Vortech Tunze and Jebao

[wishntoboutside]

Tunze for me. I still have old 6100's and still work fine. I use them to mix my salt now. my mp40 and mp60 worked ok but were always noisy. Tunze customer service for us American's is also great as well. Ecotech made everyone step up as now all include a controller were in the past the controller was always extra. The Gyres I do think had one of the most successful product launches in history as they sold a ton of those out of the gate. Ecotech needs something for thicker tanks as many have problems with 3/4 inch thick tanks. The quiet drives are much better then the old versions. I have never used a Jabao product so I can not say anything except they are much cheaper. My newest tank has two 6255 and say they are stronger then I expected. Happy with all my pump purchase but I continue to lean toward Tunze. Rosemont pumps are going to be interesting to follow as those are pretty nice.

 

[cincyjim]

My choice has been Tunze for years for water movement and main pump. Can't hear them at all and engineered very solidly.

 

[jda]

You draw the line at theft and stealing - it is pretty easy. Patents exist for a reason to drive R&D and innovation. There can be no competition without them, only eventual lack of evolution if products stop evolving or product annihilation if evolving products continue to be copied and the companies that do the R&D and really innovate go out of business. The false equivalencies to Japan or other countries that have competitive marketplaces is ignorant - China just steals intellectual property and copies it. If you own a Jeabo pump, you contributed in some very minuscule manner to the downfall of the American economy - probably not on purpose. I would rather people just say "so what, it was cheaper and I don't care" than start with the false equivalencies or that "theft is competition." There will be a day when every American has outrage for this when themselves or somebody that they know will have lost (or almost lost) a fortune/job to China copying their product and a general public that does not care as long as they save a few bucks - guess where I might fit into this?

I have no outrage for Maxspect - they do their own R&D and design and have not stolen anything that I know of. This is real competition, which is good for everybody.

The AquaMedic is made in Poland.

 

[LQT]

Educate me... as far as I know, Jebao ripped off Maxspect with their Crossflow pump, a clear copy of the Gyre. In the same vein, couldn't you say Ecotech ripped of the Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon DC pumps with their Vectra's, with others like Reef Octopus and Jebao following suit? I don't think any of the knockoff brands have copied the Vortechs to date, not that I'm aware of anyway...

For what it's worth, I only own Mag Drives, Cobalt MJs, Vortechs and Tunzes for water movement.

 

[Sparky0028]

Tunze-15 years of service before I had to replace.

 

[Potatohead]

You draw the line at theft and stealing - it is pretty easy. Patents exist for a reason to drive R&D and innovation. There can be no competition without them, only eventual lack of evolution if products stop evolving or product annihilation if evolving products continue to be copied and the companies that do the R&D and really innovate go out of business. The false equivalencies to Japan or other countries that have competitive marketplaces is ignorant - China just steals intellectual property and copies it. If you own a Jeabo pump, you contributed in some very minuscule manner to the downfall of the American economy - probably not on purpose. I would rather people just say "so what, it was cheaper and I don't care" than start with the false equivalencies or that "theft is competition." There will be a day when every American has outrage for this when themselves or somebody that they know will have lost (or almost lost) a fortune/job to China copying their product and a general public that does not care as long as they save a few bucks - guess where I might fit into this?

I have no outrage for Maxspect - they do their own R&D and design and have not stolen anything that I know of. This is real competition, which is good for everybody.

The AquaMedic is made in Poland.

This is exactly correct.

There is a huge difference between choosing to have your product manufactured in China (which is still disappointing, but pretty unavoidable today) and simply stealing something that was R&D'd by someone else. Maxspect did not steal the gyre design, Ecotech did not steal the the Vortech design.

 

[d0ughb0y]

hmmm, iphone is a good product and is very expensive, yet still sells very well even with plenty of other cheaper options (that explodes or catch fire). people are willing to pay a premium if it makes sense. it just does not to some for aquarium pumps, regardless if it is copied or not. if people get fed up paying overpriced iphone, I'm sure the cheaper options will sell better. That has already happened for aquarium pumps. Let's say hypothetically someone came up with 100% clone of iphone for half the price, and apple does not go after it, will people buy the cheaper version or still go with original apple iphone? It's a bit more complicated than a case of going cheap just because it is cheap.

