Here's the rub. If you don't like it and you don't watch it, the show will go away. People watching and talking about it keep it in the news. That keeps it on the air. Just let it go away.
TV Tanked learns a hard lesson from hasty fish stocking.
- Thread starter Coral Dreams
- Start date
Here's the rub. If you don't like it and you don't watch it, the show will go away. People watching and talking about it keep it in the news. That keeps it on the air. Just let it go away.
r-balljunkie
Registered Reefer
Jerry Springer for reefers........u cant help but watch
eyesinthedrk
New member
Oh hey, look, yet another thread hating on tanked. On the bright side at least the minimum wage LFS kids are catching a little break.
SVTour
New member
...or the folks at Petco. :beer:
gone fishin
New member
just because I watched a 30 minute home renovation show does not mean I should start knocking down walls in my home. If I do and my roof collapses is it the shows fault? Or is it mine for not doing more research.
These guys build tanks on a TV show. If someone decides to do a tank after watching the show and not doing any research. Then as a result it crashes then they are not the sharpest tools in the shed and should not be doing a tank in the first place.
These guys build tanks on a TV show. If someone decides to do a tank after watching the show and not doing any research. Then as a result it crashes then they are not the sharpest tools in the shed and should not be doing a tank in the first place.
Koral_Keeper
In Memoriam
I think the OP hit the nail on the head with his post and did so without any bashing. I thought it was quite constructive.
newbie2011
Member
Well i beg to differ on that i love the show sometimes they have there ups and downs but i started my tank because of them and i didn't end up doomed are a lot of money wasted i try to keep it simple and easy always looking for help on here im not really new to this other then the dosing parts and types of equipment but i have had several successful tanks
<a href="http://s1222.photobucket.com/user/aparmerr/media/IMG_16401.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd493/aparmerr/IMG_16401.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_16401.jpg"/></a>
So I have posted on these Tanked threads before, and it turned into some great discussion. I can come off a little argumentative so I will try and tone it down, as this is just my opinion. This argument is crazy in my eyes due to the fact these are tank BUILDERS, not suppliers, and not the maintenance company. To me this is like buying an aqueon or innovative marine, I would not depend on them to tell me what I can and can’t stock in my tank? There has been a ton of scrutiny placed on the show and, a lot of info has come out. Couple key points are in EVERY tank build a maintenance company is contracted to care for the livestock and tank after build is completed (it is up to the customer to continue the contract with this company). A lot of the fish that are stocked at the end of the build are removed as soon as shooting is over, strictly in there for the pretty colors for TV. After the tank is built and set up the husbandry side of this hobby does not fall on 2 guys that built the tank, it falls on the customer who purchased the product to either continue the contract with the hired maintenance company or take care of the tank themselves. I am yet to see how these two guys are doing anything wrong? I understand their show could talk a little more about the acclimation process, tank cycle, and appropriate levels but, it’s for entertainment that’s all. Other thing did anyone read the response from ATM none of the sharks came from the ocean, there was never a white tip in the tank a lot of facts were left out. This is just my opinion I would love to hear all of yours as well.
http://news.aquariuminfo.nl/atm-tanked-responds-to-the-coney-island-shark-drama/#.UcX8kBjD-1s
http://news.aquariuminfo.nl/atm-tanked-responds-to-the-coney-island-shark-drama/#.UcX8kBjD-1s
Khemul
New member
I do wonder sometimes if the anger and outrage that comes from these aquarium forums towards Tanked is the result of people really caring, or people that can't accept that people are doing things so completely backwards from what they insist must be done. It's like watching a bunch of experts sit around and laugh at a noob fumble around and messing up everything step, then coming to the shocking realization that the noob no only succeeded, but completely invalidated all the outcries from the expert about how it can't work.
The instant cycling. The instant stocking. The quick builds. The experts watch, expecting the silly amateurs to screw up, and when the build comes together (which it will since these aren't amateurs and it's an edited television show) at the end and succeeds, outrage! Because that's what half the replies are. Not, "oh, the poor fish!", but, "I can't believe those setups don't crash all the time!" and "I'm not surprised, with the way they set things up!"
