The 'infamous' named polyps

[roblack]

Wouldn't be surprised if someone starts selling frags as TLE or ELE (Truly Limited Edition and Extremely Limited Edition), in response to threads like this one and complaints of the sort. Really is just semantics. Calling a coral LE obviously means different things to different people. Doesn't mean that there are only a given number of frags going to be made. Just means someone liked a coral enough to name it, at least that is what it means to me. Someone here might want to start "certifying" corals to their exact specifications, thereby alleviating the confusion to newbies and oldies alike. Heard of the Tang Police, I think the LE Police have arrived! I've had a good time debating with ya'll, wish you luck with your reefs and happiness in your experiences. Don't let the LE phenomena get you too bothered. Oh, you're welcome to sell me some PH lookalikes for dirt cheap too! :bum:

 

[650-IS350]

I also think COLLECTORS hold on tightly to that LE/lineage thing since if it goes away there collection, what it means and its worth isn't what it is anymore. Just an opinion. Don't mean to insult anyone with this.

 

[650-IS350]

Rob, I think polyp folks just want to be fully educated in the whole LE/Lineage/Rare etc.. things? LE Police, I truly doubt that. You wouldn't see folks line up to go to the SPS/LPS forums and police folks on that stuff, that's those guys/gals thing. That's your guys thing, we just want to understand the whole phenomenon.

I see all your points here and Appreciate all the come to this thread and voice their OPINIONS as this is a FORUM after all. Like you said before Rob, where all in this together right and this is all our hobby and want to make it better. And when it comes down to it, its just opinions/discussions and should never be taken to heart.

 

[VividAquariums]

Thank you for welcoming our point of view as a vendor.

I see where everyone's coming from and the confusion on what limited edition means. Let me define it. LE corals is not the same as an LE poster or car because corals can be grown in captivity, fragged and resold. You can't grow a poster or car so there's not really the same parallel there. You will never be able to say you are one of 5 owners of a particular LE coral.

At first a very limited number of people grow them, a very limited number of people have them, but lots of people want them. We will pay top dollar, even retail for rare or LE coral just to have them, so we can add them to our collection to grow. So yes, people have them and multiple suppliers carry them but the demand significantly exceeds the supply.

My advice if you don't want to pay rare coral prices, wait it out until enough people grow and sell them and the supply meets or exceeds the demand. Or trade. I promise you there is not a vast conspiracy on LE or rare coral.

As far as zoo naming, can we try this experiment? Let's say you had twenty zoos in front of you and your job is to name them. Pick any website and look at twenty zoos. Now name them. Any name you want. Will you name based on color, lineage, what the colors remind you of? Let's see what names you come up with. It's hard and time consuming coming up with names after awhile, right? I don't think people buy based on names. It's based on what they really like. And again price is based on supply and demand, not names. Some names get alot of recognition but not because of the name. There's something about that zoo or coral that a significant number of people find very appealing. If people do buy based on name, I don't think the numbers are significant enough to affect price. From our experience, they are buying based on the coral or zoo itself. We see way more customers come in our shop excited about color than names - if ever.

Pricing - If you were a business owner with all the expenses that go with owning a store and you had ten very unique frags. And this is all you have of this coral for three months and you've combed the web, other stores, and suppliers for it so you know only a handful of vendors have it. Say fifty people want it. In that fifty people, the bottom ten want to pay $20 bucks and the top twenty of the 50 are willing to pay $50 and everyone else is in between, what would you sell it at? Definitely not at a loss. Is this 'retailing'? Yes. We are a retail store.

Lastly, most, if not all, aquarium shop owners, online or not are not rich people. There is alot of expense and work into owning a store. If there is a vast pricing conspiracy, it's not working.

 

[650-IS350]

Vivid, I really do appreciate you coming in here, voicing your opinion and giving insight on the LE thing, your opinion on the polyp naming etc. Its good to see a vendor take their time and join a discussion.

wait it out until enough people grow and sell them and the supply meets or exceeds the demand. Or trade.
Agree. sux that you have to wait a long time just to get a nice piece not to pay outrageous prices,

 

[PauChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14731698#post14731698 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by 650-IS350

wait it out until enough people grow and sell them and the supply meets or exceeds the demand. Or trade.
Agree. sux that you have to wait a long time just to get a nice piece not to pay outrageous prices,

Plus the painfully agonizing long waiting lists .....

