Thumbs up for Ozone!

[Travis]

I run an Aquazone 200 mg/hr unit at 50% 24/7 on my tank. I love the results. I tried the air dryer that came with the unit but it would only last around 18 hours in my humid fish room. I got sick of recharging it and just quit using the dryer. I noticed no change in performance. I'm controlling my ORP levels with my Aquacontroller. I don't run any carbon in the tank but do have it on the air output of the skimmer (ozone is injected into skimmer).

Here are some important things to consider with running ozone.

-It is recommended to use an ORP monitor/controller so you don't overdose. I've found that my ORP levels are a very good predictor of if something might not be ok in my tank.

-If running ozone through a skimmer you should place some carbon on the air outlet to so you don't get ozone in the air. If I didn't have carbon on the air outlet of my skimmer the whole room would smell badly of ozone, which could be lethal.

-Many people recommend running carbon at the skimmer output also to absorb residual ozone that doesn't get blown off in the air from the skimmer. There are also many people out there that say you don't need to run carbon to remove residual ozone. Their reasoning behind this is that most setups have the skimmer dumping water into the sump. Ozone is very unstable. By the time the water from the skimmer gets to the tank there shouldn't be any ozone left in the water anyways. I ran carbon in the tank for a while with ozone and stopped recently. I haven't noticed any changes in my tank since removing the carbon. The water is still just as crystal clear.

 

[Ratcool69]

How much is the Redsea Ozonizer selling for ...the 50MG? Thanks

 

[foxstop]

Depends on which model you want;

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RED-BASIC50&Category_Code=ozoneunits

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=RED-Aquazone50&Category_Code=ozoneunits

Brian

 

[justgettinstarted]

does your ozonizer use UV or electric current to generate the O3?

corona discharge. The UV ones are junkie, and their power consumption is not proportional to their production. You can make a lot more ozone with crona discharge than UV. FWIW i think the half life of O3 in water @ 20*C is only 15 min or something like that. And that is in DI water were it really has nothing to react with.

 

[Ratcool69]

Thanks Brian

 

[foxstop]

No problem.
I have had my eyes on one of those for a long time, but I've been to chicken to take the plunge.
Maybe this will be the year.

Brian

 

[joelsaxton]

I say go for it.

 

[crescent1]

some good reading from euroreef

some good reading from euroreef

Q#3. Should I use OZONE (O3) in my Euro-Reef protein skimmer to control my ORP?

A#3. Our official position is, NO, you should not use OZONE in your Euro-Reef protein skimmer. While the answer to this question is our opinion, there are some important "facts" to that have lead us to our current position and they should be considered. ORP, or Oxidation Reduction Potential, is a very misunderstood measurement and also an overused and abused term. While ozone will "technically" affect/adjust your ORP, it is far more desirable to achieve a stable ORP level via proper protein skimming, regular small water changes, and the consistent use of small amounts of GAC (Granular Activated Carbon). Ozone is extremely dangerous and very difficult to use properly. It should most definitely NOT be used in a protein skimmer if your intent is to gain the maximum benefit from it with the least amount of hassle. The reason it should not be used in a skimmer is that it inhibits the skimming process and defeats the purpose of the skimmer all together because it oxidizes organics (converts them into Nitrate) that the skimmer is supposed to remove BEFORE they are oxidized. If your intent is to use OZONE as a prophylactic to control pathogens ( parasites, bacteria etc,.), then a much better medium for ozone use is an ozone reactor. This device will allow you to get the maximum benefit from ozone while allowing the best opportunity to make sure that residual ozone does not enter into the filtration system/ sump or the aquarium proper where it can be very damaging. At the very least one should learn all one can about OZONE and weigh the drawbacks and benefits as an informed decision is ALWAYS a better decision.

 

[joelsaxton]

an alternate viewpoint

an alternate viewpoint

Ozone and Ozonizers
by Mike Paletta

It has long been recommended that ozone be used in marine tanks for many reasons including its ability to kill many pathogens and make the water crystal clear. Ozone (O3), which is an unstable form of oxygen, acts by oxidizing with (giving up an oxygen molecule to) anything that it comes in contact with. In laymen's terms, ozone acts as bleach and kills things like bacteria and viruses on contact. Not only does this bleaching action help reduce the pathogen load in a tank, but ozone also interacts with dissolved organics in a tank to make them less interactive so that they can easily be removed by a protein skimmer. This is why when the saltwater hobby was starting out forty years ago, the use of a protein skimmer coupled with an ozonizer was highly recommended. Fortunately we have come a long way since then. Those old ozonizers created ozone via an electric spark, much like lightning does. Newer ozonizers are now in a solid state and produce ozone through corona discharge technology where oxygen molecules pass over a specially designed light source to produce the ozone.

