The Moorish Idol Thread

[Shawnts106]

I suppose this post just became a Matt vs. Shawn Forum smackdown!

no, lol, im jk

I stated that my Yellow tang was being a bully... and I said that I wouldnt trust Tangs with Idols because of how agressive tangs are esspecially if they are allready in the tank....and established before you add the MI


I did not contridict myself.... and NO a 55 gallon would NOT be good at all for a MI, even if that was the ONLY fish in their, notice what I wrote... please reread it so you understand what I was meening by the 55 gallon tank remark...

yes OBVEOUSLY a 300 gallon tank would be fine... and I did say that I want those meany tangs OUT before hand.... I said that a 300gallon would be FINE for him... which it would....


anyway.. now that we have cleared that up!

I plan on moveing the tank soon, so I will more than likely move the MI to the store and keep him their for the time being so that My friend can get his tank situated... and all.... I do want to make sure that he will not mind him eatting on a few corals, and if he does I will see if he wouldnt mind him MOVEING those corals, if not and he doesnt want him I may just keep him at the store untill I find him a good home...


Obveously I have sided with the corals on this issue... Sorry to my MI, and IF I COULD keep him OF COURSE I WOULD... these fish are by far my favorite in the ocean...

I also, wish I could fly him down to Hawaii and release him back into the ocean... but, thats not possible for me, and if I did he might get eatted (lol) by a shark!!!

I WILL BE SURE if I do give him to someone else that they KNOW what goes with the fish!.... DIET INCLUDED!....
this fish WILL NOT GO TO SOME AMATURE!.... only to an experienced aqarist that is willing to care for him!

 

[LivingDeadFish]

Update
This month my Idol is 2 years old in my tank.
:eek1: :rollface: you heard correct two years.

Anyway I have watched this thread from the begining, an 2 things I have to Question. Ok its not a question, just my differnt observations.

1: Tank size
Although from the ocean, and they "as in the 2 that I have had" seem to like to keep moving in a 5ft tank.
They "as in the 2 that I have had" seem to be pickers an grazers Not requireing large aeras to swim.

2: Diet "Sponge"
Often my tank gets fed once a day, and this idol has not received sponge in his diet
of the food I feed, 90% of it is tetra color bits.


congrats on everyones good fortune, an the good thread.

ldf

 

[Paul B]

LivingDeadFish, Congrats on keeping an Idol for two years. They are a tough fish, I have had some longer and unfortunately some shorter time periods. Obviousely as you have pointed out they can live without sponge. I feed mine sponge only because I can collect it, they love it and I have spent a week diving with them in the South Pacific and they seem to spend a lot of time looking for and finding encrusting sponges. Maybe Tetra color bits gives them the same nutrition that they get from sponges or maybe they just like the stuff. As for swimming room, again obviousely, they can get by in a tank as a lot of other fish can but in the sea they are constantly on the move, they swim in large circles all over a reef in maybe 50 yard circles. I got very tired trying to keep up with them. I still think it is something besides diet that keeps them from living their normal life span which should be for a fish their size about twelve years.
Anyway good luck with your Idol.
Paul

 

[LivingDeadFish]

I still think it is something besides diet that keeps them from living their normal life span which should be for a fish their size about twelve years.

lol its called human intervention

ldf

 

[Shawnts106]

Maybe Tetra color bits gives them the same nutrition that they get from sponges or maybe they just like the stuff.

Um... I think its the second one... they just like the stuff....

lol its called human intervention

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

yes... Humans do tend to screw up nature quite often! hahahaha

 

[Paul B]

its called human intervention

I am sure this is the biggest factor that keeps them from living twelve years.
Paul

 

[zfunk007]

Well in some cases human intervention will make some things live longer. My parrot for instance supposedly will only live to 30-40 in the wild but can live to be over 100 in captivity. I think some kinds of fish are the same if we can supply them with an ideal environment for their whole life.

My eventual goal will be to breed Moorish Idols in captivity and provide them for aquarists. If we could successfully do this the captive bread specimens would probably do much better in captivity.

This of course won't happen anytime soon but I've got some ideas going for my new business I'm starting. And eventually once a project like that can fit into the budget. It will be done .

 

[Paul B]

Zfunk, it is a noble idea and I hope you can do it. The main problem may not be in breeding these fish but I am fairly sure (But not positive) that they are egg scatterers and the fry must live with the plankton at the surface of the sea for a few months. So far there is no fish that we can do that for. We can only raise fish that either build a nest thereby keeping the eggs all in one spot, mouthbrooders, which have very large offspring and seahorses which have live young.
Good luck. And I am in line for some baby moorish Idols.
Paul

 

[traveller7]

Idols, like tangs, will likely need an ocean supplied system for breeding, so think warm pacific locations for your breeding facility

 

[Shawnts106]

My parrot for instance supposedly will only live to 30-40 in the wild but can live to be over 100 in captivity.

True... but then again, I duno if I would want a 100 year old bird around the house... just my 2Cts

Now, YTD's have eggs that the father protects in a certain spot..... once the fry hatch, ussually at night, they swim to the surface.... where they are either eatten, die or survive... in a normal captive system... they die in a few hours due to no food...


My question is do Moorish Idols lay their eggs in a certain spot.. let them hatch then they are free to fend for themselves, or do they just lay and they fall whereever???

either way... I think if Im not mistaken the babies eat Rotifers? is this right?


I think it could be done... the trick is containing the babies, and makeing sure they eat, and having the appropriate foods for them to eat...

I do not think this is impossible, with a large 15,000 gallon system that pulls sea water in and out.... you could breed tangs and MI.... I think we could somehow collect the babies and keep them in a special fry raising chamber within the main tank... that way they get the food and good water!