Paul

 

[Skeptic_07]

Without reading the entire thread: I agree that giving the different morph names is a catalyst for higher prices, but it is certainly not the cause of it. The cause of it is money.

Whenever you have an economy such as this, greed inevitably comes into play. Some polyps are desirable to more reefers than others and many are found more often than others, but the real culprit is not the names, it is the community itself. People seem to always want to divide everything up and classify and label things. It seems like this is in our nature. Everything around you is labeled and given some value. For example, what are you staring at right now? A monitor, of course. But is it a NEC or is it an ACER, maybe Samsung, viewsonic or apple? Does it have the same value as every other monitor in existence? Of course not. There are very few things in this world that are not classified by people. Also, very few things that cost the same amount across the board no matter where it came from or what type it is. People even classify themselves in many many ways: race, religion, occupation, sports teams, diet, lifestyle, sexual orientation, etc... A really good debate is if this desire for 'separatism' is inborn human nature or if it is learned behavior but thats a whole different argument. ( i know i'm not using Separatism in the normal sense of the word but it works here metaphorically)

IMO all types of polyps should be priced according to how much the rock they are on cost to harvest and import or in the case of aquaculture how much the piece cost to grow, plus a fair profit margin to keep things running. Of course, this is not the case. Pricing is determined by how much money will be paid for them and the name of self preservation wholesalers, LFS owners, online sellers and hobbyist reefers alike will charge more for the polyps that they feel people will pay more for. I don't hold it against them. At the end of the day there is a finite amount of these polyps and there has to be something to dictate who gets what. Lets say tomorrow some coral farmer in Indonesia finds some never-before-seen polyps from some far off reef nobody has ever seen or heard of. What dictates which reefer gets these to put in their tank first? Probably the one who will pay the most for them, right? It won't matter if the guy has a 10,000 gallon system or a nano cube. Just like anything else, the guy with who will pay the big $$ will walk away with it.

Money is money no matter how you slice it and everyone needs it to survive. It is the main flaw of the monetary system as a whole and greed is inevitable because of that fact. I hate it, and wish there could be a way for the human race to live in some kind of utopian society where all things, including polyps, would be free, but i don't see that happening any time soon. Until then people are going to continue to classify things and assess values to them and we will have to live with high prices. It sucks but that is just the way it is.

 

[650-IS350]

Thanks Skeptic.... I hear you loud and clear.

Which is why I'm fearful once more get the deepwaters you'll start seeing them with names and sold by polyp like the rest have been the past few years.

You will rarely see really nice polyps with NAMES sold as colonies anymore.

This week is my last week of getting / paying for zoa as I'm done with my collecting. Mostly growing everything out now and do more for my club and contribute to the DBTC and pass my polyps around to others with the condition that they only be grown to be passes and shared NOT BE SOLD>

 

[IridescentLily]

I noticed this a couple months ago and just last week 650. Deepwater zoanthids but also LPS like Lobophyllia and such. Very bright coloration and fluorescence in the ones i've seen on line.
I wonder if being deepwater they have different pigments, etc.
I hope the cost for these animals isn't through the roof.

 

[gutter]

Re: The 'infamous' named polyps

(old timer rant)
I had a tank crash about 4 years ago and have just been doing FOWLR since, now i'm getting back into reefing. I'm kind of shocked at the silly names and prices for zoas now (upwards of 200 bucks for a color that wasnt even that interesting on one website). I used to just buy amazing frags for like 5 bucks off some dude on here, and there'd be freebees included. I also noticed a lot of people seem to be having problems with the white fungus phenomina or whatever, that would scare me out of paying very much for them right there, never heard of anyone having it back in the day.

 

[650-IS350]

Thanks for chimming in gutter.

 

[dalston]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14733173#post14733173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IridescentLily
I noticed this a couple months ago and just last week 650. Deepwater zoanthids but also LPS like Lobophyllia and such. Very bright coloration and fluorescence in the ones i've seen on line.
I wonder if being deepwater they have different pigments, etc.
I hope the cost for these animals isn't through the roof.

Don't be surprised that after all the hype I have been hearing about these deepwater and Japanese zoas that the pimping will begin

 

[650-IS350]

Welps, I think I'm done with this thread now, I've said enough people seen enough... so I'll go one with other threads..

