Potatohead
New member
For a smartphone there are two realisitic options. For a pump, there's a lot more than that. If the only two options were EcoTech or Tunze, they would both sell a lot more pumps.
Vortech Tunze and Jebao
- Thread starter rog2961
- Start date
For a smartphone there are two realisitic options. For a pump, there's a lot more than that. If the only two options were EcoTech or Tunze, they would both sell a lot more pumps.
rtparty
Raise The Reef!
To compare anything in our hobby to smartphones is silly. Two different markets that cater to very different needs. One market has massive companies with billions and billions of dollars to throw around and market with. The other barely scrapes by each month. Don't kid yourself that they can be compared
FirstContact
Active member
I'll take my iPhone any day over a Vortech! It doesn't break down or need a new wet side. Plus, I get a brand new one every 2 years for a dollar!
The Jebao RW/PPs aren't like a Vortech. The motor mounts on the inside of the tank. Plus with LEDs who needs the motor to mount on the outside? Maybe Vortech will copy Jebao by making a model that mounts on the inside? A Chevy and a Honda are very similar. They all have 4 wheels an engine and headlights.
It's a global market and a global economy. All the CEOs decided to move the jobs to China because of cheaper labor. So Vortech IS made in China. If you can move the jobs, why not the rights to the product? There's nothing wrong with China producing finished user end products in our hobby.
My Jebao RW15s are awesome. As they get better and better, American companies will need to come up with a better product or not survive in the marketplace just like Detroit with Japan.
The Jebao RW/PPs aren't like a Vortech. The motor mounts on the inside of the tank. Plus with LEDs who needs the motor to mount on the outside? Maybe Vortech will copy Jebao by making a model that mounts on the inside? A Chevy and a Honda are very similar. They all have 4 wheels an engine and headlights.
It's a global market and a global economy. All the CEOs decided to move the jobs to China because of cheaper labor. So Vortech IS made in China. If you can move the jobs, why not the rights to the product? There's nothing wrong with China producing finished user end products in our hobby.
My Jebao RW15s are awesome. As they get better and better, American companies will need to come up with a better product or not survive in the marketplace just like Detroit with Japan.
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McPuff
New member
I have limited experience with Ecotech products... just an mp10, which was very loud. It was a temporary pump and it had pretty good amount of flow for such a low profile pump. But loud... I'm sure the QD are MUCH better based on what I've read.
Jebao have been my pump of choice for the past few years because of price mostly. I haven't been able to spend a ton but these have provided an amazing amount of flow. Being able to control them via Apex has also been a huge bonus. BUT... I have had a few circulation pumps fail on me over the past few months. Got a couple years out of them which is nice and given the price I can't complain much... but I do need replacements at some point. And having a return pump fail is not something I like dealing with!
Tunze products are rock solid in my experience so far. I've used a few of the circulation pumps, wave box, osmolator, CO2 regulator, care magnet, etc. I love everything I've used so far. Their attention to detail is superb and the durability is also very good.
That said, I'll be slowly replacing my Jebao circulation pumps with Tunze 6105 (maybe a stream 3) as I'm able. May try used first to get a nicer price and not have my wife kill me. Also want to replace the Jebao Return pump and probably go back to AC. The controllable DC has been really nice but I have had a couple instances where the power went out briefly and the return pumps didn't come back on. I'll be on work travel about 3 months over the next 6 months and I don't want my wife to be stuck with any failed pumps!! I know that Tunze will run and an AC pump will always come back on.
Jebao have been my pump of choice for the past few years because of price mostly. I haven't been able to spend a ton but these have provided an amazing amount of flow. Being able to control them via Apex has also been a huge bonus. BUT... I have had a few circulation pumps fail on me over the past few months. Got a couple years out of them which is nice and given the price I can't complain much... but I do need replacements at some point. And having a return pump fail is not something I like dealing with!
Tunze products are rock solid in my experience so far. I've used a few of the circulation pumps, wave box, osmolator, CO2 regulator, care magnet, etc. I love everything I've used so far. Their attention to detail is superb and the durability is also very good.
That said, I'll be slowly replacing my Jebao circulation pumps with Tunze 6105 (maybe a stream 3) as I'm able. May try used first to get a nicer price and not have my wife kill me. Also want to replace the Jebao Return pump and probably go back to AC. The controllable DC has been really nice but I have had a couple instances where the power went out briefly and the return pumps didn't come back on. I'll be on work travel about 3 months over the next 6 months and I don't want my wife to be stuck with any failed pumps!! I know that Tunze will run and an AC pump will always come back on.
