Thinking about a Seahorse Fuge

[reefgeezer]

Back in the day I sold seahorses at my LFS. I didn't know then that they were going to die. I quit selling them as soon as I figured it out. Now I'm thinking about giving in to the kids and grand kids and building a 30 gallon Seahorse display fuge and running it off the sump from my reef tank.

My first question is obviously, will Seahorses really live in captivity? I'd also appreciate any tips on their care. No advice will be considered too basic. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

Seahorses live and breed in captivity. Read all the posts here that you can first. Know the requirements for your particular species choice.

Jeff

 

[Sk8r]

Go to the newbie forum, among other things, read about tank setup, if it's been a while---I reefed back in the day, laid out and had to learn new equipment!--- then go back to the Seahorse forum, read those, and Go for it! They will both live and breed if you do it right. I would suggest if you're going to run it as a fuge you do something like a barrier of eggcrate or some sort of drilled plexi to let pods enter the seahorse section of the fuge slowly, and breed in a packed live-rock cheato section without predation.

 

[reefgeezer]

I'm keeping a reef now and have kept up with methods and technologies, but I haven't kept up with the particulars of keeping seahorses. I suppose my original post was kinda vague as to the basic info I need. I have a 2 year old 75 gallon mixed reef that is doing pretty well. It runs on a 30 Gallon sump with a oversized Reef Octo skimmer and GFO and GAC Reactors. The fuge is quite small but nutrient levels remain low due to a small DIY biopellet reactor.

I really want to replace the fuge and biopellet reactor with a seagrass and mangrove display refuge that houses seahorses, pipefish, and dragonetts.

 

[rayjay]

Your 30g will be sufficient for one pair of normal size type seahorse species like erectus or reidi.
It is NOT recommended to have the system hooked into another one for several reasons, one being the higher temperatures of a reef system, and two, the possibility of exposing the seahorses to pathogens that they haven't grown up with that can cause their demise.
While many seahorses normally come from warmer waters, that water is always changing, unlike our tanks where the bacteria are captive and in water above 74° will multiply exponentially with each degree above.
Bacteria infestations are the number one killer of seahorses, with new pathogen exposure being number two.
There are a number of links to experience keepers comments at the bottom of MY THOUGHTS ON SEAHORSE KEEPING page.

 

[reefgeezer]

Thanks Rayjay,

After reading your post, I have decided I'm not prepared to keep sea horses. I was hoping the captive bread and tank raised stock were hardier. Sounds like little has chaged. I thought SPS corals were a pain! I think I'll make the new fuge a goby and jawfish tank.

 

[reefgeezer]

Wait a minute...

Wait a minute...

The seahorse project may be back on... I've done a little reading and am confused. In some places, I read that some sp. of seahorses live in tropical reef environments where temperatures of 79 or 80 F are not a problem. Here at RC and other places I read that all seahorses are doomed at temperatures above 74 F. I know that I might just be "hearing what I want to hear" so please don't think I'm ignoring anyone's advise. I just want to get it straight in my head before I proceed or give up on this project.

Is there a recommended author who members rely on for information about these creatures?

I'd like to clarify that I'm not using my current fuge for the seahorse tank. I'm building a 24" wide X 18" deep X 24" high acrylic tank which will run from my reef's sump. Lighting will be provided by dimmed LED. The reef's temp is 79-80 F 24/7-365. The tank will have a 4" of sand with seagrass and some dead rock on the bottom. Flow to the tank will be approximately 200 (4X) GPH and go through an 8 Watt UV prior to entering the tank. I am currently thinking about housing a single pair of Pacific Seahorses (H. Inges) and some compatible tankmates like Pipefish, Mandarin Gobies, Jawfish, etc. in this tank.

Thanks

 

[hotrodolds]

No one will argue with you that they are found in tropical environments with reef type temperatures. The issue is in captivity bacterial levels are much denser than in the wild and they can not handle it. Keeping them at a lower temperature keeps bacterial reproduction in check and helps to prevent them from succumbing to disease due to these bacterial infections.

