We need a new Controller Ecotech Please Save Us!

[bower23]

Yes, but how many switches will it support? Is it infinitely expandable?

My tank (not a nano) has a return, skimmer, two LED lights, circulation pump, fuge light, and ATO. I still have outlets open on my EB8. Reactors are run off a manifold. I don't want to pay for extra outlets I'll never use. If I need more, I can pick up an EB4 or EB8.

So you going to call Neptune and ask for a refund on the outlets you still have open because you don't want to pay for them? Or are you glad they are there in case you need them? So 10 outlets would send you into a fury? Or what if you needed 9... you are just going to buy a EB4 no problem and not complain about those 3 outlets you don't need. ???

 

[itzonlithai]

The money thing was never a huge point. Yes I would like to see it around $500 but if it's $700 because that is what the market will pay, then so be it. As long as it's a superior product. And the reason for suggesting Ecotech for the job is they would make sure their product communicates with the unit. It would be difficult for Neptune to build in control of another companies units and have to continually change their product to match. That would be ridiculous. But with Ecotech and AI having a large portion of the market with their lights and pumps, I just thought a controller to link all their systems together would be a perfect next step. It's like a company making the best engines, transmissions, and tires. Why not use that to make your own car?
Nothing Digital Aquatics is doing is going well.

I believe the profilux is a superior product, but it costs more than what I'm willing to pay. The beauty of Apex is that with one simple MODULE (WXM) you could wirelessly control your Vortech pumps and Radion lights from the same controller that controls the rest of your aquarium. Or if you have AI, you can buy the AWM Module. Sure, you can have these built in, but it would drive up the cost of the controller and deter potential customers that use one or the other or like me that use neither (I use Kessils). Why would I want to pay for a controller that has wireless control built in for a brand I don't want to use?

Edit: Money maybe not be an issue for some, but for most it's pretty important. Anyone can make a better controller, but why do it if it ends up costing so much that no one would buy it.

 

[rsuplido]

Love your ideas man, keep em coming! I hope more folks build up on them. Your main post was quite hard to read so I hope this summarizes it (please correct or expand/expound):

• controller with everything built-in, without having to buy additional modules
  • 3 packages/levels based on type of system (e.g. Nano, Reef, Pro)
  • Price: Reef (mid-level system): ~$500
  • Number of outlets: Nano: 6, Reef: 10-12, Pro: 2 x 10-12
  • Monitoring: Reef (mid-level system): pH, ORP, Salinity, float/switch inputs, leak detection bult-in by default (should not be purchased as extra modules)
  • Probes: sold separately based on need
  • Wireless built-in (and should be able to connect to VorTechs, Radions, Hydra, etc)
  • ETM should come out with feeder, webcam, and dosing pump that can be connected wirelessly to the controller; come out with skimmer that notifies controller when skimmer cup is full
  • Display: not needed -- use phone, tablet, or computer to control. Provide option for add-on display from a built-in port.
  • Maintenance scheduling: calendar based
  • system should be designed with web/internet interface by default

 

[bower23]

Ok so obviously I hit a nerve... just trying to suggest a new product evidently is demon work. Kinda like that Progressive commercial where they keep killing Flo. I'll send my recommendation to Ecotech and see what they think. Is there road blocks or reasons YOU may not like it? Of course. My shoes don't fit you, my pants don't fit you but someone made them and I bought them. New products get designed, manufactured, and sold every day. They don't stop because it might be hard or it will take time. I'm sure if it makes sense for Ecotech to make a controller they will. I'm sure they have a whole team of people working on new product. Neptune is not a bad product and I'm sure it fits many people. I bought one and I hope it fits my needs for now. It wouldn't make sense for them to build an all in one as they don't make any of the other components. Ecotech isn't going to call up Neptune and say hey we are making a new light and they is how you need to change your product. But if Ecotech was making the controller, I bet they would make sure it paired up with their lights and pumps. Anyhow... I've loved this forum since 2004 and this is the first time I've felt the urge to never come back. So before I start to hate this forum, I'm going to ask the Mods to please remove this thread. It's not worth the hassle. I want to continue to like this forum and contribute, although I guess I should just keep my mouth shut. Bummer...

 

[bower23]

I believe the profilux is a superior product, but it costs more than what I'm willing to pay. The beauty of Apex is that with one simple MODULE (WXM) you could wirelessly control your Vortech pumps and Radion lights from the same controller that controls the rest of your aquarium. Or if you have AI, you can buy the AWM Module. Sure, you can have these built in, but it would drive up the cost of the controller and deter potential customers that use one or the other or like me that use neither (I use Kessils). Why would I want to pay for a controller that has wireless control built in for a brand I don't want to use?