It's television. The biggest problem with reality television, ESPECIALLY from Discovery, is that people believe that it is in any way a representation of reality. Discovery Communications is notorious for this. Their reality shows are so heavily scripted that they'd be easier (and probably cheaper) to make into fictional dramas or comedies. Why they insist on selling any of them as reality shows is quite the mystery. All of their shows require you to shut off your brain to watch them (Gold Rush for instance will drive a person nuts if they try to do basic math while watching it). The problem seems to come when the audience forgets to turn them back on afterwards.
The instant cycling. The instant stocking. The quick builds. The experts watch, expecting the silly amateurs to screw up, and when the build comes together (which it will since these aren't amateurs and it's an edited television show) at the end and succeeds, outrage! Because that's what half the replies are. Not, "oh, the poor fish!", but, "I can't believe those setups don't crash all the time!" and "I'm not surprised, with the way they set things up!"
It's television. The biggest problem with reality television, ESPECIALLY from Discovery, is that people believe that it is in any way a representation of reality. Discovery Communications is notorious for this. Their reality shows are so heavily scripted that they'd be easier (and probably cheaper) to make into fictional dramas or comedies. Why they insist on selling any of them as reality shows is quite the mystery. All of their shows require you to shut off your brain to watch them (Gold Rush for instance will drive a person nuts if they try to do basic math while watching it). The problem seems to come when the audience forgets to turn them back on afterwards.
reefgoddess808
New member
If I had the money I would still have them build me a tank, they do awesome work on that end of things, however I would stock it myself. Just have them build and install all the plumbing and such. I love that they use NSW now, but I have definitely noticed that they do not properly stock the tanks. I often wonder if they do it for show or if they really do leave the fish in there. Anywho, that's t.v.
Moort82
New member
I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned earlier but apparently the "facts" posted on reef builders weren't exactly correct. I read on the ATM website, before it was removed, that the white tip was actually a smooth hound and it didn't actually make it to the tank as it was unfortunately dead on arrival (something even the best planning can't prevent).
The tank was actually smaller, 3500g instead of 5000g and the black tip wasn't pulled straight from the sea but was rather, what they call their "lone shark", which has appeared in many of their tank builds. It spends some time in the display and then comes home. This may account for why it was settled so quickly and felt inclined to eat 2 not 3 lookdowns.
I've always thought what they did was very clever but really disagreed with the stocking. I don't care it is only for show. I'd much rather see a nice mix of community fish who would live long term in there. For instance when they built the pirate ship for the sick little boy and chucked a dozen Copperbands in. Poor little chap will see dead CB's when he wakes up for a few weeks.
Many people have said how they like fish tank kings better. I think tanked is a better show but is way to scripted for entertainment purposes. Makes them come over as annoying but i guess thats' how National Geo and Discovery market their programmes.
The tank was actually smaller, 3500g instead of 5000g and the black tip wasn't pulled straight from the sea but was rather, what they call their "lone shark", which has appeared in many of their tank builds. It spends some time in the display and then comes home. This may account for why it was settled so quickly and felt inclined to eat 2 not 3 lookdowns.
I've always thought what they did was very clever but really disagreed with the stocking. I don't care it is only for show. I'd much rather see a nice mix of community fish who would live long term in there. For instance when they built the pirate ship for the sick little boy and chucked a dozen Copperbands in. Poor little chap will see dead CB's when he wakes up for a few weeks.
Many people have said how they like fish tank kings better. I think tanked is a better show but is way to scripted for entertainment purposes. Makes them come over as annoying but i guess thats' how National Geo and Discovery market their programmes.
Yea the whole article is posted in my prev post, I hate when i only get to read half facts.
I 100% agree but, thats because we are in this hobby and know what keeping these fish comes with. A kid and his family is going to be WAY more into it with a black tip, huge queen angel, or a huge group of CB's. Just the way TV goes as long as they come out of the tank i have no issues with it.
Khemul
New member
Also keep in mind that just because you see a fish in the tank for the episode, doesn't mean that is the stocking of the tank.