Ozonizers clean the water chemically by having this extra oxygen molecule interact with living material as well as with the by-products of metabolism. The relative cleanliness of the water can be measured by the reduction-oxidation (redox) potential of the water. In most healthy systems, this redox potential is usually between 300 - 350mV without the use of ozone. In order to measure the redox potential a special electronic monitor and probe needs to be used. With ozone, redox potential can easily be raised to 400 - 500mV. This higher level is closer to that seen in the waters surrounding a reef, where levels of dissolved organics are very low. This is why the fish seem to be suspended underwater. The same effect can be achieved in an aquarium with the use of ozone. The ozone removes much of the yellowing compounds that tend to accumulate in a reef tank over time. By intermittently using ozone the water can be kept crystal clear, even more so than can be achieved with the use of carbon.

Ozone does not need to be run constantly, but can be run for short periods of time once a month to keep a tank crystal clear or when the redox potential drops below a certain level. Ozone should also be utilized when a tank is being started and live rock is being cured to remove as much of the dissolved organics as possible. Ozone should also be run constantly when a disease breaks out. Ozone cannot affect the pathogens that are on the fish, but if any free-swimming pathogens come into contact with it in its reaction chamber or in the skimmer they will be killed. Ozone needs to be kept out of the tank as it bleaches any organic matter that it comes into contact with. It should either be bubbled into a protein skimmer or into its own reaction chamber. When it is in use, the water should then flow over carbon to keep any ozone from reaching the tank itself. If ozone does get into the tank it can cause bleaching of the gills of fish, so this needs to be avoided.

As noted above, ozone is highly interactive and as a result it needs to be used with special equipment. Any tubing that it passes through needs to be of silicon, which does not interact with ozone. If regular airline tubing is used, it will become hard and brittle quite quickly when exposed to ozone. Similarly, most plastics will become brittle and crack when exposed to ozone so be careful when choosing a vessel for introducing ozone. Ozone also breaks down quickly when exposed to high humidity so it is best to run the air going into the ozonizer through an air drier. This will dramatically increase the production of ozone.

As noted above, it is not necessary to run ozone constantly in any system. However, having ozone available when necessary is a worthwhile investment, especially when its use makes the tank so clear that the fish seem like they are suspended without any water around them.

 

[crescent1]

thats old news

 

[Brad A.]

Re: some good reading from euroreef

Re: some good reading from euroreef

Q#3. Should I use OZONE (O3) in my Euro-Reef protein skimmer to control my ORP?

A#3. Our official position is, NO, you should not use OZONE in your Euro-Reef protein skimmer. While the answer to this question is our opinion, there are some important "facts" to that have lead us to our current position and they should be considered. ORP, or Oxidation Reduction Potential, is a very misunderstood measurement and also an overused and abused term. While ozone will "technically" affect/adjust your ORP, it is far more desirable to achieve a stable ORP level via proper protein skimming, regular small water changes, and the consistent use of small amounts of GAC (Granular Activated Carbon). Ozone is extremely dangerous and very difficult to use properly. It should most definitely NOT be used in a protein skimmer if your intent is to gain the maximum benefit from it with the least amount of hassle. The reason it should not be used in a skimmer is that it inhibits the skimming process and defeats the purpose of the skimmer all together because it oxidizes organics (converts them into Nitrate) that the skimmer is supposed to remove BEFORE they are oxidized. If your intent is to use OZONE as a prophylactic to control pathogens ( parasites, bacteria etc,.), then a much better medium for ozone use is an ozone reactor. This device will allow you to get the maximum benefit from ozone while allowing the best opportunity to make sure that residual ozone does not enter into the filtration system/ sump or the aquarium proper where it can be very damaging. At the very least one should learn all one can about OZONE and weigh the drawbacks and benefits as an informed decision is ALWAYS a better decision.

There is no doubt that ozone has made a positive improvement to my sps reef tank. The tank is cleaner, nitrates are undetectable (by salifert test kit). So I dont know where they got most of their ideas????

 

[joelsaxton]

IMO running a constant low level of ozone is best. I have a 240 and run between 10-50 mg/hr O3 and have my aquacontroller stop it if ORP exceeds 365. The water is crystal clear and the fish all seem happy. The corals are also starting to go nuts.

 

[justgettinstarted]

Re: some good reading from euroreef

Re: some good reading from euroreef

Originally posted by crescent1
It should most definitely NOT be used in a protein skimmer if your intent is to gain the maximum benefit from it with the least amount of hassle. The reason it should not be used in a skimmer is that it inhibits the skimming process and defeats the purpose of the skimmer all together because it oxidizes organics (converts them into Nitrate) that the skimmer is supposed to remove BEFORE they are oxidized.

I am sorry but as i must disagree with this. I do not know who wrote this, but here are my qualifications for my responce:

2 semesters left before i get my PhD in synthetic organic chemistry, i know the mechanism of all the reactions pertaning to ozonolysis, and am in the process of writing an article on how it works in the home aquarium.....

