The Moorish Idol Thread

[zfunk007]

Very interesting points everyone. Thats great that you have had such success with breeding KDodds.

Sorry to hear about your Idol eatting the corals too!... I suspect that when they dont get enough nutrition they resort to eatting anything they can.... this is sad, and unfortunate!!!

Your right Shawn!! It just occurred to me. I have been sick with the flu for the past week and got lazy about feeding my fish. I have just been giving them the spectrum pellets a few times a day. That could be the reason why my Idol started attacking all my corals this week. Can't believe I didn't think of this before...

Either way though, I am getting him out today (and my Regal just to be safe) and putting them in my 110 for the time being. Since I am diving almost every day now I am just going to keep getting sponge and very small pieces of live rock (legal size 1" square) with sponge on them and scatter them all over my 110 for him to pick at whenever he wants. Hopefully this will help him.

Right now its just going to be the 2 of them in the 110. I took the Broomtail out and put him into QT to make sure he is ich free so he doesn't infect the Idol.

As of right now he still looks great. Lets hope he stays that way.

 

[traveller7]

Zfunk,

You seem to have a perfect opportunity to keep your specimen in an environment that it can graze closer to a natural setting. IMHO, remove your other fish, frag your corals, and search for other suitable juvenile Moorish Idols to add to your 210. Who knows, you may be closer to breeding MI's then you think.

Side note: It was not so long ago that keeping Percs and Maroons were a challenge, much less to be considered passé when breeding in diseased condition Certainly, my WC ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œsick breedersââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ look a sight healthier then most I see in other tanks, but they do have an ailment which will eventually wear them down and possibly kill them. A ââ"šÂ¬Ã…"œnon-diseasedââ"šÂ¬Ã‚ equivalent specimen in another tank fed merely to survival has nothing known to prevent it from living 10+ years.

PS: isopods, nematodes, flukes, etc., could also care less about the "breeding condition" of the fish and in cases of a populated environment, the size of the environment.

 

[KDodds]

Good points Scott, but there are hurdles that have been overcome. Mostly, that meant keeping fish at NSW levels and feeding an appropriate diet, IMO, but certainly collection and shipping methods have improved as well. Be that as it may, WC or CB, these two Clown species are a far sight from MIs or other "difficult" species.

I'm not sure what you mean by the "size of the environment" in reference to parasites. It's not the parasites that are in question, but the fishes' compromised immune systems in inappropriate environments. IOW, take a human comparison. E. coli naturally exists within all of us. Too much, and we get sick. Or maybe we don't. Maybe it takes another stressor to compromise our immune systems enough for us not to be able to handle a given organism and keep ourselves symptom-free. In this case, teh rpesence of the organism is not a disease, nor are we guaranteed to develop undesirable symptoms. We, in essence, are not sick just because E. coli is present. Same, IMO, holds true for fish, whatever the pathogen. Just because a pathogen is present doesn't mean a fish is ill. If it remains asymptomatic, it is likely thanks to care surpassing and nullifying any stressors that would compromise the immune system. My suggesting isolation for sick Clowns in a breeding pair is meant to remove the stress of breeding, which might be just enough to allow the fish to make a full and rapid recovery. But the male changing to female still remains a problem.

 

[traveller7]

Agreed on improvements in numerous hobbyist areas over the years Kieron. IME hurdles are easier to jump in a serial fashion as opposed to parallel.

Sizes of environment is frequently a stressor for many of our specimens, especially in relation to how we still collect, transport, wholesale, retail, improperly QT, and ultimately house them.

Studies have been done on density of population impacting effectiveness of parasitic infection down to a level the parasites are ineffective at re-infection. Unfortunately, I am not sure they have completely eliminated the variable, of developed fish "immunity" within the host species, which has also been demonstrated. Aquaculture facilities have been the best source I have found for such studies.

Presence of pathogens is precisely the issue I am concerned with in regard to MI's. We have yet to confirm required diet, system size, innate susceptibility, etc., and have no basis to assume "stress" elimination has been achieved. Certainly cannot asssume such by adding them to a pre-populated reef tank.

It is merely my opinion we are more likely to find success if we divide the Moorish Idol from as many variables as possible by placing it in a well established reef tank that has been fishless for an extended period of time. Analogous to quarantine in your safe, sound, well appointed home with well stocked fridge as opposed to a "sterile" hospital room.