 

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14735053#post14735053 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by dalston
Don't be surprised that after all the hype I have been hearing about these deepwater and Japanese zoas that the pimping will begin

I know I was also wondering that. Just last night when gazing at a deepwater lobo on a vendor site *ahem*, I wondered to myself if anyone would hop on that gravy train when it comes around heh heh. Not the vendor i was looking at I didn't feel. But I wouldn't be shocked if I saw that everywhere else, let's put it that way. I guess because these things don't change overnight and it'll be a little while before the deepwater lawn animals coming in increases I would imagine anyway.

I'd at least expect (hope?) these animals would only start coming in after people know they can maintain and sustain them in captivity by regular hobbyists. I would imagine these animals are different to maintain in an aquarium to some degree than the ones we beginner hobbyists have been used to.
I mean, maybe Dr. Borneman et al can or would be able to , but i'm talking about the general lawn gnome buying public. I think it's interesting to read above about the white fungus. I wouldn't be surprised at that either if that were the case.

At least now that I'm more aware of things I can watch that parade go by. And then like some here have said, I can also watch as the prices go down (to some extent) afterwards.
Again, I know not all hobbyists will sell them to anyone and thank God we have those folks and long time, more experienced people.

And to end my long post lol, I'll end by saying that I'm also aware (and admire) that some fellow forum members here,some local reef club peeps, and some vendors, are reef responsible as far as the animals themselves are concerned.
That's where my money, and if not money, my gratitude, is going to go. I'm starting to make more typos so that means I need to stop typing/talking now, lol.
Thanks.

 

[IridescentLily]

It was funny the first time. However now i see that i typed the word "lawn gnome" (twice) in a post here instead of typing the word "animals" as I wanted to.
And I also typed "Deepwater lawn animal" instead of "deepwater animal" as I wanted to. What in God's name is that all about lol? Clearly I can't translate, check my daughter's book project, and wash clothes all at the same time. During early morning hours at that. :lol:

Also I wonder if someone may be playing April Fool's jokes.
Today IS April 1st. When "April" is your first name in English you become the lucky recipient of more than a few jokes each April Fool's day since a young age. I'm paranoid about it now :rollface:

I think it may even be more than the above, which may be responsible for any of my typos this evening.
Like maybe possible keyboard "gnomes" in my home.
Or good looking Reef Central Admins.
Deepwater lawn animal indeed, rotf.

And Melev, or Marc, (you said I could call you Marc tonight), when you explained to me about your being a male stripper..oh my. *fans self to cool down*.
Regardless, I do apologize for all the ridiculous typos I may really have done in various threads here earlier (for whatever reason).

Though I did ask some cute site admin tonight to edit my typos.



Need to catch some sleep..

 

[Skipper]

I thought this was about zoanthids, not lawn gnomes!!!??? :lol:

 

[PauChi]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14733173#post14733173 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by IridescentLily
I noticed this a couple months ago and just last week 650. Deepwater zoanthids but also LPS like Lobophyllia and such. Very bright coloration and fluorescence in the ones i've seen on line.
I wonder if being deepwater they have different pigments, etc.
I hope the cost for these animals isn't through the roof.

Yesterday I was at my LFS to view some of over 100 colonies of Deepwater Zoas and mind you I was one of the First Three reefers to pop by and view 'thru them ... slowly!!
Colors were vivid and awesome .... imagine Yellow skirts with Orange center and Black mouths ... fair sized polyps as well


Paul

 

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14736674#post14736674 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Skipper
I thought this was about zoanthids, not lawn gnomes!!!??? :lol:

Yes, and I also typed "wreath" central last night Skipper.
Wreath Central folks.
While Marc (Melev) was on line.
I have to think of some way to bribe him to put it back to reef central, because when i look at the rc logo now when I log in, i wanna...just....faint.
And I'm not sure but i think he loves that. :lol:

He mentioned something about "getting on one's knees"...so i'll ask him what that's all about today.

 

[650-IS350]

Yesterday I was at my LFS to view some of over 100 colonies of Deepwater Zoas and mind you I was one of the First Three reefers to pop by and view 'thru them ... slowly!! I don't like you anymore :lol:

 

[IridescentLily]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14737344#post14737344 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by PauChi
Yesterday I was at my LFS to view some of over 100 colonies of Deepwater Zoas and mind you I was one of the First Three reefers to pop by and view 'thru them ... slowly!!
Colors were vivid and awesome .... imagine Yellow skirts with Orange center and Black mouths ... fair sized polyps as well
Paul

Wow, yellow skirts, orange centers and black mouths.
I can imagine how gorgeous they are.