vinegar dosing
- Thread starter biecacka
- Start date
wmdick_2007
New member
Vinegar is bacteria food --- may break down the organics faster. I do not believe it would have any effect on total nitrates. I will check back, I may learn something !
Alex T.
Active member
Vinegar definitely has an affect on nitrates and phosphates. It's a common carbon dosing source that many on this site, including myself have used to lower nitrates and phosphates in our aquariums. A good strong skimmer is a must. Carbon dosing should never be done without a protein skimmer...and a very good one I may add.
Vodka, vinegar and sugar are all used for this exact purpose. Look up Randy's article in ReefKeeping magazine on carbon dosing to get the lowdown on how to start, what to expect and how to adjust. Know what you are doing before you start. This is very important. You may find it works for you if a low nutrient reef tank is what your ultimate goal is.
Vodka, vinegar and sugar are all used for this exact purpose. Look up Randy's article in ReefKeeping magazine on carbon dosing to get the lowdown on how to start, what to expect and how to adjust. Know what you are doing before you start. This is very important. You may find it works for you if a low nutrient reef tank is what your ultimate goal is.
If you have a good skimmer, the vinegar might help convert the nitrate into skimmable compounds. This article might help:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
It's about vodka dosing, but that's very similar to dosing vinegar in effect. You need about 8 times as much vinegar by volume to have the same amount of organic carbon.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php
It's about vodka dosing, but that's very similar to dosing vinegar in effect. You need about 8 times as much vinegar by volume to have the same amount of organic carbon.
wmdick_2007
New member
I thought about those views before I answered. I hope it works for you.
HighlandReefer
Team RC
A lot will depend on the specie of algae pest you have. Some algae species are very difficult to eliminate whereas others are easily controlled by using the recommended standard for algae control, which includes reducing both nitrate and phosphate levels to below detectable levels along with removing the pest on a regular basis.
wmdick_2007
New member
There are just too many unknowns to recommend vinegar, vodka, bio-pellets, etc., low PH, low ALK, flow problems, things going anaerobic --> hydrogen sulfide gas, skimming etc.,
I find no fault, just a lot to adjust to for most.
I find no fault, just a lot to adjust to for most.
Been dosing vodka and vinegar for over two years. It keeps nitrates at <.1ppm and PO4 ,<.05ppm in a heavily fed system. Sugar caused problems for lps. I think it's important to measure NO3 and PO4 regularly when dosing and it's very important to start with small doses and amp up slowly.
wmdick_2007
New member
I don't like being the odd ball out, read this and decide : http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/water/72-heterotrophic-bacteria.html
Now, after reading this you still want to dose vinegar, at least you know what will be happening in your tank.
Now, after reading this you still want to dose vinegar, at least you know what will be happening in your tank.
Carbohydrates including monomers like sugar( glucose,sucrose etc) are higher up the chain in the anaerobic process digestion than vodka( ethanol) and vinegar( acetic acid) are. They go to acetate eventually but take an extra set or two of bacteria to get there. These extra processes seem to cause some problems in some cases such as darkening and recession in some lps. Some folks report faster NO3 reduction with sugar than vodka and vinegar though.
To be clear, I wouldn't dose any organic carbon unless nitrates were continually high as NO3 and PO4 tend to be in well fed high bioload tanks.There are some risks of total carbon buildup and in the case of overdosing an oxygen depleting oxygen bloom is possible. When dosing strong skimming and granulated activated carbon are needed,imo, to aerate and help remove excess organic carbon. Testing NO3 and PO4 should be a first step in deciding whether or not it is needed.
Yogre
Cheesehead Reefer
That article deals with freshwater tanks. While analagous, I think there are some significant differences that have to be accounted for. Randy has stated many times that nitrite, for example, is not nearly as toxic to marine fish as it is in freshwater. Also, large amounts of porous live rock provide lots of anaerobic areas for denitrification that (usually) aren't present in freshwater tanks... At least they weren't in mine.
Genetics' article in Reefkeeping provides a really good insight into carbon dosing in reef tanks. I've been dosing vinegar for 8 months with no ill effects, and before I started I nearly left the hobby I had such a bad hair algae infestation.
I do agree that carbon dosing is not for everyone, and plenty of reading should be done to understand what you're doing in your tank.
Greetings All !
Jean M. Jaubert 2008. Scientific considerations on a technique of ecological purification that made possible the cultivation of reef-building corals in Monaco. Advances in Coral Husbandry in Public Aquariums. Public Aquarium Husbandry Series, vol. 2. R.J. Leewis and M. Janse (eds.), pp. 115-126.
http://www.burgerszoo.eu/media/108803/chapter 12.pdf
Take a look at the graphic of equations on page 8. The very first equation is the extremely generalized form of why labile carbon source suplementation into marine aquaria is potentially useful. For those who don't want to wait for the download, the equation is:
NO3 + carbohydrates ---> N2 + CO2 + H2O
The "trick", of course, is in managing the "many unknowns" ... :bounce3:
Not JMO ... this is the science.
:thumbsup:
Kumda's "Aquarium Bacteria and Filtration Manifesto" (linked above), while interesting on several levels (especially for freshwater aquarists), is neither insightful, nor useful, for understanding how to manage the microbial ecology of captive marine ecosystems ... particularly with regards to the effects of supplementing a weak labile organic carbon source & electron donor like acetic acid ("vinegar").
Your point is very well-taken ... :thumbsup:
The potential impact of supplementing a weak labile carbon source & electron donor like acetic acid on water column nitrate concentration levels in marine aquaria has been well-documented for years. This one lays out the marine aquarist history and generalized biogeochemistry pretty well ...
Jean M. Jaubert 2008. Scientific considerations on a technique of ecological purification that made possible the cultivation of reef-building corals in Monaco. Advances in Coral Husbandry in Public Aquariums. Public Aquarium Husbandry Series, vol. 2. R.J. Leewis and M. Janse (eds.), pp. 115-126.
http://www.burgerszoo.eu/media/108803/chapter 12.pdf
Take a look at the graphic of equations on page 8. The very first equation is the extremely generalized form of why labile carbon source suplementation into marine aquaria is potentially useful. For those who don't want to wait for the download, the equation is:
NO3 + carbohydrates ---> N2 + CO2 + H2O
The "trick", of course, is in managing the "many unknowns" ... :bounce3:
Not JMO ... this is the science.
:thumbsup:
HighlandReefer
Team RC
Gary tanks for the input and especially the linky.
I love the links you provide.
I love the links you provide.
wmdick_2007
New member
mesocosm
The "trick", of course, is in managing the "many unknowns" ...
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Good articles --- I'll wait until all of the variables are found and the formula has been tested a few years !
I run a shallow sand bed --- about 4" in my sumps --- 2" mixed in my displays ---- deep hypoxic layer no !
The "trick", of course, is in managing the "many unknowns" ...
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Good articles --- I'll wait until all of the variables are found and the formula has been tested a few years !
I run a shallow sand bed --- about 4" in my sumps --- 2" mixed in my displays ---- deep hypoxic layer no !
