Vlamingi Tang

[tmz]

Mel, Stubborn adult... Sounds like you're calling on me.:spin3:

Let's back up a bit . It's Naymar's tank ,fish and $. I hope the fish does well and he gets enjoyment from it.BTW the Zebrasomma flavescens should do fine in the 65 g which is just a tad undersized for it. I believe S Michaels reccomends a 75 g for them.

:uzi: But since Todd commands that I keep my "yap shut" I certainly won't.The Vlamingi is clearly a poor choice for a tank less than 6 feet long and 2 feet wide .

Gary is on point and responding to the OP who asked for comment from folks who had experience with this fish. I wouldn't worry about appearing preachy Gary you give solid advice and do a very good and consistent job at it, in my opinion, and shouldn't hesitate to share your opinions. It is a responsibility for hobbyists to promote good husbandry not to avoid giving solid advice in a non acrimonious way because of some sense of potential confrontation.For me it's about sharing information and debating it if need be.

For those interested in more on this fish here is an article on the fish and the ethics of keeping it in smaller aquaria:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/Fish.htm:

 

[jfl14609]

So Tom are you saying that this guy should be fine in my 210 its 6 x 2 x29 in

 

[GMaquarium]

I personally usually have a problem seeing fish or animals in captivity that are known to be difficult to keep alive. Fish that outgrow most home aquariums should not be imported in such high numbers, but those that are around and healthy I would assume all could find homes.

I would disagree about fish dying in shops if not purchased. They are much more equipped to keep fish alive than hobbyists and have a network of customers and friends with various types and sizes of tanks. For the most part fish do not show up there at random. Although it happens once in a while, but a shop that keeps getting sharks, rays and huge tangs is making that decision not their supplier.

In my opinion the best thing the hobbyists can do is network together. Perhaps an on going forum thread of rehoming fish. Those who have large displays could come forward to adopt overgrown fish from others. We have a need for some sort organized fish rescue, for freshwater as well. If I wasn't so cramped for space we would have a couple of huge tanks or indoor ponds for all the unwanted giants in town.

 

[tmz]

So Tom are you saying that this guy should be fine in my 210 its 6 x 2 x29 in

I don't keep one personally but know a few that do well in the 6 foot tanks . I don't have a 6 foot tank. Keeping one in your tank would be consistent with recommendations in the write ups I've read as well and I'd go for it. I think they are beautiful and interesting.

 

[dreaminmel]

Mel, Stubborn adult... Sounds like you're calling on me.:spin3:

Haha, no I wasn't singling anyone out. I've been known to be stubborn on occassion too. Only reason I hopped in was because this is an old thread of Ray's that Gary bumped and then someone asked if it really used to be that hostile here before. RC seems to flow in waves... we go through calm times and also testy times. I just wanted to chime in that it's not new and it definately hasn't gone away.

Ray, Glad to hear you found a new home for him as you had planned. Sounds like he was happy enough growing up in your tank otherwise he may have passed before you had the chance to rehome him. :thumbsup:

 

[toddmh]

:uzi: But since Todd commands that I keep my "yap shut" I certainly won't.The Vlamingi is clearly a poor choice for a tank less than 6 feet long and 2 feet wide .
[/url]

Aww Tom I don't command nothing But the way this thread started I have seen many times on these and other forums..

Happy guy/gal with a brand new shiny(expensive) fish wanting to tell his forum mates/club mates about his new addition..Just to get slapped with some sort of URS mission statement,in not a really friendly kinda way..

Instead.. as out glorious president would say(this is a teachable moment)He might as well just gone over to Namyar house and punched him in the gut..Their is a HUGE difference between preaching a point of view and offering friendly advice..I must say,the people that can not tell the difference between the two "should keep their YAP shut" Their are plenty more that do know the differnce..This is NOT even close to Mel and Tom,everything I see you vets post is a treasure trove of info..

Sorry my previous statement was taken so wrong.. :worried:

 

[tmz]

No problem, Todd. I get your point . I just get cantankerous from time to time.

I think folks should feel free to comment honestly with some degree directness without making it personal or taking it personally unless it is. . Being overly subtle or sensitive (not that anyone above is) can make it difficult to communicate anything while being overly blunt can turn someone off.. See what I mean , I didn't really say anything.

 

[toddmh]

:beer:

HAPPY 4TH Everyone :celeb1:

 

[museumguy]

No problem, Todd. I get your point . I just get cantankerous from time to time.

I think folks should feel free to comment honestly with some degree directness without making it personal or taking it personally unless it is. . Being overly subtle or sensitive (not that anyone above is) can make it difficult to communicate anything while being overly blunt can turn someone off.. See what I mean , I didn't really say anything.

Tom, I hope to meet you in person one day, I'd like to buy you a beer.

+1 to everything you said in this topic

:beer:

 

[Mike1634]

sweet fish they eat everything and get hugeeee

 

[museumguy]

So Tom are you saying that this guy should be fine in my 210 its 6 x 2 x29 in

We have a Vlamingi and also a Unicorn tang here at the museum. Not sure how old they are, but at least 4 years old each. They are easily over a foot long and I'm not convinced that they are done growing.

I'm not going to engage in the argument/discussion about if its ok to buy a baby fish for a tank that it will outgrow with the intention of rehoming it later. However, I will say that I would not feel comfortable sticking either of those fish into a 210g tank at this time.

They are both powerful fish, with explosive swimming capabilities and in my opinion deserve a very large tank.