I really hope this is possible and someone does do it one day... CAPTIVE RAISED tangs and MI would be AWSOME!

 

[Paul B]

Unfortunately with Idols, tangs and angles the fry would have to be part of the plankton for a while and eat much smaller food than rotifers. I am not saying it would be impossable because I hate that word but I will say it would be very expensive. I think it may be done in a pen in the sea but in a tank I would doubt it. But hey, I still want to be on the list for a baby Idol.
Good luck.
Paul

 

[zfunk007]

Actually there is a website my brother found that was breeding Grey Angels and raising the young. When I find the link I'll post it. So it has been done in captivity. It's not something that the average person could do obviously. You would need a business and alot of money. But since I am in this business I plan on doing it someday .

I think I have mentioned this before but eventually the importation of live fish and corals from other countries is going to be banned. And its going to be up to us to keep it alive. And the only way to do that is to figure out ways to breed these fish in captivity. And especially Moorish Idols .

 

[fppf]

Well Zfunk, you called it.
Houston we have a problem :sad2:

I put the Idol's in the main tank today, 2 weeks after first buying them and with no signs of ich or other infections. And my Powder Blue Tang was NOT happy. Actually if I had not stepped in it would have gotton bloody. :eek2:

The rest of the tank mates including the Blue Regal Tang are getting along just fine.

I don't know what I'm going to do with my powder blue. I put in a tank divider made out of egg create so he has a 1/3 and the rest have 2/3. He does not seem to mind them looking through the egg create. I think I will leave it like this a few days and see if the waters settle between them. If not I'm going to step 2, remove the Powder Blue for a few weeks in QT and do some house cleaning in the main tank. Then try putting him back in, hopefully he wont feel like the king of the hill after that. If that does not work I guess I will put the powder blue in my parents tank. But they have a Yellow tang so I don't know if that will work.

I'm now in the same boat as you Zfunk, I love my Powder Blue. He is another one of those hard to keep fish and he is the best looking Powder Blue I have ever seen captive. I hope it does not come to choosing between them, this really sucks now.

 

[zfunk007]

Sorry to hear about that fppf. I was afraid that would happen with an already established tang in your tank. However the method you have chosen may work. I think thats really the only option you have at this point.

Give it a few days. Alot of times aggression dies down within a few days and if thats the case they may end up getting along fine. If not there is always the other thing you mentioned. Take the Powder Blue out, rearrange the rock and then put him back in later. That may work as well. Either way I hope it turns out ok for you. Keep us updated!

 

[CrazyLionfish]

Seems that all your moorish idols are leading to trouble!!! Choosing between them and coral, choosing between them and the best looking powder blue!!

 

[fppf]

Wise man once said to me "If thats all you need to worry about in life your doing good".

I WILL NOT be giving my Powder Blue away!
My wife and already talked, I guess if things don't work out there will be yet another tank in our future. Now I just need to find some money somewhere for it. Oh well. I will try and snap some pics of them both soon.

 

[zfunk007]

More tanks are good. I have 6 and counting

 

[fppf]

Well, I am VERY sad to say that Jill (the smaller one) died this morning. When I first looked in the tank all was well. Then my wife woke up and went in the living room to find her stuck on a power head. I moved her back into the QT tank where she died a little later.

Although she was eating I don't feel she ate enough. Always looked really skinny and sunkin in. I beleave that she starved to death and that the add currents and larger tank just wore her down.

Now I have another problem. Gill (large one) has now stopped eating. He ate fine late last night after the move to the main tank. He was also picking all over the place at the LR in there. Now he is just slowly swimming around and breathing fast. Only thing I can think of is the lost of his friend. We will see what happens, I can only guess that this attempt has failed horrably. I really hate being the reason of a short life to any animal, maybe I'm rethinking trying to keep fish in a 6 foot box?

 

[fppf]

I hate making these posts.
Gill has died this evening.

I have no idea what happened to either of them. I think I'm going to retract my starving idea. Something killed them, fast, and I don't know what. Sunday when I moved them over all was good. Both where eating and picking in the tank. Even after the run in with my Powder Blue they still carried on picking and swimming. Then this morning they both just crashed. I can not think of anything that would cause them to fail that fast while every other fish in the tank is fine. My Urchins, Red African Sea Star, Tangs, and inverts are all fine. I don't think it would be a water quality issues because of these other tank mates.

I'm almost leaning to stress. Stress of being moved and getting roughed up by my Tang. However, anytime I have seen a fish get stressed the signs are shown right away not the next day?

I feel horrible for taking these two lives. They are such wonderful creatures and should have lived long and healthy.

I really did learn a few things:
After keeping these 2 for 2 weeks plus a little I feel you should keep them in pairs or schools. There was a total attitude change when the second fish was put in with the first. They helped each other. When the first died the second fish just slowly went a around the tank looking for the other.

You should most likely house them in there own tank with only smaller other fish. And few other fish. They seem to stress easy and take a long time to recover. Just doing water changes in the QT tank would make them stress.

Water quality must be perfect. Any little bit of anything will cause them to stress. I got a little Amonia in the QT after adding the second and it was aparent they where bothered by it, the level was only .025 ppm.

I hope that this will help someone in the future. I really don't want the death of these 2 fish to be pointless. I know I learned alot but don't know if I will try again. If you are thinking of trying these fish make sure to read up A LOT.

No money or time was spared when it came to these fish. I even put off some work to care for them. In all I think I spent about $300 for these 2. Nothing was spared and they still died. I don't really care about the money, it what I choose to do. Just feel bad for the fish.

 

[CrazyLionfish]

I really don't know why the first one died, but I'm pretty sure the second one (gill) died from the stress of his wife/husband leaving.