Edit: Money maybe not be an issue for some, but for most it's pretty important. Anyone can make a better controller, but why do it if it ends up costing so much that no one would buy it.

Again... I'm not saying the Apex is junk or isn't a fair option for those that it fits. But I'm saying for those of us that have Vortech, Radions, or Hydras a all in one wireless controller would be nice. That is all...

 

[bower23]

Love your ideas man, keep em coming! I hope more folks build up on them. Your main post was quite hard to read so I hope this summarizes it (please correct or expand/expound):

• controller with everything built-in, without having to buy additional modules
  • 3 packages/levels based on type of system (e.g. Nano, Reef, Pro)
  • Price: Reef (mid-level system): ~$500
  • Number of outlets: Nano: 6, Reef: 10-12, Pro: 2 x 10-12
  • Monitoring: Reef (mid-level system): pH, ORP, Salinity, float/switch inputs, leak detection bult-in by default (should not be purchased as extra modules)
  • Probes: sold separately based on need
  • Wireless built-in (and should be able to connect to VorTechs, Radions, Hydra, etc)
  • ETM should come out with feeder, webcam, and dosing pump that can be connected wirelessly to the controller; come out with skimmer that notifies controller when skimmer cup is full
  • Display: not needed -- use phone, tablet, or computer to control. Provide option for add-on display from a built-in port.
  • Maintenance scheduling: calendar based
  • system should be designed with web/internet interface by default

Yep, thanks for the summery. I wish someone wanted to add or contribute but it seems like everyone just wants to bash. Seems like a simple idea and made from so many complaints I've read or watched on youtube. I was just trying to give a solution.

 

[DaveMorris]

And yes this is ****ing me off because NO ONE took the spirit of this thread as a 'what if or what would you like to see' as I stated. No they just posted negative comments that does no one any good. I suggested something new and everyone got defensive of their own product.

The reason why you got the responses you did is because you have posed a completely unrealistic scenario. As many here have stated, in a very polite way for the most part, there is no way that this would happen for anywhere near your price point. It simply costs too much to make, especially when you factor in profitability to the manufacturer along with an industry standard retail mark up. Combine these very basic business principles with the enormous cost of software development which, by the way, is ongoing to keep up with the ever-changing products that people are putting out and users want to control, and you have an unrealistic cost. All of this in a relatively small market.

Yes there will always be problems with any company but if you had the right people working a software update can correct the problems. That's why they have software updates.. because it fixes problems.

This is very true. Guess what those software updates are going to need in order to be released by the company?? Money and lots of it.

The money thing was never a huge point. Yes I would like to see it around $500 but if it's $700 because that is what the market will pay, then so be it. As long as it's a superior product. And the reason for suggesting Ecotech for the job is they would make sure their product communicates with the unit. It would be difficult for Neptune to build in control of another companies units and have to continually change their product to match. That would be ridiculous. But with Ecotech and AI having a large portion of the market with their lights and pumps, I just thought a controller to link all their systems together would be a perfect next step. It's like a company making the best engines, transmissions, and tires. Why not use that to make your own car?
Nothing Digital Aquatics is doing is going well.

What if I have Vortech pumps and an AI light fixture? That just negated this whole argument.

And I politely disagree with you on your comment about Digital Aquatics. The RKE/RKL and Herpkeeper lines are still going strong, still being made, used, sold, etc. Are these units perfect and address every need? Nope, but nobody else is either. The new Archon is definitely going at least "well". Is it ready for prime time? Some say yes and some say no.

By the way, you should actually look at some of the controller packages that are available. If you are willing to go up to $700 for your controller purchase, what is currently available isn't too far off between the Apex, Archon, and Reef Angel. $700 for all you want? No, but fairly close depending on what you need. None of these companies are making millions off of us so I would say their margins are probably pretty tight as it is. I just think while what you want is great, it is simply unrealistic inside or outside "the box".

 

[rsuplido]

Yep, thanks for the summery. I wish someone wanted to add or contribute but it seems like everyone just wants to bash. Seems like a simple idea and made from so many complaints I've read or watched on youtube. I was just trying to give a solution.

Yup, quite sad. Maybe you should have posted this at the ETM Sponsor Forum if you want to get ETM's and ETM fans' attention.