FirstContact
Active member
I haven't had an issue with my DC pump coming back on line after a power outage; however, mine runs off my controller and is a Waveline. I can't spend $800 for a pair of wide flow Tunzes when the Tunzes I've already owned lasted only 4-6 years. My Jebao RW15s are already 3 years old (I run them off my controller) and they cost me $200. They're less now.
d0ughb0y
Active member
lol
business is business, we are comparing the scale here, not the absolute value.
neptune apex can compare in scale to apple, it has about the same, or even better market share. It does not have to worry too much about competition and it can demand a premium. $800 for a system. and yes, heck no we don't need an apex, but we want it.
the point is, if the product is really good, the market forces will take care of it. So it seems this is not the case for aquarium pumps, that's why we see the salesman aggressively sending out cease and desist letters because he realized the market forces is going against him.
it is not a question of price, as we know people will pay for the higher priced product, if they are really that good, regardless if there is competition or not.
FirstContact
Active member
Exactly!
More false equivalencies... Apple only has a phone that everybody wants to buy because of IP Law. This is the whole point that people are not able to get or just don't care - is it indifference or ignorance? Either way, the false equivalencies and rationalization looks childish.
Can people just say "I know the harm that this does but I don't care because they are cheaper?" At least that would be honest.
Can people just say "I know the harm that this does but I don't care because they are cheaper?" At least that would be honest.
FirstContact
Active member
A free market is a free market. We don't have protectionist values. If Vortech was protected by correct patents we wouldn't have Jebao in the US, but you can't patent the concept of a powerhead or a car; so, we do have Jebao in the US. If Vortech and Tunze were the only companies allowed to make powerheads it wouldn't be patent protection, it would be a monopoly. And we don't believe in protectionism or monopolies. We believe in free markets.
I get it now... it is ignorance. These companies do have patents. There is nothing in the US to go after. The stuff gets shipped from overseas where they cannot be touched. The copying companies rely on the indifferent or ignorant to survive and I guess that they are doing well.
xtrattitude4u
New member
I have a Jebao DC return pump and 2 power heads in a 120, and another in a mixing barrel. Had all for over 2 years, all still working flawlessly.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
FirstContact
Active member
If Vortech had a case, they would stop them at the ports. But they don't so they can't. Everything that comes in is heavily governed and inspected. America guarantees freedom of choice. If I wanted a Vortech I'd already have one but I don't want one so I don't own one because there are other choices in the market and Jebao is one of them.
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FirstContact
Active member
Go Jebao!
Potatohead
New member
You keep bringing up Vortech but EcoTech has a design that they (Jebao) haven't actually copied. You are free to think whatever you want as to why. They have blatantly copied Tunze and Maxspect. This is what the Chinese do. They copy, and their government protects it. Innovation does not exist there because it is cheaper and easier to copy if you know you can get away with it. It is wrong and too many people don't give a crap because they can save five bucks.
FirstContact
Active member
So we agree, the RW/PP series are an original, unique, and innovative design! This series moves a lot of water at very little expense. We just hope that Jebao improves the quality of life expectancy a little bit. (Mine are 3 years old and run off my controller.)
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Potatohead
New member
I don't hope that at all. I hope they remain piles of crap :lmao:
FirstContact
Active member
Great go Jebao! My RW/PP15s are awesome and have lasted 3 years!
If you don't like 'em don't buy 'em; and I won't buy any Tunzes or Vortechs! Because at 3 years I'm way ahead of the cost of a comparable pair of Vortechs at $700 and repairs and even farther ahead of the $800-$900 price tag of comparable Tunzes. :wavehand:
If you don't like 'em don't buy 'em; and I won't buy any Tunzes or Vortechs! Because at 3 years I'm way ahead of the cost of a comparable pair of Vortechs at $700 and repairs and even farther ahead of the $800-$900 price tag of comparable Tunzes. :wavehand:
At 12 years old on two and maybe 14 or 15 years on the old brown A/C Tunze 6050, I am way ahead of any Jebao user on dollars spent over the years. All were bought used and have had minimal parts replaced. I replaced bearings on the 6100's just because they were old, not wore out and they are still rocking the original impellers and props, I have less than $20 in parts. That is kind of hard to beat.
I am glad some people have got more than a year or two on the Jebaos, but they are in the vast minority of people, not the majority. Value isn't measured in money spent initially but money not spent for the duration of the product.
I am glad some people have got more than a year or two on the Jebaos, but they are in the vast minority of people, not the majority. Value isn't measured in money spent initially but money not spent for the duration of the product.
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