This was an eye opener - cont.

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15736569#post15736569 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jdhuyvetter
Uh oh, you try to take away my 1967 Mustangs, we going to fight!!!!!

I think Rossini's comments about owning a fuel inefficient vehicle are a little misguided. We don't have to and shouldn't eliminate every vehicle that has poor efficiency. We only need to ensure that the majority of cars in the future are more efficient. It is a trend that has been occuring since the first cars were even made.

I don't think anyone should tell you that you shouldn't own your Mustang, unless they own a Chevy. Yes, it gets poor fuel economy, but few people own antique cars. As time progresses, those old cars will be owned by fewer and fewer people, until they are gradually phased out in favor of newer, more fuel efficient vehicles. Of course, a few diehards will keep the oldies around, but by that time those cars are mostly weekend cruisers anyway. My dream is a vintage Karmann Ghia or Beetle.

Scott

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15736241#post15736241 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by billsreef
That would be the marketing gimmick I referred to

And that is the reason why I think an alarmist mentality reguarding global warming is a dangerous thing.

Scott

 

[stugray]

"Driving a car/truck that does low mpg has got to be one of the most ignorant selfish things anyone can be doing in todays times."

And how do you propose I drive around a family of 8?

Also, if we intend on using biofuels, we need to do it with a crop that does not require fertilizer. Fertilizers are killing the oceans and the energy required to make fertilizer almost offsets the energy we get from the biofuels.



"Even better would be the algae-based biodiesel produced on non-arable land. Gasification of waste materials may be viable in the next few years. In short, a lot of progress has been made."

EXACTLY! why dont we have giant solar powered algae farms in the middle of Utah & death valley? Also, there should be a requirement to partially offset some of the CO2 from power plants by feeding huge algae farms with the waste CO2.

check this out:

http://www.rentechinc.com/

I bought stock when it was $0.75 it has hit almost $3 in the last month :-0.


Stu

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15741258#post15741258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by stugray


Also, if we intend on using biofuels, we need to do it with a crop that does not require fertilizer. Fertilizers are killing the oceans and the energy required to make fertilizer almost offsets the energy we get from the biofuels.

That is one of the nice things about soybean-bean based biodiesel. Not only does it not require fertilizers, it actually reduces fertilizer usage when the land is used for other crops. You can rotate your the soybeans on different fields within the farm and actually enrich the soil for other crops. The algae-based diesels are nice because they can be produced in the middle of the desert, will likely require copious amounts of fertilizers.

Scott

 

[jdhuyvetter]

I was trying to make light of Rossini's negative bashing. He is very good at it. If you read his posts in this and other threads, I am at various times a moron and an idiot.

As for Rossini, I'll open up for more negativity......

I am a single guy, I have a 1967 Ford Mustang Fastback, modified stock engine. No clue what the gas mileage is, don't care. I would guess about 8-10 mpg. (Yes, a weekend driver). I have another 1967 mustang convertible, currently being restored. When it is done, it will be a weekend driver as well. Probably get around 12-14 mpg (S-code car, 390 V8).

My current weekend driver, 2004 Dodge Ram PU, hemi, of course. Gets 13-14 mpg, city and highway. Love it and Obama can't have it!!!!

Daily driver, company vehicle.....2006 Ford Expedition

Let the bashing commence...........

(for all you others, I am in favor of environmentally friendly vehicles. When someone makes a truck or SUV that can tow a 10,000 lb boat at 55 mph without blowing up, I'll buy it)

 

[jdhuyvetter]

Oh yeah, I hate the new Chevy Camaro. But, I really like the new Challenger.

 

[ScooterTDI]

I am a little disappointed that you have a gasser truck. I love diesels of all kinds and don't understand why anyone would by a truck if it wasn't a diesel. I plan on getting getting a F250 diesel in the next couple of years just for hauling stuff around, but I'll probably try to make it as obnoxious as possible with big stacks and reprogrammed so it blows soot like a freight train.

Scott

 

[jdhuyvetter]

At the time I bought my truck, I couldn't find a diesel Dodge that I liked. I looked at a couple, but there just weren't that many on the market down here. Plenty of Ford's, but they were all white. Didn't want a white truck. Also, they were priced higher.