 

[rayjay]

The best explanation I've come across is on that link and is written by Dan Underwood of seahorsesource.com, the best commercial breeder to buy seahorses from.
COMMENT ON TEMPERATURE FOR SEAHORSES
Still, you plan to connect to your reef system and that is going to likely cause you problems both temperature and exposure to pathogens the seahorses can't handle.
H. ingens are a very large seahorse and need more room than 30g for a pair.
You had mentioned being anal about algae and slime, well a seahorse tank is far worse for those problems than any reef tank due to the fact the seahorses usually need a lot of mysis added to the tank in order to get the few pieces that they will eat. It would be like feeding your reef tank 10 or 20 times as much food as the fish will eat, and then dealing with the high nutrient levels and resultant algae problems that will also lead to bacterial infestations the seahorses can't handle in a captive environment.
Before you consider putting other tank mates into the tank, please wait a year and see just how successful you are in keeping just the seahorses first of all, and then you might consider others.
My guess would be that for every seahorse kept longterm at reefing temperatures, and with or without tankmates that haven't come from the same breeding facility, thousands more die in the attempt.

 

[Allmost]

well I have only kept seahorses for 1 year now.

and they are in a tank connected to my reef system, which is filtered via bacterioplankton (Zeovit) so there are enough bacteria there. only SPS in my reef.

the seahorses live at temp around 80, and they have been fine for a year now, breeding regularly every 2 weeks.

In my opinion, if you remove all the uneaten food, have EXCELLENT water parameters, and feed the horses enough food which has high nutrition, and skimm well (to remove excess bacteria) you should be fine on higher temps, but this is only my opinion, and mostly do not agree with me. but I havent found a good argument against it, and the health/color of my seahorses are really good. but I admit, I may have been lucky with these guys, there might be something else I do unintentionally helping or ... all I know is that it is working for now, for me for sure do not take my advice though.


one thing I Can tell you for sure though, is to get captive bread ones, and DO NOT mix captive breed with wild caught seahorses.

 

[reefgeezer]

Thanks, Allmost. I expect to get a variety of ideas. It wouldn't be a forum if everyone answers the same.

The tank I am building is actually about 44 gallons and should be large enough for a single pair of H. Inges or a couple pair of the smaller tropical sp.. Most I've read (Including seahorsesource.com) seem to think a tall 30 would be OK. I believe that with the LED lighting over the seahorse tank, a fan blowing across its surface, and the heat loss through the tubing as the water moves from the reef, I'll get a temperature of about 76-78 F.

Rayjay, I have already read Dan's information and believe that I understand what he is saying. Dan attributes success at higher temperatures to the prompt removal of uneaten food by higher flow rates or the use of live food. This keeps the specimens from foraging for decaying and pathogen laden food. Further, while he mentions the higher pathogen count associated with high nutrient systems at higher temperatures, he really doesn't comment on low nutrient systems or explain how some hobbyists keep seahorses in them. Again, maybe I'm interpreting his article the way I wish it to be, but to me, Dan is saying that removal of excess food is more important as temperatures rise and not your seahorses will die if you keep them over 74 degrees.

That being said, I still haven't decide on the seahorses. The new tank could still become a Mandarin Tank. Anybody have any suggested reading? Thanks again to all.

 

[rayjay]

Allmost has been most fortunate as there have been many others just as diligent in husbandry and proper feeding that have failed.
Sometimes it is not just what you do that provides success, it takes some luck as in seahorses that happen to be able to handle the set up they are placed in.
Other seahorses from the same brood in similar situations may not make it.
The recommendations are not there and saying that if you don't do them the seahorses will die, (as in temp for example), but are designed to give much better odds of success than when they are not followed.
It is not a guarantee of success by doing everything recommended.
Obviously people can succeed at times in spite of everything because it is being done, but when thousands of seahorses die for each success story, then it's not good to recommend something that only works for so few.
It is not easy to keep a system clean enough for seahorses being kept in reefing conditions, and people being people tend to slough off occasionally and sometimes that's all it takes to lead to losses.