 

[itzonlithai]

Again... I'm not saying the Apex is junk or isn't a fair option for those that it fits. But I'm saying for those of us that have Vortech, Radions, or Hydras a all in one wireless controller would be nice. That is all...

Oh, sorry. I know I used Neptune as a sole example, but I was just defending the modular design as opposed to having one unit with all the major players having controls built in. My point still stands that he support, even on the software side, for such a unit would be too much. Then there's the issue about paying for a controller that controls my Radions, but not needing (but still paying for) controls for AI.

Don't be discouraged from this forum, it contains a wealth of information and it's only because people contribute to discussions like this. Some ideas are a hit and miss, and it seems like the general consensus is that this is more of a miss. That does not mean that the opinion can sway or one party is right or wrong, it's just an opinion. Besides, the general public has been wrong before (especially when it comes to sports betting lol).

 

[Coelli]

Again... I'm not saying the Apex is junk or isn't a fair option for those that it fits. But I'm saying for those of us that have Vortech, Radions, or Hydras a all in one wireless controller would be nice. That is all...

Well, if you're wondering why your thread went south, here's one example:

Now if Neptune came out with this exact request and could build in control directly for Vortech, Radion, and Hydra products, great. But they have already proven they want you to buy modules and spend more money. So someone needs to knock them off their horse.

For someone who has the products you have, that's great and I can see why you want an integrated system. You just went further than that in your posts and some of your comments were snarky toward anyone who doesn't have the same needs/wants as you and finds the Apex already suits them fine.

Addit: By the way, I work in the software development industry. Software doesn't come cheap, nor does the QA, licensing, etc. that would be needed along with every new product that would need to be supported.

 

[bower23]

Oh, sorry. I know I used Neptune as a sole example, but I was just defending the modular design as opposed to having one unit with all the major players having controls built in. My point still stands that he support, even on the software side, for such a unit would be too much. Then there's the issue about paying for a controller that controls my Radions, but not needing (but still paying for) controls for AI.

Don't be discouraged from this forum, it contains a wealth of information and it's only because people contribute to discussions like this. Some ideas are a hit and miss, and it seems like the general consensus is that this is more of a miss. That does not mean that the opinion can sway or one party is right or wrong, it's just an opinion. Besides, the general public has been wrong before (especially when it comes to sports betting lol).

Sorry I have to disagree with the support being too much. It should actually cost a company (Ecotech) less than it would cost Neptune. They both have support staff but Neptune has to have people trained to support the unit and also support modules that control a different companies controller. If Ecotech made the controller, it would be far easier for them to program and support the unit as it would have been designed by the same people. It's like bringing in a Honda to a Ford repair shop (Neptune) or me bringing in my Honda into a Honda shop (Ecotech) Hope that makes sense. Also, as Radions and Hydras are owned by the same company, it would make sense to have them all controlled the same way. Yes this would take money as they just merged but it would make sense in the long run.

 

[bower23]

Well, if you're wondering why your thread went south, here's one example:



For someone who has the products you have, that's great and I can see why you want an integrated system. You just went further than that in your posts and some of your comments were snarky toward anyone who doesn't have the same needs/wants as you and finds the Apex already suits them fine.

I'm not snarky towards anyone that is happy with there current system. I said that somewhere. I'm snarky of the people that just want to bash my idea just because it doesn't fit them. If you are happy and like what you have, great. Live free! lol But I'm not happy with the status quo and would like to see someone stir up the pot. I know once I get my defective Apex up and running I'll probably love it. But do I still think it can be better? Yes absolutely. If Ecotech posted they were going to do exactly what I asked tomorrow, I would sell my Apex in a heart beat. If they don't, I will still enjoy my Apex and probably buy a bunch of modules and add a bunch of stuff I don't need to it. Just like thousands of other people. But I guarantee someday someone will come out with a simpler, all built in, affordable, wireless, controller. It's inevitable. It may be 10 years from now. But it shouldn't be.

 

[itzonlithai]

Sorry I have to disagree with the support being too much. It should actually cost a company (Ecotech) less than it would cost Neptune. They both have support staff but Neptune has to have people trained to support the unit and also support modules that control a different companies controller. If Ecotech made the controller, it would be far easier for them to program and support the unit as it would have been designed by the same people. It's like bringing in a Honda to a Ford repair shop (Neptune) or me bringing in my Honda into a Honda shop (Ecotech) Hope that makes sense. Also, as Radions and Hydras are owned by the same company, it would make sense to have them all controlled the same way. Yes this would take money as they just merged but it would make sense in the long run.