Look at your standard everyday setup around here, or even on youtube. Notice a distinct lack of fish? Not that they don't exist, but that they are not out and about or all over the place. A small number of fish, half of which are hiding or on the other side of the tank from the area being looked at. This concept isn't lost on television producers. People want to see fish in those tanks. They don't want to see 2 clownfish off to the bottom corner of a 500 gallon tank. They want to see schools of fish patrolling the tank. And so, we get a tank filled with fish for television. Of course those fish won't make it, but the average viewer doesn't know this, so it works. Those fish only need to be in there for however long it tanks for the cameras to gather enough stock footage to edit into the episode. Then they can restock it with whatever the client actually wants in there (rather then what they pretended to pick out to 'surprise' the client).
Look at your standard everyday setup around here, or even on youtube. Notice a distinct lack of fish? Not that they don't exist, but that they are not out and about or all over the place. A small number of fish, half of which are hiding or on the other side of the tank from the area being looked at. This concept isn't lost on television producers. People want to see fish in those tanks. They don't want to see 2 clownfish off to the bottom corner of a 500 gallon tank. They want to see schools of fish patrolling the tank. And so, we get a tank filled with fish for television. Of course those fish won't make it, but the average viewer doesn't know this, so it works. Those fish only need to be in there for however long it tanks for the cameras to gather enough stock footage to edit into the episode. Then they can restock it with whatever the client actually wants in there (rather then what they pretended to pick out to 'surprise' the client).
SVTour
New member
I read ATM's response above. I must say, I'm impressed...and agree, they're not an educational show. I'm glad he talked about the cycling part as well, I had no idea they could do something like that (and always questioned it). Unfortunately for them, for every 100 people that read the bad review...they'll probably get 1 or 2 that get the true story.
Aside, I may become a fan...who knows :thumbsup:
Aside, I may become a fan...who knows :thumbsup:
slief
RC Sponsor
Given my experience with sharks, I will concur that the sharks were likely not in any state of shock let alone rushed through acclimation as was suggested by the tank owners and published in the original story. A shark in shock or one that was impoperly acclimated does not go on an eating frenzy so quickly. As such, I'd conclude that black tip was just fine much to the Lookdowns dismay.
As for Mort's statement based on his recount of ATM's response, that the Smooth Hound died prior to arrival, that is not the way I interpited their response. From what I gather, it died after acclimation, not before but at the same time, that is the nature of the beast and it does happen in this hobby. Nobody including ATM is immune to fish casualties.
That said, after reading the original article, ATM's rebuttal and response from bloggers with an apparent agenda, I err on the side of ATM. I think much of what was in the original story was in fact sensationalized and it would appear that there was a lack of fact checking on behalf of the original author (as duly noted by ATM) and perhaps a lack of knowledge on behalf of the tanks owner which is clear from his assumption of the sharks being in shock. Perhaps the smooth hound was but that can happen as we all know.
Here is ATM's response. I might have responded a bit more diplomatically but I can understand their contention given the ruckus this has apparently stirred up.
"This post is in response to the recent fishy article published by by Simone Weichselbaum and Stephen Rex Brown of the NY Daily News regarding the recent ATM install in Coney Island.
The article, along with its erroneous facts and insinuations, unfortunately has been picked up and repeated elsewhere on the net.
Here are the actual facts of the aquarium and the “incident” which has caused such a ruckus. It is clear that the charges contained in the story do not reflect the actuality of what transpired. “Sensationalism” is kind of like a “ghost story”. Its just something that other people talk about until it happens to you!
First, and most importantly, at no point did any sharks arrive in this aquarium (or any other ATM aquarium) directly from the ocean as stated in the article. This is absurd and completely false.
The blacktip shark in question resides in his own tank and was temporarily transported to the aquarium for the unveiling. His return to his home tank went as planned, and without issue. This shark didn’t “have to be” removed for any other reason than he was supposed to be removed to go back home to his tank. There are no injured sharks.
Two lookdown fish were eaten by the blacktip shark not three, and especially not “the whole aquarium”. This shark didn’t “snap”. A shark eating fish is typically described as “normal” rather than “snapping”. Despite that, this was uncharacteristic of this particular shark, but there are no certainties with wild creatures. Sharks and all animals are creatures of instinct and not programmed robots. Unpredictable things can happen even in the best of circumstances.
So that there is no misunderstanding, allow this to be very clear: At no time was there ever a whitetip shark in this aquarium. Therefore it is impossible for a whitetip shark to have died in the aquarium as the story claims.
