The whole coral pricing has become a joke

[SoloGarth]

The whole coral pricing has become a joke

Not to derail the thread, but isn't that to identify lineage? Whether or not you believe the seller/origin of the coral is another issue, but lineage can be important, no?



Personally, I don't care much about the boutique corals, but if a frag I'm considering came from ORA or ReefGen or some other trusted source, I'm much more apt to purchase than if it's a no-namer from Joe Schmoe's tank.

Yes I suppose. But once again these are live animals. They don't have a "Cornbread" logo. So essentially Joe Schmoe can just say it's a cornbread or ORA if he chooses to. That is of corse assuming he doesn't decide to call it by his own name: Schmoe's Joe the Coral. HA.

 

[Reef Ruler]

Not to derail the thread, but isn't that to identify lineage? Whether or not you believe the seller/origin of the coral is another issue, but lineage can be important, no?

Personally, I don't care much about the boutique corals, but if a frag I'm considering came from ORA or ReefGen or some other trusted source, I'm much more apt to purchase than if it's a no-namer from Joe Schmoe's tank.

I'm not sure if lineage really applies here. In terms of lineage, I'd think it would be more logical to identify where the coral was originally collected from. For example, Joe Schmoe buys an ORA Acro. Keeps it in his tank for 6 months, which is infested with AEFW. 6 months later, he goes on RC and sells his ORA Acro. While it is still being identified as an ORA Acro, that doesn't really mean that you should be more apt to purchase it. The "trustability" of the ORA name goes right out the window as soon as their product enters another reefers tank.

However, if you go on ORA's website, and order the exact same acro, weather it's named as a "standard blue acro" or "ORA blue magic acro," I would be considerably more apt to purchase from ORA as a trusted source, directly. If it were on ORA's website, and designated an Indo-pacific milli, that's what I would buy it as, and re-sell it as. Everybody who I sell frags to, and who they sell frags to, would know it came from the indo-pacific.

My point is, if I go on ORA's website, or Cornbred's website, or ReefGen's website, I'm going to buy that coral because of what it looks like, and weather or not the seller can be trusted with selling healthy pieces. Once it leaves that seller, and goes in my tank, the original designation or ORA, Cornbred, whatever, is completely irrelevant in my opinion. For that reason, I don't see why they're even "named" in the first place. If I go on ORA's website, I know I'm going to be ordering from ORA.

I guess if I post pictures of my SPS with all of their respective ridiculous names from their vendors, it would enable other users of RC to know where I got my corals, without having to take the time to post and ask me.

Naming live animal color morphs, in my opinion, only has a place when actual selective breeding occurs. For example, reptiles, where breeders spend many years attempting to create a specific color morph or pattern. That is literally their creation. That just doesn't apply to corals. They're found in the wild, and then grow in our tanks. That isn't something that you can claim as your own creation.

 

[SoloGarth]

I'm not sure if lineage really applies here. In terms of lineage, I'd think it would be more logical to identify where the coral was originally collected from. For example, Joe Schmoe buys an ORA Acro. Keeps it in his tank for 6 months, which is infested with AEFW. 6 months later, he goes on RC and sells his ORA Acro. While it is still being identified as an ORA Acro, that doesn't really mean that you should be more apt to purchase it. The "trustability" of the ORA name goes right out the window as soon as their product enters another reefers tank.



However, if you go on ORA's website, and order the exact same acro, weather it's named as a "standard blue acro" or "ORA blue magic acro," I would be considerably more apt to purchase from ORA as a trusted source, directly. If it were on ORA's website, and designated an Indo-pacific milli, that's what I would buy it as, and re-sell it as. Everybody who I sell frags to, and who they sell frags to, would know it came from the indo-pacific.



My point is, if I go on ORA's website, or Cornbred's website, or ReefGen's website, I'm going to buy that coral because of what it looks like, and weather or not the seller can be trusted with selling healthy pieces. Once it leaves that seller, and goes in my tank, the original designation or ORA, Cornbred, whatever, is completely irrelevant in my opinion. For that reason, I don't see why they're even "named" in the first place. If I go on ORA's website, I know I'm going to be ordering from ORA.



I guess if I post pictures of my SPS with all of their respective ridiculous names from their vendors, it would enable other users of RC to know where I got my corals, without having to take the time to post and ask me.