 

[Rossini]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15741000#post15741000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ScooterTDI
Yes, I know what an SUV is. I am wondering how you concluded that SUVs are responsible for the push for ethanol.

People forget that energy is energy and its not free (from a physics perspective). Yes, electric cars don't emit at the tailpipe. They emit at the powerplant. Of course, the dynamos at the powerplant are a lot more efficient than the typical gas engine, but there is still a significant net CO2 emmision involved because those powerplants are usually running on things like coal and oil. Now, if nuclear power were more widely used we could have electric cars with virtually no CO2 emmisions, but we would have to find appropriate methods of disposing/storing the nuclear waste. The thing to keep in mind with electric cars is that the energy storage devices like batteries can have a very serious environmental impact that needs to be adequately addressed before the electric vehicles can be considered a truly viable option.

Biofuels (and other alternative fuels) do not necessarily have to drive food prices up. Like I mentioned, extra soybeans can be planted on fallow fields and algae-based biodiesel can be produced on non-arable land. This minimizes or eliminates the impact on food prices.

Scott

blah blah blah. yes electric cars have a co2 footprint through manufacture. do you think that traditional gas guzzler manufacture is exempt from this?

and the link is quite easy to work out. you guys wont give up your hyper consumption of petroleum with your massiveley inefficient modes of transport and you want to stop importing so much oil from your enemies, so clever as you and your leader at the time are you start growing fuel (ethanol) to fill up those gas guzzlers, sod the poor who cant now afford their staple food. It's not rocket science old boy.

do you actualy realise how distructive you are being by bleating on about "global warming alarmism". It's that attitude from you and a large portion (not all though) of your countrymen that is stopping a world deal to tackle this huge problem taking place before it becomes a catastrophe. So give yourselfs a pat on the back. You are winning. You're completley nuts, but sadly you are winning.

Keep going with your fred singer links and all the other denial, im sure your kids and grandkids will really thank you for it.

I hope you live long enough to see the climate catastrophe and for your kids or grandkids to ask you "couldnt we have done something about this before it got this bad?" I would love to be a fly on the wall when you get asked that question. :rollface::smokin:

 

[Rossini]

[iI'll probably try to make it as obnoxious as possible with big stacks and reprogrammed so it blows soot like a freight train.

Scott [/B]

that confirms everything I thought.

and you think you can take part in intelligent discussion about climate change? what a joke......

again, give yourself a pat on the back, you clever clever man. maybe if you rev it up enough you might give some lefty communist greeny lung disease from your exhaust fumes. what a result that would be hey.

:rollface:

 

[Rossini]

I know you guys have trouble acknowledging the fact there are other countries on this planet other than the good old U.S of A but here is a report for you from this other big continent called Africa.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/sep/22/united-nations-climate-change-uganda

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15746895#post15746895 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini
that confirms everything I thought.

and you think you can take part in intelligent discussion about climate change? what a joke......

again, give yourself a pat on the back, you clever clever man. maybe if you rev it up enough you might give some lefty communist greeny lung disease from your exhaust fumes. what a result that would be hey.

:rollface:

So what did you think?

Diesels are not as bad as they seem. In fact, diesel soot may actually be countering global warming. I don't remember where I read it, but there is some evidence to suggest that diesel soot can act as droplet nucleii to seed cloud formation thereby increasing the albedo of the earth and reducing global warming.

Scott

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15746936#post15746936 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini
I know you guys have trouble acknowledging the fact there are other countries on this planet other than the good old U.S of A but here is a report for you from this other big continent called Africa.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/sep/22/united-nations-climate-change-uganda

Seriously? You seem to have a grudge against Americans or something. I know there are other countries in the world because the US is providing substantial aid to half of them. So, stop to think for a minute before you treat the US as some great evil power filled with mindless idiots.

I am not sure what is the purpose of that article. It seems to me to be just another example of how people are blaming global warming for things without substantiating their claim. Its a very sad situation, but it is also very easy to make global warming the scapegoat for the worlds problems.