One smoothhound shark unfortunately did perish. We are very saddened by this. This shark also did not come directly from the ocean. This shark had prior acclimation to captivity.
It is important to follow very strict protocol when handling marine specimens and ATM goes to great lengths to ensure that their habitat and acclimation is the best it can be. Fish keeping isn’t a perfect science. While many do exceptional in this field, no scientist, hobbyist, expert, handler, aquarium company, LFS, Youtube video personality, or blogger has a perfect record when handling amazing creatures that we have devoted our lives to. Like all of the aforementioned, ATM is not perfect and will also take this experience and use it to improve what we do. This is the way we roll.
Due to the inaccuracies and falsehoods in the story, ATM hopes a retraction is executed in light of its near complete defacing of the facts and subsequent circus it has caused. It is unfortunate that proper journalism procedures of fact-checking were not conducted by the original authors nor the other websites that carelessly repeated it.
In regard to the Coney Island Aquarium, here are the facts:
2 Lookdown fish eaten by blacktip
1 Smoothhound shark from captivity
0 Whitetip sharks included in this aquari0 Injured sharks
0 Amount of sharks that have ever went straight from the ocean to an aquarium by ATM
The aquarium is 3,500 gallons, not 5,000 gallons.
Not one of the losses of these three fish were due to any “rush” nor “improper procedure”. ATM followed the same procedures that always yield great results.
“BE WHAT WE WANT YOU TO BE”
ATM is often criticized because the television show does not “educate enough”. ATM could never “educate enough” on a show that isn’t about teaching aquarium keeping. ATM has never claimed to be, nor desired to be, a surrogate to education on all aspects of keeping aquariums. This is best handled at an LFS (local fish store) and hopefully on a personal level. What ATM does is not the stuff for beginners. It is a hobbyist’s responsibility to gain a proper education on aquarium keeping. And it is the goal of local LFS owners, their employees, expert bloggers and vloggers on Youtube (among many other resources) to perform this task. In 2013 there is a wealth of outstanding learning resources online for aquarium keeping.
ATM has great relationships with many LFS’s around the globe and one will never see ATM undermining their important roles for any reason. ATM does not undermine teaching roles of anyone else either, particularly when it comes to establishing bio-filtration. ATM does nothing with bio-filtration that is inappropriate nor impossible.
In response to the accusation of “rushing” tanks, we would like to stress to everyone that all ATM aquarium tanks are cycled instantly using imported nitrifying bacteria cultures. At no point ever does ATM even begin to even think about introducing fish into an un-cycled aquarium. That is simply preposterous. These cultures, which are contained in our product in the market called Colony, allow this to happen. This is the best biological nitrifying bacteria culture that money can buy. This product can be tested and verified by anyone. We repeat: No fish are ever added to aquariums with unfit bio-filtration.
RUMOR MILL AND THE MISINFORMED
For the past year and a half it has been a field day for bloggers, reporters, and aquatic forums for creating and repeating untruths and here-say based on what is seen on television. Through this time Shark has held its proverbial “tongue”, but rumors and now lies have entered into the fold that can’t be ignored.
It is realized that due to the ATM name being on worldwide television we are faced with much scrutiny. ATM doesn’t have the luxury of conducting business and experiencing the ups and downs privately without the world watching under a microscope like every other entity in the aquatics business. ATM is fearless and up for that challenge. However, since the show started ATM has never been questioned directly about the factual basis of much, leaving only the assumption that agendas have taken priority over the desire for the actual truth. Even ATM Aquarium Products were reviewed and dispelled before they were even available for testing (much less review), while stealing our proprietary images and using them without our permission in their hit pieces. We will allow use of our images to these parties, but will not allow the untruths below them to go unchecked.
Obviously reviews like these have been proven wrong now that ATM products are a global brand proudly serving ten countries abroad with fantastic, professional partners based entirely on their performance. These products, preferred now by those who have actually used them, were actually slandered as “snake oil” by one blogger that decided to go so far as to do so without ever providing any kind of test results or claiming any kind of experience with them, even though by that point were easily available to be tested. This is saddening.
But what is even more unfortunate is that our door is, and always has been, open to questions and fact seeking regarding these products. Since this door was never even knocked upon by some before formulating conclusions, it puts into question the credibility and subjective nature of such journalism.