Naming live animal color morphs, in my opinion, only has a place when actual selective breeding occurs. For example, reptiles, where breeders spend many years attempting to create a specific color morph or pattern. That is literally their creation. That just doesn't apply to corals. They're found in the wild, and then grow in our tanks. That isn't something that you can claim as your own creation.

Absolutely agree.

 

[Frontier]

Went to get water from my amazing LFS - I love NSW - and saw a tiny Zoa colony every bit as colorful as the Cornbred ones in this thread for five dollars. It comes down to buyer beware. Just don't worry about what everyone else is doing, it's not worth the angst.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

I could not agree more. I collect pinball machines and the same thing happened in that hobby. High prices and the price police complaining. It's very simple, if you don' like the price don't buy it. 20 years ago my reef tank never had the option to get 90% of the coral I see now. Price was cheap but so was selection. You can still get beautiful corals reasonably priced if you go for some corals that have been around for a long time. They still look great.

If you set a pinball machine in its natural environment, ( bar, basement, arcade, family room ), and return in 90 days, it's still one pinball machine. A polyp reproduces daily, weekly etc, there's no comparison of the two. I wouldn't call it complaining, people are expressing their opinions like every other thread in this forum. It's not as simple as "if you don't like it, don't buy it". When the gougers inflate the price of a common corals which use to cost $ 50.00 for a colony of 60, and now sells 3 polyps to a newb for $ 50.00, he then justifies his inflated price because someone who didn't know better has set a precedent. This happens everyday and many have left because of this practice. This price gouging is running many new and established reefers away because reefing has become extremely expensive for tiny nubs. Many of these frags are prematurely, repetitively, excessively and improperly fragged which is why many perish within days of arrival. You're right, and 20 years before the same was true. Please, share with us where we can find the stunningly bright red, yellow, blue and orange colonies we saw everywhere prior to 04/05 when naming and sky high pricing began.

MUCHO REEF

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Isn't this capitalism at its finest? (or worst?)

I prefer to simplify it, it's GREED. Turning a fun family hobby into a business with lies, false claims of rarity, 1,000 % mark ups and of course names and lineage. :lmao:

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Deceptive marketing, price manipulation, a consumer outcry that does nothing... Yeah, sounds par for the course.

Lets be honest though it is not like we are talking about an unregulated utility here.

I have a tank full of common coral, It does not bother me in the least.

But it does bother thousands of other reefers. I can share dozens of these threads.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920486

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Not to derail the thread, but isn't that to identify lineage? Whether or not you believe the seller/origin of the coral is another issue, but lineage can be important, no?

Personally, I don't care much about the boutique corals, but if a frag I'm considering came from ORA or ReefGen or some other trusted source, I'm much more apt to purchase than if it's a no-namer from Joe Schmoe's tank.

Lineage is an absolute waste of time. Let's say your polyps came from Jacques Cousteau himself, does it guarantee that your polyps won't die, get RTN, fungus, pox or die for no obvious reason? No, it doesn't, it's simply a tool to garner more money from your wallet. I have met my fair share of reefers who can recite every polyp name, its street value, lineage and the person's name attached to it, yet most everything he's own has died. Lineage has been debunk over and over again. I think basic husbandry practices trumps lineage any day of the week. Just my opinion.

MUCHO REEF

 

[MUCHO REEF]

rant alert

I get that people want to make money on corals but it's gotten to the point it's more about greed than making money. The zoa trend is probably the most comical of all. When I see 15-100 per polyp, I start wondering who in the hell is buying this? You can't even get a good colony of anything anymore because everyone wants to cut everything into small pieces and charge what they use to for large versions. I saw this "Nuke" green torch for 300 dollars. I paid 300 for our Huskie and she's a hell of a lot more entertaining than a torch coral. lol. Don't even get me into the renaming of corals. "Incredible Hulk Zoa" "Darth Maul zoa" "24k Torch" Give me a break. Last rant. The 40 dollar PURPLE HAZE mushrooms. These should have a street value less than a damsel. I had so many purple mushrooms in my tank I couldn't even see the other corals. They grow like weeds. I guess it all comes down what people are willing to pay for it. This hobby has a lot of people with more money than smarts, no offense, I'm one of them most of the time.

rant over

My friend, we can discuss this issue until Christmas and it may or may not enlighten those who aren't aware of the game. I'm glad RC has allowed this discussion to continue as many reefers wish to express their opinions for and against sky high prices. The link below gives merit in my opinion as to why so many are so troubled by what it happening.

http://166.78.194.236/forums/showthread.php?t=2316723


MUCHO REEF

 

[JMorris271]

Ever try to buy concert or sporting event tickets off the street these days?