My apologies for beating a dead horse, obviously an experience or two has inflamed the passion. My appreciation to the group for demonstrated tolerance.

 

[KDodds]

Not at all. IMO, you can never learn too much and no discussion is too old that something can't be learned.

I happen to agree with you in the case of QT for MIs. IF they are to be QT'd, along with other "touchy" species. It should definitely be in a "reef like" tank, minus the inverts, should medication be necessary (still no Cu please, some fish are too sensitive, MIs included). I would not even dream of moving an Idol from a barren LFS tank into a barren QT, too risky, IMO. But I don't have a spare established 6' FOWLR laying around either, nor do I think most aquarists, even if they COULD spare the room and operating expense.

I'm still leery of the secondary acclimation out of QT, tho.

 

[traveller7]

But I don't have a spare established 6' FOWLR laying around either

Would you or the group chance a school of juveniles in an 80gal(4 foot base)? My only experience with MI was a single specimen from '82-'85 in a 55gal. Death presumed due to waning attention of youth.

I'm still leery of the secondary acclimation out of QT, tho.

Me too. My experience with A. chrysopterus after extended isolation have met with failure each time I have attempted to move them into a multi-pair breeder system. I have resigned myself to keeping them isolated permanently instead of banging my head on the ground.

 

[zfunk007]

Well I finally ripped apart the tank today and got the Idol out (along with the Regal Angel as well). He is now in my 110 FOWLR. He seemed fine once I put him in. Catching him was quite the challenge though! Out of the 200 and something pounds of live rock in my tank, more than half of it came out... ugh.

Anyway, at least my corals can live now in peace. And the Idol gets almost an entire tank to himself. He will also get more food because there will be virtually no competition. So we'll see how it goes in the next few days...

 

[Shawnts106]

Good too hear that you got him out ok... It didnt dammage his beautiful streamer did it???


Let us know how he is...

as for mine, its official.. I talked to my friend the other day and told him whats going on... he said he would take him !

so now the MI is getting a HUGE new home... of 300 gallons!!!

 

[Paul B]

Today while doing some maintenance I noticed my Idol has a bad case of Pop eye. As you know, they have large eyes anyway so now it is really big. I can cure it in a few seconds if I could catch him. I will try in the morning in the dark. I have always lost them when they stopped eating but in three decades I have never had one with Pop eye but there was one a couple of weeks ago in the LFS with it. I went there to treat it but he was sold. Probably very cheaply.
Have a great day.
Paul

 

[Paul B]

OK, I got him. I fed him like I always do with a Kind of turkey baster (almost but better) I caught him and with a hypodermic I sucked out a lot of fluid behind his eye. He looks normal now and within two minutes I fed him a clam and he is as happy as a clam.
I will see tomorrow if he needs another treatment. Don't worry, I have done this dozens of times and so far never lost one of my fish or one from a wholesaler.
I have before and after pictures I will see if I can post them soon.
Paul

 

[Paul B]

PS I also know that he could be dead by tomorrow, depending on the reason he got pop eye in the first place.
Paul

 

[Paul B]

here he is with the pop eye. Don't worry he looks normal now.
Paul

 

[CrazyLionfish]

how do you catch him? by hand?

 

[Paul B]

I fed him by hand and I had a large net ready. I got him near the surface and stuck the net under him. He is totally back to normal now, so far.
paul

 

[Paul B]

His Pop eye was much better today but not totally gone so I gave him another treatment. he again looks completely normal. If it comes back tomorrow i will have to inject some antibiotic behind his eye. Unfortunately I don't have any at this time. You can't just walk into a drug store and ask for some drugs for a fish although I used to be friends with a chemist, he moved away.
Paul

 

[zfunk007]

Wow, sorry to hear about the pop-eye problems Paul. He looks awful in that picture. I hope your treatment works and he recovers. Keep us updated.

Shawn, glad to hear your Idol will be going to such a large home. Hopefully he will do fine.

My Idol is doing as well as ever. He adjusted perfectly to his new home and is eating well. I managed not to damage his dorsal fin when I moved him. He still has a few ich spots here and there but nothing out of the ordinary for my tanks. He has always had at least a few ich spots. Hopefully it won't get any worse.

I recently put my Broomtail Wrasse back into my my 110 but he isn't adjusting particularly well. The Idol isn't bothered by him but i'm not sure if the Broom is going to make it or not . He has been laying on the bottom for the past 2 days and not eating. Certainly not a good sign for a Broomtail wrasse. We shall see. But at least my Idol is doing well.