ATM understands very well that ordinary companies generally don’t have to make statements like these. What’s sad is that is necessary. But ATM is no ordinary company. ATM stands alone with the world’s eyes upon the Blue Shark. Opinions, perceptions, and all that go with that are free and welcome. However, ATM will not be a piñata for those who print, repeat, and syndicate untruths. That is where the line is drawn.
It is important to share ATM’s side of the story to get the truth out about many subjects. ATM will not allow the only information available to be by bloggers that only possess bad information passed along to them from uninformed parties. That way people have more information with which to draw their own, and more importantly, accurate conclusions.
Thanks to all of our fans, customers, partners foreign and domestic for your unwavering support of ATM. You have given us the opportunity of a life time to bring popularity and outstanding new tools to aquatics! There is much more from ATM on the way this year that will continue to change the world of aquatics!"
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2013/06/acrylic-tank-manufacturing-kills-shark-goes-on-the-defense.html
As for Mort's statement based on his recount of ATM's response, that the Smooth Hound died prior to arrival, that is not the way I interpited their response. From what I gather, it died after acclimation, not before but at the same time, that is the nature of the beast and it does happen in this hobby. Nobody including ATM is immune to fish casualties.
That said, after reading the original article, ATM's rebuttal and response from bloggers with an apparent agenda, I err on the side of ATM. I think much of what was in the original story was in fact sensationalized and it would appear that there was a lack of fact checking on behalf of the original author (as duly noted by ATM) and perhaps a lack of knowledge on behalf of the tanks owner which is clear from his assumption of the sharks being in shock. Perhaps the smooth hound was but that can happen as we all know.
Here is ATM's response. I might have responded a bit more diplomatically but I can understand their contention given the ruckus this has apparently stirred up.
"This post is in response to the recent fishy article published by by Simone Weichselbaum and Stephen Rex Brown of the NY Daily News regarding the recent ATM install in Coney Island.
The article, along with its erroneous facts and insinuations, unfortunately has been picked up and repeated elsewhere on the net.
Here are the actual facts of the aquarium and the “incident” which has caused such a ruckus. It is clear that the charges contained in the story do not reflect the actuality of what transpired. “Sensationalism” is kind of like a “ghost story”. Its just something that other people talk about until it happens to you!
First, and most importantly, at no point did any sharks arrive in this aquarium (or any other ATM aquarium) directly from the ocean as stated in the article. This is absurd and completely false.
The blacktip shark in question resides in his own tank and was temporarily transported to the aquarium for the unveiling. His return to his home tank went as planned, and without issue. This shark didn’t “have to be” removed for any other reason than he was supposed to be removed to go back home to his tank. There are no injured sharks.
Two lookdown fish were eaten by the blacktip shark not three, and especially not “the whole aquarium”. This shark didn’t “snap”. A shark eating fish is typically described as “normal” rather than “snapping”. Despite that, this was uncharacteristic of this particular shark, but there are no certainties with wild creatures. Sharks and all animals are creatures of instinct and not programmed robots. Unpredictable things can happen even in the best of circumstances.
So that there is no misunderstanding, allow this to be very clear: At no time was there ever a whitetip shark in this aquarium. Therefore it is impossible for a whitetip shark to have died in the aquarium as the story claims.
One smoothhound shark unfortunately did perish. We are very saddened by this. This shark also did not come directly from the ocean. This shark had prior acclimation to captivity.
It is important to follow very strict protocol when handling marine specimens and ATM goes to great lengths to ensure that their habitat and acclimation is the best it can be. Fish keeping isn’t a perfect science. While many do exceptional in this field, no scientist, hobbyist, expert, handler, aquarium company, LFS, Youtube video personality, or blogger has a perfect record when handling amazing creatures that we have devoted our lives to. Like all of the aforementioned, ATM is not perfect and will also take this experience and use it to improve what we do. This is the way we roll.
Due to the inaccuracies and falsehoods in the story, ATM hopes a retraction is executed in light of its near complete defacing of the facts and subsequent circus it has caused. It is unfortunate that proper journalism procedures of fact-checking were not conducted by the original authors nor the other websites that carelessly repeated it.