Scott

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15746811#post15746811 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini
blah blah blah. yes electric cars have a co2 footprint through manufacture. do you think that traditional gas guzzler manufacture is exempt from this?

Actually, you are incorrect here. I was not referring to the manufactering CO2 footprint. I was referring to the CO2 footprint associated with the generation of electricity. You have to get that electrical power from somewhere and the vast majority of the worlds electrical power is generated from burning coal or oil.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15746811#post15746811 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini

and the link is quite easy to work out. you guys wont give up your hyper consumption of petroleum with your massiveley inefficient modes of transport and you want to stop importing so much oil from your enemies, so clever as you and your leader at the time are you start growing fuel (ethanol) to fill up those gas guzzlers, sod the poor who cant now afford their staple food. It's not rocket science old boy.

I still don't understand. You are upset that America made an effort to develop a renewable fuel industry. Although misguided, you can't really blame it on SUVs.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15746811#post15746811 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini

do you actualy realise how distructive you are being by bleating on about "global warming alarmism". It's that attitude from you and a large portion (not all though) of your countrymen that is stopping a world deal to tackle this huge problem taking place before it becomes a catastrophe. So give yourselfs a pat on the back. You are winning. You're completley nuts, but sadly you are winning.

Again, this is somewhat disrespectful, but I'll just try to ignore those parts while still addressing the underlying arguement.

How is the US stopping the world from tackling the problem? We just hosted a summit on climate change in New York yesterday. We are currently making changes to our current energy policies to reduce our emmisions. We are investing heavily into research on renewable energy sources. What more do you want?

Things may not occur at the pace you want them to, but you have to understand that things don't change overnight.

Scott

 

[Rossini]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15746990#post15746990 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ScooterTDI
So what did you think?

Diesels are not as bad as they seem. In fact, diesel soot may actually be countering global warming. I don't remember where I read it, but there is some evidence to suggest that diesel soot can act as droplet nucleii to seed cloud formation thereby increasing the albedo of the earth and reducing global warming.

Scott

haha that's a classic. who told you that fred singer?

:bum:

 

[Rossini]

How is the US stopping the world from tackling the problem? We just hosted a summit on climate change in New York yesterday. We are currently making changes to our current energy policies to reduce our emmisions. We are investing heavily into research on renewable energy sources. What more do you want?

Things may not occur at the pace you want them to, but you have to understand that things don't change overnight.

Scott [/B][/QUOTE]

Obama hasnt got nowhere near enough support regarding a climate change bill. That's a stone cold fact. Over 40 % of americans still think that global warming isnt a threat.

I cant say anymore because of the politics rules on the forum.

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15747250#post15747250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini
haha that's a classic. who told you that fred singer?

:bum:

In case you don't remember, I never quoted Fred Singer.

Scott

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15747265#post15747265 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini

Obama hasnt got nowhere near enough support regarding a climate change bill. That's a stone cold fact. Over 40 % of americans still think that global warming isnt a threat.

I cant say anymore because of the politics rules on the forum.

Well, as I said before, things aren't going to change overnight. Every step in the right direction should be applauded, not denounced. We have to be realistic about what can be acheived.

Scott

 

[ScooterTDI]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15747250#post15747250 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Rossini
haha that's a classic. who told you that fred singer?

:bum:

In case you are interested, I did a quick google search and Fundamentals of Atmospheric Modeling states that aged diesel soot can act as a significant contributor to cloud nucleation. I also turned up many other scientific journal articles that discuss the role of diesel soot as droplet nuceii. So, in essence, you should be praising me for my love of diesel soot....

Scott

 

[Rossini]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15747561#post15747561 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ScooterTDI
In case you are interested, I did a quick google search and Fundamentals of Atmospheric Modeling states that aged diesel soot can act as a significant contributor to cloud nucleation. I also turned up many other scientific journal articles that discuss the role of diesel soot as droplet nuceii. So, in essence, you should be praising me for my love of diesel soot....

Scott

Maybe it has certain properties. But it is still a fossil fuel, which releases co2 when burnt and all sorts of other crap,some cancer causing.

You cling to these crazy ideas though, it seems it's a common thing to do.....