 

[Paul B]

Zfunk, I treated him twice and he seems fine. I took out all the fluid behind his eye and now he just has a little air bubble just at the surface above his eye. But the eye is back to normal so I will not catch him just yet to eliminate the bubble. Maybe in the future if it does not go away by itself I will fix it. If it gets worse I am going to have to get some antibiotic to inject but for now he looks great.
Take care.
paul

 

[fppf]

How do you get a fish to hold still while you shove a needle in its eye?

 

[KDodds]

When I removed a tumor from the mouth of my Blackcap I simply used a paper towel soaked in aquarium water.

 

[Shawnts106]

Well.. Good to see that you did get his eye feeling better!!!

Hopefully he will do fine

Shawn, glad to hear your Idol will be going to such a large home. Hopefully he will do fine.

Yes, however there is another problem... those ICH spots.... have turned into ICHHHHHH SPOOOOTTTTTTTSSSSSSSSS...

The Idol only has a few... however now, my Flame Angel, Coral Beauty and Yellow Tang, as well as the Clown... all have WhiteSpot ICH!

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

so... This weekend or so, I plan on MOVEING my entire tank, !! and redoing its aquascaping.... that way I can get those IDOT MEANLITTLE@$$ YTD's out once and foRALLLLLL!!!!!!!!!! wah ha ha ha ha haaaaaa...

sorry... T.I... anyway!... so, yeah, Im moving the tank as well as the FW tank too!... I plan on housing the fish in another tank that way I can treat them .. the only problem.. is the ONLY tank I have as a QT tank is a 10 gallon.... which, of couse, cant support a Yellow Tang, Flame Angel, Coral Beauty, Clownfish and a Moorish Idol!.... so we have ISSUEEEEESSSSSSSS!!!

I may have my work house them for me in one of our tanks... that way I can treat them!!!

Ive got QUICK CURE... which is my personal favorite! .... I have had a good bit of succuss with it... so I think Ill keep useing it, but if anyone else has a good idea, please share!


Once the fish are cured all but the YTD's and Moorish Idol will return to the tank!.... I plan on putting a Gold line Neon Goby, or two, one or two Reg. Neon Gobys, a red cap goby and a catalina goby in my tank too! they are all tiny small fish that dont produce alot of wastes and are fun to watch!


now!.... I, when I move the tank am redoing the substrate too!!!
I KNOW MESSY MESSY MESSY TIME!
Ive got Estes Marine Sand and some BIG OL' CC in there and it basically looks like SHUU SHUU!!!!
so I am going to do a 20LB bag of CaribSea Bahama Oolite and 50Lbs of the Marine Estes sand!
so 70LBs in a 75gallon tank.... That should be enough!

I am exchanging some of the small peices of very hard to place LR in the tank for some really massive ones... to give it a more "WHOLE" look.... that way I dont have to worry about TOPPLES so much.... so thats a good thing...
also, the Way the tank is seated as it is now is so that it is viewable from all 4 sides... Now Im smacking it on a wall so we only have 1 peice of glass to view from... which gives me alot of area to work with.... in this way I can Aquascape alot more easily ... ... ... and Give it a more natural look IMO!...

I think the fish will enjoy the EXTRA room in front to swim ...


sounds like a plan to me... also, while the NEW sand is "cycling in" I can house the fish at my LFS that way we dont have to worry about any upset fishes.. but CORALS Im still thinking about what to do... .ALOTTTTT of my corals have attached themselves to the rockwork and its very hard to try and deal with then while youve already got your rockwork readily set and settled... so I think I will try and use as much of the ROCK as I can with corals attached... I really dont have another choice!.... So this isnt bad.. makes it look good, I just worry about their well being and health!...


Well, thanks for the Suggest and thanks for the help so far... really has helped me you guys!

Tell me what you think!


OH AND PS what do you guys think about that new product by Marine Land I think it is, its called BIO SPIRA!.. denytrifying bacteria.. Anerobic I belive, and Heterotrophic.... I belive are the names.... Sounds good, but Im not really a believer of "bacteria in a bottle" soooooooooo... what do you guys think...
Is it possible if the bacterias dont have enough Ammonia to consume they go into a hybernation?????

thanks for the help!