In regard to the Coney Island Aquarium, here are the facts:
2 Lookdown fish eaten by blacktip
1 Smoothhound shark from captivity
0 Whitetip sharks included in this aquari0 Injured sharks
0 Amount of sharks that have ever went straight from the ocean to an aquarium by ATM
The aquarium is 3,500 gallons, not 5,000 gallons.
Not one of the losses of these three fish were due to any “rush” nor “improper procedure”. ATM followed the same procedures that always yield great results.
“BE WHAT WE WANT YOU TO BE”
ATM is often criticized because the television show does not “educate enough”. ATM could never “educate enough” on a show that isn’t about teaching aquarium keeping. ATM has never claimed to be, nor desired to be, a surrogate to education on all aspects of keeping aquariums. This is best handled at an LFS (local fish store) and hopefully on a personal level. What ATM does is not the stuff for beginners. It is a hobbyist’s responsibility to gain a proper education on aquarium keeping. And it is the goal of local LFS owners, their employees, expert bloggers and vloggers on Youtube (among many other resources) to perform this task. In 2013 there is a wealth of outstanding learning resources online for aquarium keeping.
ATM has great relationships with many LFS’s around the globe and one will never see ATM undermining their important roles for any reason. ATM does not undermine teaching roles of anyone else either, particularly when it comes to establishing bio-filtration. ATM does nothing with bio-filtration that is inappropriate nor impossible.
In response to the accusation of “rushing” tanks, we would like to stress to everyone that all ATM aquarium tanks are cycled instantly using imported nitrifying bacteria cultures. At no point ever does ATM even begin to even think about introducing fish into an un-cycled aquarium. That is simply preposterous. These cultures, which are contained in our product in the market called Colony, allow this to happen. This is the best biological nitrifying bacteria culture that money can buy. This product can be tested and verified by anyone. We repeat: No fish are ever added to aquariums with unfit bio-filtration.
RUMOR MILL AND THE MISINFORMED
For the past year and a half it has been a field day for bloggers, reporters, and aquatic forums for creating and repeating untruths and here-say based on what is seen on television. Through this time Shark has held its proverbial “tongue”, but rumors and now lies have entered into the fold that can’t be ignored.
It is realized that due to the ATM name being on worldwide television we are faced with much scrutiny. ATM doesn’t have the luxury of conducting business and experiencing the ups and downs privately without the world watching under a microscope like every other entity in the aquatics business. ATM is fearless and up for that challenge. However, since the show started ATM has never been questioned directly about the factual basis of much, leaving only the assumption that agendas have taken priority over the desire for the actual truth. Even ATM Aquarium Products were reviewed and dispelled before they were even available for testing (much less review), while stealing our proprietary images and using them without our permission in their hit pieces. We will allow use of our images to these parties, but will not allow the untruths below them to go unchecked.
Obviously reviews like these have been proven wrong now that ATM products are a global brand proudly serving ten countries abroad with fantastic, professional partners based entirely on their performance. These products, preferred now by those who have actually used them, were actually slandered as “snake oil” by one blogger that decided to go so far as to do so without ever providing any kind of test results or claiming any kind of experience with them, even though by that point were easily available to be tested. This is saddening.
But what is even more unfortunate is that our door is, and always has been, open to questions and fact seeking regarding these products. Since this door was never even knocked upon by some before formulating conclusions, it puts into question the credibility and subjective nature of such journalism.
ATM understands very well that ordinary companies generally don’t have to make statements like these. What’s sad is that is necessary. But ATM is no ordinary company. ATM stands alone with the world’s eyes upon the Blue Shark. Opinions, perceptions, and all that go with that are free and welcome. However, ATM will not be a piñata for those who print, repeat, and syndicate untruths. That is where the line is drawn.
It is important to share ATM’s side of the story to get the truth out about many subjects. ATM will not allow the only information available to be by bloggers that only possess bad information passed along to them from uninformed parties. That way people have more information with which to draw their own, and more importantly, accurate conclusions.
Thanks to all of our fans, customers, partners foreign and domestic for your unwavering support of ATM. You have given us the opportunity of a life time to bring popularity and outstanding new tools to aquatics! There is much more from ATM on the way this year that will continue to change the world of aquatics!"
http://blog.aquanerd.com/2013/06/acrylic-tank-manufacturing-kills-shark-goes-on-the-defense.html
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