The Life Reef Skimmer Club

[ct_vol]

The issue could become that you are now flowing too much through your skimmer for your size tank.

Is there a grid/chart for optimal gph per gallons in system somewhere I've missed? I'm new to these types of skimmers, but intrigued enough that I bought a couple used Lifereefs to tinker around with before I take the $1k plunge and have one built for me.

I have a bunch of Panworlds to play around with. Spoke to Jeff at MTC and he said ideal pass through rate is somewhere between 1.5/2x total volume for his skimmers.

Cleaned up my VS2 a couple days ago threw it on an Eheim Compact 5000. Had to take off to St. Louis for work the following morning. We'll see how it has done beside my ATB the past few days when I get home this evening. It hadn't pulled anything overnight, but I imagine that is from the undersized pump and the fact that it went straight from vinegar bath/rinse to work. I hope to hook it up to my other system sometime this weekend.

 

[ct_vol]

Pressure rated refers to the gph at particular heights or, if a manufacturer does not supply the graph they may simply refer to max. head pressure for the pump. So, yes submersible pumps are "pressure rated." The question becomes how much pressure does my venturi skimmer (Life Reef of course!) need to be efficient.

I think the question is more two fold. What is the optimal flow through rate and how much pressure is needed for optimal air draw from the venturi???

From my research on the topic, you can have the same gph flow through rate, but better venturi air draw from pressure rated pumps. It would appear some oversize their feed pump instead of going pressure rated and to combine for better performance...

Of course all of this is purely speculative for me as I just bought my Lifereefs to play around with. Everything sounds good in theory, but we'll see how it works once put to practice on our own systems.

 

[Lavoisier]

I think the question is more two fold. What is the optimal flow through rate and how much pressure is needed for optimal air draw from the venturi???

From my research on the topic, you can have the same gph flow through rate, but better venturi air draw from pressure rated pumps. It would appear some oversize their feed pump instead of going pressure rated and to combine for better performance...

Of course all of this is purely speculative for me as I just bought my Lifereefs to play around with. Everything sounds good in theory, but we'll see how it works once put to practice on our own systems.

The pressure is a function of the flow through a particular diameter at a particular height. Most of us have a head of only a foot or two so that will not be hugely significant. We may get into calculating trouble if the outlet on the pump we are considering is smaller than the pipe into the skimmer. Jeff knows his skimmers and has recommended pumps for each. If we decide not to use his recommended pump we should match our alternative to his specifications. We can do that by matching up the pressure ratings. If the pump you are considering only comes with a max head rating you may want to contact the manufacturer for the graph...just be sure the outlet sizes are the same or do the appropriate calculations to convert.

 

[ct_vol]

The pressure is a function of the flow through a particular diameter at a particular height. Most of us have a head of only a foot or two so that will not be hugely significant. We may get into calculating trouble if the outlet on the pump we are considering is smaller than the pipe into the skimmer. Jeff knows his skimmers and has recommended pumps for each. If we decide not to use his recommended pump we should match our alternative to his specifications. We can do that by matching up the pressure ratings. If the pump you are considering only comes with a max head rating you may want to contact the manufacturer for the graph...just be sure the outlet sizes are the same or do the appropriate calculations to convert.

My understanding of Pressure Rated pumps is that they handle the load of back pressure with more ease and therefor can be more efficient when a venturi is in play requiring a higher demand from the pump. The unknown would be how much pressure loss occurs by having a venturi. The loss in pressure would effect gph flow through rates. I would imagine that the pressure loss would be different between the standard venturi or for the different Mazzei's for that matter.

I'm not saying Jeff is wrong by any stretch. Just stating there is a lot to be considered in the science of matching skimmer height, venturi, and pump use.

 

[ken6217]

Is there a grid/chart for optimal gph per gallons in system somewhere I've missed? I'm new to these types of skimmers, but intrigued enough that I bought a couple used Lifereefs to tinker around with before I take the $1k plunge and have one built for me.

I have a bunch of Panworlds to play around with. Spoke to Jeff at MTC and he said ideal pass through rate is somewhere between 1.5/2x total volume for his skimmers.

