do it.
I'd spend some of that money on some good liquor to get over it.

Also when I read the part in your post saying where you're saying "You know they are limited (LE) to the folks that spend the money now to get them." Let's take just the word "they" from that sentence because that's the word I'm focusing on.
So...are you saying that we all know that PH (or whatever "LE" zoas or palys) zoas are only being enjoyed by the folks who buy them first as an LE.
And then those folks who bought them give some to others?
Well, but i'm like, what about the folks who have them
before or at the same time the vendors on line got some?
Where are they at in this scenario? The Moon? :p

And lastly, yes, I agree with above poster, what about newbies like myself.
 
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<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14727033#post14727033 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dalston

Here are my feelings on the whole LE thing...LE means 'limited edition' but to who exactly are these corals limited edition to? it's to that vendor selling frags from that particular colony right? I think the title LE has been made out to sound as if there will only EVER be that amount of frags available and that its never been around before or won't be in the hobby again. I just think the term LE is thrown out there way too loosely and while particular vendors do have a limited supply at that time, doesn't mean the hobby is limited to getting this coral from that vendor only. The terms 'LE' 'LS' and 'rare' are very misleading and to me, is to validate a high price tag...again JMHO.
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I :thumbsup: That !!

How does one define as being Limited Edition ... anything under 5 or 10 frags of the same specimen collected overall in North America .. or should I say in America??

Paul
 
since when has this hobby become about RETAILING?

Pretty much always has been as with most things in our lives. Unless you live by the reef and go collecting.

why should we have to wait?

most things about this hobby revolve around patience and waiting (cycle, slowly adding, waiting for growth and filling in)

Sorry I dont want to seem to be negative or bashing you. I am just coming from the perspective of a hobbyst who loves to watch my frag tank and tend my little garden. I will not pay the price for a lot of the things we are talking about. If I can go to a frag swap and sell some nice frags that people want at a good fair and cheaper than retail price then everyone benefits. Then I can take my little money and re-invest in nicer things, grow them and start the process over again. I dont like to pay 10$ a polyp for tiny blue zoas but they are blue which you dont see a lot and untill everyone has one that wants it demand will be high as well as price and IMHO it does not matter what you call it.
I am in the floor covering business. If you come in one of my showrooms looking for the nice new shag people want today it is more expensive than the berbers that everyone wanted 10 or 15 years ago but I can cut you some smokin deals on some berber right now.

Hey thanks for listening. Cant watch my 50inch dlp that I paid 3 times for 6 years ago than it costs today for staring in my tanks all evening. My family thinks I am nuts. :)
 
To me a LE. is DEEMED really Limited Edition like a Ferrari where they ONLY make a 1000 of a specific model PERIOD. Not a LE where Dalston mentioned is thrown VERY LOOSELY in this hobby. Like I said it before and I say it again, how can 1 coral be deemed LE when your have 100's-1000s of LFS/Vendors and 100,000+ hobbyist have the SAME Limited Edition piece. Is that still really limited edition? IF you still think so why? Cause it hold the LE tag on it? Cause some says so?

Names used to be a IDENTIFICATION to me but the minute it became THE TOOL to justify a specific polyps price that importance of the name killed it for me... I'm not getting into this part as its a loosing battle same as price/polyp.

Like I mentioned in other posts, I now buy for color/pattern/ and looks. I don't bother really with names or status like LE anymore at all.
 
:beer: Absolutely 650. That's what I meant above...

If I bought recieved some Palys in Nov 2009 and gave some to three people, and then two months later two vendors and two people here on RC obtained some of the same and began to sell them to people. Or Steve Tyree gets them into his tank. Pretty soon we see the palys online. Everyone's dying to buy them but there a little steep in price.
Now, here's the question.....Who has the Limited Edition? IS it a limited edition?

Is it a limited edition now that 45 people have them before they were being sold on line for 40.00 per polyp?
Not a limited edition to me. Because now 150 people have them. And when some grow out, more people will have some. And say this continues for months and months.

Are they LE (Limited Edition) now?
No. I don't believe so. LE is marketing nomenclature which may or may not be true.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14730222#post14730222 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 650-IS350
To me a LE. is DEEMED really Limited Edition like a Ferrari where they ONLY make a 1000 of a specific model PERIOD. Not a LE where Dalston mentioned is thrown VERY LOOSELY in this hobby. Like I said it before and I say it again, how can 1 coral be deemed LE when your have 100's-1000s of LFS/Vendors and 100,000+ hobbyist have the SAME Limited Edition piece. Is that still really limited edition? IF you still think so why? Cause it hold the LE tag on it? Cause some says so?
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BAM!!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14730372#post14730372 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IridescentLily


Not a limited edition to me. Because now 150 people have them.

Are they LE (Limited Edition) now?
No. I don't believe so. LE is marketing nomenclature which may or may not be true.
Click to expand...
BAM again!!
 
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