 

[jda]

The big issue is that RE (for example, but anybody could) could file suit and take issue with anybody who they thought violated their IP. If found guilty, then this has to stop and reparations made. IP law and enforcement eventually keeps companies mostly honest - there have been huge violations over the years that people do get outraged about but they mostly work out in the end. Because of this, they most likely did enough R&D and produce change to make their product their own or there probably would have been suits. China has none of this and while there are good responsible Chinese companies, there are many who will just make a buck at the expense of others and light it all on fire as they destroy companies in another country.

I have always wondered why they did not copy the Vortech pumps - my guess would be that they did not think that they could make it any cheaper. The Controller design has been knocked off. I meant to ask ETM when I saw them at a show but I forgot.

 

[Potatohead]

hmmm, iphone is a good product and is very expensive, yet still sells very well even with plenty of other cheaper options (that explodes or catch fire). people are willing to pay a premium if it makes sense. it just does not to some for aquarium pumps, regardless if it is copied or not. if people get fed up paying overpriced iphone, I'm sure the cheaper options will sell better. That has already happened for aquarium pumps. Let's say hypothetically someone came up with 100% clone of iphone for half the price, and apple does not go after it, will people buy the cheaper version or still go with original apple iphone? It's a bit more complicated than a case of going cheap just because it is cheap.

Many people would, I bet at least half. I'm also sure that would be the case if people could buy cheap Chinese cars that don't have to go through any crash or emissions testing. That doesn't mean it's right.

If you wish to purchase Jebao instead of Tunze or Ecotech or Eheim or Sicce, that's your choice. Just like you can buy Triangle or LingLong instead of GoodYear or Michelin, or anything else that's stolen instead of researched, designed/engineered, patented and marketed. Then when the economy meets the sewer you can look in the mirror and understand why.

 

[jda]

...and apple does not go after it...

This is most of the point... These companies cannot go after a company in China that steals their IP, but just like Apple sued Samsung they could go after a company from another country (like Korea, Japan) or the US. There is nothing that they can do except watch their company suffer. These Chinese knockoff companies count on ignorance or indifference to sell their products - I think that most people do no know what they are buying, which I why I went on my soapbox. Now that you know that every unit sold hurts a good company, do you care enough to buy something else?

 

[LQT]

So where's the outrage with everyone, including Ecotech, in copying Klaus Jansen's Red Dragon DC pumps?

 

[Mrs. Music]

I get my Tunze today! I am super excited!

 

[LQT]

I get my Tunze today! I am super excited!

Nice. Whatcha get? I'd like to swap out 2 MP10s with a pair of 6095s to compliment my 2 6040s, but I'm wondering if the 6095s might be too much flow in a 36x18x20 tank.

 

[slief]

Educate me... as far as I know, Jebao ripped off Maxspect with their Crossflow pump, a clear copy of the Gyre. In the same vein, couldn't you say Ecotech ripped of the Royal Exclusiv Red Dragon DC pumps with their Vectra's, with others like Reef Octopus and Jebao following suit? I don't think any of the knockoff brands have copied the Vortechs to date, not that I'm aware of anyway...

For what it's worth, I only own Mag Drives, Cobalt MJs, Vortechs and Tunzes for water movement.

Not really. The Vectra and RD3 pumps are so different it's not even comparable. The only thing they have in common is the fact that they can be controlled. It ends there. It's about as good of an analogy as Toyota copying Ford because they are both cars. The pumps don't look the same, the voltages to the motors are completely different, the controller on the RD3 is vastly different not only in how it operates but how the controller itself removes the heat from the pump where as the Vectra uses the water to cool the pump. There is more but they are very different in every aspect. The first Jebao wavemakers were virtually a clone of the Tunze's from an aesthetic point of view. They also got into hot water with another company (aside from Maxspect) over patent infringement.