Cleaned up my VS2 a couple days ago threw it on an Eheim Compact 5000. Had to take off to St. Louis for work the following morning. We'll see how it has done beside my ATB the past few days when I get home this evening. It hadn't pulled anything overnight, but I imagine that is from the undersized pump and the fact that it went straight from vinegar bath/rinse to work. I hope to hook it up to my other system sometime this weekend.

You are mixing apples and oranges in talking about the flow through a LR skimmer and an MTC skimmer.

When MTC says that you should have 1.5-2x flow through the skimmer, he is referring to the feed pump that takes the water to and from the skimmer. This is a recirculating skimmer and the pump for the venturi(s) is a separate pump.

The LR skimmer uses one pump. If you ran 1.5-2x the tank volume through the venturi you would probably have no bubbles at all.
Ken

 

[ct_vol]

You are mixing apples and oranges in talking about the flow through a LR skimmer and an MTC skimmer.

When MTC says that you should have 1.5-2x flow through the skimmer, he is referring to the feed pump that takes the water to and from the skimmer. This is a recirculating skimmer and the pump for the venturi(s) is a separate pump.

The LR skimmer uses one pump. If you ran 1.5-2x the tank volume through the venturi you would probably have no bubbles at all.
Ken

I understand this. That is why I would think that there should be some type of ideal flow rate for each LR skimmer according to size and venturi. With recirc skimmers the flow through rate isn't effected by the venturi. This is what has me leaning toward buying a MTC instead of a LR when I go new.

I guess the way to measure the loss of pressure from the venturi would be to take the delta of what the pump should be performing at according manufacturer's performance curves and the gph flow output from the skimmer...

The posts that got me thinking about this were a few pages back when bayoupr stated he got better performance from non-pressure rated pumps.

Or perhaps I'm being overly analytic and should just accept things for what they are.

 

[shaggss]

Cleaned up my VS2 a couple days ago threw it on an Eheim Compact 5000. Had to take off to St. Louis for work the following morning. We'll see how it has done beside my ATB the past few days when I get home this evening. It hadn't pulled anything overnight, but I imagine that is from the undersized pump and the fact that it went straight from vinegar bath/rinse to work. I hope to hook it up to my other system sometime this weekend.

I've got the same skimmer, though it's still in the box, but Jeff said the eheim compact 5000 would be fine. The pump rating for the skimmer is 600-1200GPH. The eheim 5000 is rated up to 1300GPH. I hope it's ok?!

 

[Lavoisier]

I've got the same skimmer, though it's still in the box, but Jeff said the eheim compact 5000 would be fine. The pump rating for the skimmer is 600-1200GPH. The eheim 5000 is rated up to 1300GPH. I hope it's ok?!

Pay attention to what Jeff says :spin1:

 

[bayoupr]

OK, I'll chime in. My lifereef skimmers with the Mazzei 1078 venturi have always run better with the Panworld 100PX (Blueline 40HD) than the recommended higher flow pump (Panworld 100PX-X or the Blueline Equal). The pressure rated pumps handle the small orifice in the ventrui better than the higher flow less pressure rated pumps. When I have to open the gate valve more with the higher pressure rated this tells me that I am getting more flow and I know more air draw (dwyer air meter) through the skimmer. This is my real world experience with these skimmers, IMO.

 

[Kharn]

I can't wait to get my VS3-72 I've used LifeReef products over the years even though I'm on the other side of the world, I frequently preach about the workmanship of Jeff and for utterly shattering an all to common myth.

Originally I was after a HOB overflow but countless reviews and reads told me it wasn't a good idea, due to their fail rates etc etc. but I got 1 off Jeff @ LifeReef and for the past 6yrs has never failed...I actually now have 9 all up actively running 0 fails.

So impressed with his work that we aim to effectively replace all current equipment with LifeReef, specifically the Skimmer(s).

 

[bayoupr]

The 72" is a Kick Butt skimmer. A lot of contact time. How big is your system?