Sure, so you want an aquarium controller made by Ecotech to control their lights and pumps. That's reasonable. So basically something like Apex with the WXM module built in. Then include AI also, because Ecotech bought them out.

You're still excluding a large amount of people that use other brands of LED's and pumps. Ecotech and AI may be popular, but they represent the mid-high end market. I would venture to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there are just as many or more people using other fixtures (mainly chinese fixtures). Same for the vortech pumps. A lot of people use them, but what about the ever so popular Jebaos or Gyres or any of the other generic powerheads available? The only way to accommodate everybody is to use the modular system. No one or two or even three companies have enough of a marketshare to have all their products built into one controller. Ironically, if there was one company that had a huge market share in one niche in the aquarium trade it would be Neptune. IMO the modular system makes sense and is not as much of a cash grab that you made it out to be.

 

[bower23]

Sure, so you want an aquarium controller made by Ecotech to control their lights and pumps. That's reasonable. So basically something like Apex with the WXM module built in. Then include AI also, because Ecotech bought them out.

You're still excluding a large amount of people that use other brands of LED's and pumps. Ecotech and AI may be popular, but they represent the mid-high end market. I would venture to say, and correct me if I'm wrong, that there are just as many or more people using other fixtures (mainly chinese fixtures). Same for the vortech pumps. A lot of people use them, but what about the ever so popular Jebaos or Gyres or any of the other generic powerheads available? The only way to accommodate everybody is to use the modular system. No one or two or even three companies have enough of a marketshare to have all their products built into one controller. Ironically, if there was one company that had a huge market share in one niche in the aquarium trade it would be Neptune. IMO the modular system makes sense and is not as much of a cash grab that you made it out to be.

I never said this would fit everyone... And Neptune doesn't fit everyone. Do they make separate modules for those Chinese lights you refer to? No. But they do for Radion and AI. Why? Because even Neptune recognizes they are big enough players to make a module for. This was never meant to salve all the worlds problems but if the bulk of LED lights being sold is AI and Radions and the bulk of pumps are Vortech... all with wireless control... wouldn't the logical next step to make a power bar (controller) to pair them to? Of course Ecotech might not want to get into that market. Totally up to them. It was just a thought.

 

[d2mini]

Btw, GHL can control Tunze pumps out of the box.
If you want to control Vortechs you can buy the module.
They can also control their own Mitra leds out of the box.
But ya, there is no way to make everyone happy.

 

[Wazzel]

I suspect if ETM go into the controller game it would be software based through ecosmart live with communication interface modules. It would totally surprise me if they had a "brain box" like apex. Again, IF they get in to the controller game it would be shooting themselves in the foot to not make interface modules for other kit, including analog kit.

 

[ca1ore]

Again I said for all of you that are happy with the current stuff fine.

Oh, I see. You'll only 'accept' logical arguments for existing controllers from folks who are unhappy with their current choice :lol:. Well, you were right about one thing, this thread isn't going anywhere - at least, nowhere useful. And FWIW, your suggestion isn't 'out of the box thinking' its actually 'in the box thinking' ......... :lolspin:

 

[Breadman03]

There are many things that are not and never will be wireless capable (e.g. float switches). So you're either going to run out of ports, or you're going to need to buy... gasp... Modules!

While float switches might not be wireless capable, one could have a BOB communicate wirelessly with the controller. I doubt the market is large enough to justify the R&D on such a component, though.

I, for one, like the modularity of my Apex. My system was (and will be again in a few weeks) on two floors, so I can attach some components in the basement, such as my ATO components and DOS, and other things on my tank, such as Tunze pumps.

 

[ca1ore]

One other thing to consider .....

I have attempted to eliminate as much 'failure potential' from my system as possible though the use of select redundancies. The one thing that consistently worries me is the fact that much of my system runs through a single point of failure: Apex. Modularity has many advantages, but it also 'diversifies' failure points that an all-in-one would not. But, I am happy with my Apex, so I suppose this logic doesn't count.

 

[bower23]

Oh, I see. You'll only 'accept' logical arguments for existing controllers from folks who are unhappy with their current choice :lol:. Well, you were right about one thing, this thread isn't going anywhere - at least, nowhere useful. And FWIW, your suggestion isn't 'out of the box thinking' its actually 'in the box thinking' ......... :lolspin:

Whatever dude. Says you. I still think it's a good idea and I don't really care if everyone else doesn't. That includes you.