 

[Tweaked]

I am an acro addict and have been known to drop some cash on good aquacultured pieces. Also don't like the fresh mari stuff as it may or may not hold color for me. Outside of knowing people, you are gonna have to pay for some of the more interesting colors. Even frag swap shows are starting to get out of hand. Other than that, they are all just animals if you strip away some of the amazing colors they come in. But in life, the more colorful, the more expense typically.

And everyone speaks of waiting a year for the prices to drop on these crazy acros. I've been around a while, besides friends who some where down the line paid the high price, where are all these hot inexpensive acros you all are talking of?

 

[jayball]

But it does bother thousands of other reefers. I can share dozens of these threads.



http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1920486

I have to clarify my post was made a bit tongue in cheek, with a heavy salt of cynicism. I do not agree with with the lack of common ethics of many of those sellers.

I will agree mostly with your argument against lineage. The chop shop people like cornbred use name to build hype and charge more. I would pay more for (one example) a acro frag that has a multiple generation lineage in captivity because I know it is more likely to survive in my tank rather than a cut off of a wild colony that just colored up.

 

[Frontier]

Lineage is an absolute waste of time. Let's say your polyps came from Jacques Cousteau himself, does it guarantee that your polyps won't die, get RTN, fungus, pox or die for no obvious reason? No, it doesn't, it's simply a tool to garner more money from your wallet. I have met my fair share of reefers who can recite every polyp name, its street value, lineage and the person's name attached to it, yet most everything he's own has died. Lineage has been debunk over and over again. I think basic husbandry practices trumps lineage any day of the week. Just my opinion.

MUCHO REEF

It would certainly be a first I think - not worrying about the lineage of captive bred animals. So hard to prove with corals, but that's why there are standards for other animals that we breed. I'm not advocating that btw, just saying.

 

[mussel and hate]

Isn't this capitalism at its finest? (or worst?)

Neither. I've always been under the impression that capital is the value derived from the labor of another. Capitalism being an economic system based on that as described by Karl Marx.

Selling goods is just commerce. Misrepresenting the nature of goods sold i.e. "rare" is fraud or at best ignorance.

 

[mussel and hate]

Re fanciful names and lineage, who cares? We have taxonomy and physical description which serves to describe specimens better than whatever made up moniker a random chop shop assigns.

 

[SoloGarth]

The whole coral pricing has become a joke

My favorite is LE "limited edition". This just does not apply to corals. It is even more an attempt to make it seem like the seller has created some product when in fact they are only a middleman.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

My favorite is LE "limited edition". This just does not apply to corals. It is even more an attempt to make it seem like the seller has created some product when in fact they are only a middleman.

Agreed, there is no such thing as Limited Edition, maybe limited supply, yes. Whenever you see just released, limited edition, some person's name attached, lineage, just discovered, newly found or from some collection, you should grab your wallet and run. Why, because you are about to be taken, hoodwinked, bamboozled, lead astray and run amuk. These are key words used to excite you to feel good about paying hard earned cash for something that is more often then not common. I'm working on something to show you how this game is played. How can something be new, LS yadda yadda when I had it in my tank 13 years ago with proof? Stay tuned. People this is usually nothing more then hype marketing, excessive actinics and photoshopping.

Mooch

 

[TheJay]

The bottom line is a lot of these photoshop guys live in FL and CA, states with strict consumer fraud laws, so if you really have a problem with it file a citizens criminal complaint against them at the court house and complain to the appropriate fish and game people and get their aquaculture licence revoked, otherwise everything everyone is saying is irrelevant

 

[TheJay]

Oh and remember there's no such thing as "rare" cause if it was it would be banned by CITIES

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Well the animals we purchase can slip through a few hands before we get them. There are some standard prices for coral, and some just off the charts. We all have a choice with what we purchase for our tanks.

I can agree with that my friend. Hopefully this thread will assist others in making an informed choice.

MUCHO