 

[Kharn]

The 72" is a Kick Butt skimmer. A lot of contact time. How big is your system?

System is about 400Gals.

 

[bayoupr]

Should work great on your system. Let us know when you get it and set it up.

 

[Kharn]

Should work great on your system. Let us know when you get it and set it up.

It's a large system but the actual bio life within it is quite small / limited.

But I have learned from past mistakes (skimmers to small).

It's an elaborate 6 tank display, but each tank is either divided in half or quarters, within each "quarter/half" is a stomatopod, no other 'display' bio life.

1 of the 2 sumps is being setup to host around 6-8 of the 8x8x4inch marine pure blocks, which will act as the live rock.

EDIT: Due to the unique nature of the system and that which is accommodating it along with the methods of....feeding. There are only really 4 major areas of filtration that we are concerned with.

#1 - Huge Skimmer.
#2 - Large Reactor (for carbon).
#3 - 8x8x4inch Marine Pure Blocks (as many as sump will host 6-8).
#4 - Filter Sock.

Beyond that anything else for a Stomatopod is luxury.

EDIT EDIT: Only other area really targeted is overall turn over, planning for a 16,500LPH Laguna Pump + every Display Tank has full coast to coast overflows with multiple outputs (4 per tank) & input returns (4 per tank).

 

[JasonD]

System is about 400Gals.

I was reading a thread where one Ozzie reefer was getting worms that bore through his silicon joints. Have you experienced this?

 

[Kharn]

I was reading a thread where one Ozzie reefer was getting worms that bore through his silicon joints. Have you experienced this?

Never but sounds strange I actually have a tank that would be a key "candidate" for that to happen to currently ?

2 of my current tanks are really...unique, dimension wise they are 48"long and 30" deep however they are only 6" wide (yes 15cm) and to make it more weird they are actually 2/3rd's filled with just sand...(these tanks are for Giant Spearers that burrow in the sand).

But I have never noticed any structural problem with my tanks .

 

[rEeFnWrX]

Jeff knows his skimmers and has recommended pumps for each. If we decide not to use his recommended pump we should match our alternative to his specifications.

If you talk to Jeff and ask him. He will tell you he had to choose pumps to offer. The pumps he chose he felt are cost effective with known history for being reliable and are within a good performing range for flow through the skimmers.

he also said that in no way are these set in stone and to feel free to use different pumps with different ratings. He personally uses a mag12 on his svs2-24 but sells the mag9 by default with them.

 

[Lavoisier]

If you talk to Jeff and ask him. He will tell you he had to choose pumps to offer. The pumps he chose he felt are cost effective with known history for being reliable and are within a good performing range for flow through the skimmers.

he also said that in no way are these set in stone and to feel free to use different pumps with different ratings. He personally uses a mag12 on his svs2-24 but sells the mag9 by default with them.

Good to know.

 

[Snook65]

After many many years my Little Giant pump that runs my VS2-24 skimmer would not start back up today after a water change. I barely feel a slight movement going on inside the pump. I have a replacement lying around, but I think I will order one of the Blueline 30-HDX from Jeff. Since the Little Giant has a 1" female input and the Blueline has a 1" threaded male input I guess I will need to order a 1" adapter? It will be interesting to see if the Bluelines are quieter than the LGs.

 

[coffeetwitch]

i moved my tank this weekend to give me the room i needed to accommodate the added height of the 6" extension and 8" diameter collection cup effectively making my skimmer a 36" model. (still wish i would have bought the 48" model) at the current moment im still using the mag 12 to run the skimmer. the skimmer is also now external. ive got about 3 feet of head height. but when i get around to drilling my sump i can reduce that to about 2.5 feet. ive been looking at the blueline pump if for no other reason than they are what jeff sells on his site. i was looking at the 40hd-x but re-reading some of these posts im looking at the standard 40 hd or the 55 hd because of them being pressure rated. still no clue what to do for a pump. i also ordered a 1078 mazzei that will hopefully be delivered this week. fyi the mag 12 seems to be working ok but i would really like to get the most out of this set up.