How can a skimmer oxidize an olefin to a nitrate???????????? thats a new reaction to me... ozone breaks apart organic compounds wherever there are C-C double bonds into 2 pieces forming carboxylic acids which do not contain nitrogen, let alone a nitrate group.... we can then call these "fatty acids"... when the skimmer makes bubbles these bubbles are very polar at the surface and the carboxyl group sort of sticks to the surface of this bubble as a film (almost as if it were a mycell) which is then transported out of the water and into the collection cup.

So in my opinion that is a total bogus claim by someone who doesnt know what they are talking about. I have had discussions with a professor here who is a well known atmospheric chemist who studies sea spray and how it causes these organic compounds to go into the atmosphere via a very similar process

Just my educated opinion

LOL @ prophylactic

 

[corro]

Been following this thread and reading up on ozone .. I'm curious, what are the benefits and/or detriments of running ozone through a ozone reactor vs. a skimmer?

 

[Mislav]

I want to know how often should the activated carbon be replaced if I run for example 24/7 100 mg of ozone in 200 G system?
How much of activated carbon is neaded for ozone removal? Is ozone depleeting carbons ability to adsorb or it breaks down in carbon? Do we need to replace carbon because of ozone buildup in it or because buildup of organics in carbon?

 

[fish100]

Ok, with activated carbon, it will exchange some heavier molecules for lesser ones, like a bromide for a "phate", BUT, these things are at best unpredictable. The reactive molecules ozone makes, like bromates are according to the experts the things which are more dangerous then the radical of ozone.

Basically activated carbon is effective for three to four weeks. After that, there is besides absorbency issues like not removing chemicals or 03 from the water, issues of things being leached back into the water.

BTW, 100 Mg of ozone in a 200 gallon is WAY high over what a manufacturer recommends. Something like 5-10 Mg of ozone per 40 gallons is more normal, I think, with less of this scale for reefs, ie. 5 or 6 Mg per hour.

HTH.

 

[a4]

Justgettingstarted. Does ozone attack single bonds or just double bonds?
How about amino acids, what would the product be from the addition of ozone to something like Lysine?

Would you expect ozone to oxidize octane down to co2 and water?
How about 1-hexene?
thanks

 

[vmichael]

I just started with a 300mg/hr Enaly unit I turn it on for about 8 hrs/day. I dont run a dryer or direct carbon. It is injected into my ASM g4 skimmer and now my whole tank room smells like fish $##t. The difference in water clarity the next day was astonishing. I thought it was clear before.

Derek

Is the fact that the "tank room" smells like fish poopy a good thing or a bad thing?

Why does it do that?

 

[justgettinstarted]

Justgettingstarted. Does ozone attack single bonds or just double bonds?

Only carbon carbon double bonds

How about amino acids, what would the product be from the addition of ozone to something like Lysine?

lysine has no c=c so there should not technically be any reaction. In all actuality depending on the concentration of the O3 in the water amines can be oxidized to corresponding N-Oxide, but i am not sure there have been any studies done to see how often this actually happens in the fish tank.

Would you expect ozone to oxidize octane down to co2 and water?

no, there should be no reaction

How about 1-hexene?
dunno why you would have hexene in you water but ozonolysis of hexene in the presence of water should lead to the formation of 1,6-hexanedioic acid.

 

[JB NY]

I always find people debating ozone and it use interesting. The way the "experts" talk about using ozone and the "dangers" that it could pose really don't have anything to do with the way most of us are using ozone in our SPS tanks. Myself as well as most people I know are now using ozone to increase water clarity and light penetration in our SPS tanks. When set up and used for this purpose, the possible dangers from ozone are almost nonexistent.

You can run it 24/7 or for a few hours a day, either way I feel you get the same results, crystal clear water. If your skimmer can be used with ozone (I think any skimmer you pay good money for should be able to work with ozone, PVC and acrylic are ozone safe), you should be injecting it into the inlet for the venturi or beckett. The main thing to keep in mind that when running ozone you should not smell anything from it's use. If you can smell ozone (to me it's the same smell a laser printer makes when it's printing) you are using too much and should simply dial it sown a bit. FWIW I am running my red sea 200mg ozone generator at about 15-20% (280 gallons total system volume) and I can smell no ozone at all when it is running. Also, I run ozone only for 4 hours a day. For the last 2 years I have been using the same vinyl tubing to connect the ozone generator to my skimmer and it still has not become brittle. When it does it's only pennies to replace.

I have yet to ever read a post of someone nuking their tank with ozone. But have read many threads about people destroying their tank when using kalkwasser, so what's more dangerous?

Personally I think ozone use for water clarity is a great help in keeping an SPS tank and highly recommend it.