 

[Just2Many]

Wow nice Read I'm learning!

 

[Allmost]

Allmost has been most fortunate as there have been many others just as diligent in husbandry and proper feeding that have failed.
Sometimes it is not just what you do that provides success, it takes some luck as in seahorses that happen to be able to handle the set up they are placed in.
Other seahorses from the same brood in similar situations may not make it.
The recommendations are not there and saying that if you don't do them the seahorses will die, (as in temp for example), but are designed to give much better odds of success than when they are not followed.
It is not a guarantee of success by doing everything recommended.
Obviously people can succeed at times in spite of everything because it is being done, but when thousands of seahorses die for each success story, then it's not good to recommend something that only works for so few.
It is not easy to keep a system clean enough for seahorses being kept in reefing conditions, and people being people tend to slough off occasionally and sometimes that's all it takes to lead to losses.

I agree, and after about 20 years of fish keeping and breeding, there are some stuff that I see and can do that others cant.

we can call it luck

 

[namxas]

The tank I am building is actually about 44 gallons and should be large enough for a single pair of H. Inges or a couple pair of the smaller tropical sp..

H. ingens is a temperate species (68*F max) that besides requiring a cooler tank, can get pretty large (12") or so. I don't recommend trying them at reef temps, and I think 44 gals is a bit tight. IME, SH will use every bit of space (esp. lateral) you give them.

Just some food for thought...

 

[reefgeezer]

I suppose I approached this thread incorrectly. Let's try again. If I decide to keep seahorses, how should I set up their tank, and what husbandry is required? I don't need information on basic or advanced marine aquarium keeping practices, just the information that would help me keep seahorses. I'd also appreciate any references to publications concerning their care.

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[namxas]

The trouble is there's basically NOT a book out there with CURRENT information. My wife actually collects books on SH, and I can tell you that about the best info out there IN BOOK FORM is the SH section in Scott Michael's Reef Fishes Vol. I and even some of that info is outdated. There's actually a decent free care guide out there, but the RC forum rules don't allow me to refer you to it.

Bottom line:

Keep them cool (74*F max for tropicals). The chances of bacterial infections go WAY up past that.

Give them enuff space. Large species SH will typically use all of the horizontal space available to them (extra vertical space is really only important if you plan to breed them). Minimum is 29 gals for the first pair, and 15 gals/pair thereafter.

Feed them daily. SH Lack a true stomach and can't hold food for digestion.

Flow is fine as long as the SH aren't being blown around.

Make sure any heater or PH's have a guard on them.

Buy TRUE CB specimens from a reputable breeder or hobbyist/breeder.

In the end, you can do whatever you like, but you'll have the best success by setting up a dedicated SH system as opposed to making the SH an "afterthought" tacked onto an existing system.

 

[reefgeezer]

There's actually a decent free care guide out there, but the RC forum rules don't allow me to refer you to it.

Thanks for the advise, but Jeeze, I'd really like to have some more detailed info. Do you think RC would have a problem if you PM the title/author.

 

[reefgeezer]

Does anyone keep fish, or plants like seagrasses and mangroves, with their seahorses? Is 74 F or lower a bit cool for them?

 

[rayjay]

Yes, there are quite a few out there doing so, including namxas who I believe has some macro and maybe seagrasses in his seahorse tanks.
There are probably threads here on this forum that include many pictures of his tanks showing the macros. Try a search with his name. He may have macro and seagrasses but I don't know about mangroves as I don't remember anyone posting about having those in a seahorse tank.
Seagrasses from what I researched some years ago, need more lighting than macros so for me that would be bad as I can't afford chillers for all the tanks.