 

[mr86mister]

I guess growing up with computers and being obsessed with them. My life does not exist at one time or another without a social network or instant messaging system. I text on my phone, I email, I pm, I chat. Now with all this, in my years of online communication there is a way you can portray yourself as being nice, sincere, and honest without coming off as a goon. It's easy to teach someone something and give them your opinion without offending them. The proper usage of smilies, "lol"s, and subtle words will go a long way. I may be young to many but I've been playing online since I was 10...lol. We're here to make friends, teach, learn, and have fun. No need for anyone to be disrespectful or rude. Just play nice and have fun. Just remember that typing gives you the opportunity to delete the word you just typed in. Talking face to face does not.

Back to topic!
The Vlamingi Tang is gorgeous! I love them! They grow fast, they swim fast, the eat tons. As a young fish the recommendations seem ok in a 75. As an older juvenile through an adult they need tons of space. We as hobbyists want our fish to be healthy, happy, and beautiful. If the tang feels cramped, stressed, it will not show the proper colors or have the beautiful streamers. I would always recommend a large tank no less than 300 gallons BUT everyone has a right to their own decisions. As long as the fish is happy I am happy!:beer:

 

[Gravesj1s]

Hmmm,certainly been an unusal read.All I would add is that people definately have different ways of responding.Enough has probably been said and I really dont want to throw my opinion on any fire.


Quite a few tang threads lately ,recent addition myself of an Atlantic Blue is just to tempting for me to refrain from wanting to fuel a discussion.The comment on Scott Micheals 10.5" seems questionable.Anyone know where he drew his conclusion from?If this is true it would certainly point to a case of stunted growth.
A brief search I could only find what was being refered to as the "balloon theory"whitch describes how stunted growth seen from the outside mass (i.e.- fish is smaller than normaly found in the wild),although its body is smaller the internal organs continue to grow out of proportion and irregular.My "gut feeling" is its probably not a good thing.
So, I found myself wondering what is considered acceptable water volume for captive fish.No intent of derailing off offtopic here but looking at the common clown (ocellaris) Greg Shriemer wrote an article stating the ratio of fish to oceanwater was around 1 clownfish to 20000gals.Hmmmmm,well this fish is also known to be common in aquaria and rarely does it exceed 2.5-3.5" inches in captivity yet can live longer than its known to in the wild.Sorta makes a point to argue why the take home opinion is its ok for this fish to be kept and growth stunted yet another its not?
Back to the topic at hand.I dont know very much about the Valimigi Tang other than what I had read like anyone else it grows big,needs big tank ect...
I just thought fueling this thread in a more positive direction and throwing out some thoughts might be worth discussing and find it productive to a good forum.If anyone is interested.I would certainly like to know what you think.

Any thoughts?

 

[Gravesj1s]

~tmc,

I forgot to add the link you provided on pg 1 of this thread is not working ,I wish I could have read that before typing what was stated above.
Lol, I'm sometimes guilty of kicking myself in the teeth,hopefully thats not the case.

 

[dreaminmel]

I think everyone here pretty well wants to stay on the positive end. I just think sometimes our involvement in this hobby shows we can be passionate people and sometimes that passion comes out in ways that it shouldn't. I've known and respect all of the posters on the first page for a few years now and none of them are bad people, just passionate about this hobby of ours.

Here's a copy of the link Tom posted that should work...
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2003/Fish.htm

 

[Gravesj1s]

~Mel.
Yeah ,I know and I wholeheartedly agree . I admit I see agreeable points all around but to be direct I just think its beating a dead horse at this point .If I made a flame statement I would tend to think one or 2 posters pointing it out would be enough to make me reavaluate my position not 1/4 of the forum.Know what I mean.Especially 3 years ago.Thats all.no big deal.:beer:

Thanks again for a link.

 

[dreaminmel]

Especially 3 years ago.Thats all.no big deal.:beer:

lol I blame Gary. He bumped it and then took off... :lmao:

 

[Gravesj1s]

Mel any chance you know if Gregg Schiemer is an active member of reef central?I was going to ask him to comment in this thread,if you have any directory Id appreciate it.
Thanks -Graves

 

[dreaminmel]

I know on reefs dot org he's under GSchiemer but I'm not having luck finding that username on RC.

Edit: Found that username here but not active since June '07.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Mel was right

Mel was right

I left after (accidentally) bumping this thread up.

Greg Scheimer (sadly) passed away a few years ago.

I didn't mean to single Ray out for having a Naso in a small aquarium. The vast majority of older URS folks have tried a Naso in a (too small) aquarium at one point or another. I personally know most of the folks that have posted to this thread so far and I've never made an permanent enemy out of anyone (yet) by telling them their aquarium was too small for a Naso because (in the end) they realize the truth.

I know (or have met) most of the folks posting to this thread and THEY know my posts are well intended.

Fish are being taken from the ocean the same as the sun will rise tomorrow... it's gonna happen, a fact. After the fish go to the lfs, they will either die from stress or be sold. Now, here's the part that bothers me: if people are going to be ridiculed for purchasing a fish that will end up being too big for their tank, where else will the fish end up if they don't take it? Dying in the lfs??? Or perhaps with someone else who has NO CLUE about reef/fish keeping. In my opinion, there aren't a better group of people who are more qualified to responsibly care for a fish that would otherwise go elsewhere than the people right here on RC. Knowledge is power.

nobody was ridiculed, Mike.
The knowledgable reefkeeper/fishkeeper isn't the person at the LFS purchasing a Naso Tang
If something isn't purchased the supply chain won't lose money on 'em.
Remember: big Naso Tangs make good eats