 

[d0ughb0y]

Many people would, I bet at least half. I'm also sure that would be the case if people could buy cheap Chinese cars that don't have to go through any crash or emissions testing. That doesn't mean it's right.

If you wish to purchase Jebao instead of Tunze or Ecotech or Eheim or Sicce, that's your choice. Just like you can buy Triangle or LingLong instead of GoodYear or Michelin, or anything else that's stolen instead of researched, designed/engineered, patented and marketed. Then when the economy meets the sewer you can look in the mirror and understand why.

This is most of the point... These companies cannot go after a company in China that steals their IP, but just like Apple sued Samsung they could go after a company from another country (like Korea, Japan) or the US. There is nothing that they can do except watch their company suffer. These Chinese knockoff companies count on ignorance or indifference to sell their products - I think that most people do no know what they are buying, which I why I went on my soapbox. Now that you know that every unit sold hurts a good company, do you care enough to buy something else?

that was a hypothetical example, to see if there is a 100% iphone clone, if people will buy it instead of original iphone.

But if we go with that is real today, we see that price has nothing to do with it, otherwise, apple would not be the biggest company in the world with the largest smartphone market share, ergo, if ecotech or tunze are really so great, then they need not worry about market share completely disappearing. The reality is, they are not Apple even if people think they are.

 

[kissman]

Love my Vortech's


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[LQT]

Not really. The Vectra and RD3 pumps are so different it's not even comparable. The only thing they have in common is the fact that they can be controlled. It ends there. It's about as good of an analogy as Toyota copying Ford because they are both cars. The pumps don't look the same, the voltages to the motors are completely different, the controller on the RD3 is vastly different not only in how it operates but how the controller itself removes the heat from the pump where as the Vectra uses the water to cool the pump. There is more but they are very different in every aspect. The first Jebao wavemakers were virtually a clone of the Tunze's from an aesthetic point of view. They also got into hot water with another company (aside from Maxspect) over patent infringement.

Very insightful... thanks!

 

[Potatohead]

that was a hypothetical example, to see if there is a 100% iphone clone, if people will buy it instead of original iphone.

But if we go with that is real today, we see that price has nothing to do with it, otherwise, apple would not be the biggest company in the world with the largest smartphone market share, ergo, if ecotech or tunze are really so great, then they need not worry about market share completely disappearing. The reality is, they are not Apple even if people think they are.

Of course price means something. Apple is (almost) a proprietary product which is why they can charge what they do. You asked if someone would buy a phone that was half price that was just like Apple, meaning they had the same amount of apps and ease of use, etc. I have no doubt that the answer is yes for a lot of people, even if the apps are buggy or the phone lasts half as long. It's the same reason people buy Vizio instead of Panasonic or Sharp TV's or any other numerous examples.

 

[cincyjim]

Nice. Whatcha get? I'd like to swap out 2 MP10s with a pair of 6095s to compliment my 2 6040s, but I'm wondering if the 6095s might be too much flow in a 36x18x20 tank.

Yes, two 6095s would be way too much in a tank that size. Of course you could always dial them down and they would work just fine but that would be up to you to consider cost to performance/use.

 

[d0ughb0y]

Of course price means something. Apple is (almost) a proprietary product which is why they can charge what they do. You asked if someone would buy a phone that was half price that was just like Apple, meaning they had the same amount of apps and ease of use, etc. I have no doubt that the answer is yes for a lot of people, even if the apps are buggy or the phone lasts half as long. It's the same reason people buy Vizio instead of Panasonic or Sharp TV's or any other numerous examples.

do people need iphone? heck no, yet it has the biggest market share, despite all the options available, I doubt it would change with a clone.
do we need vortech? also heck no, but it cannot match iphone's market share.

It's like when I was buying a used vortech from someone, I said I don't think I need it, and the seller said, right nobody needs a vortech, you only buy it if you "want" it. that is so true, and there is a heck of a lot of people that "wants" an iphone, but the same cannot be said about vortechs and tunzes.