We need a new Controller Ecotech Please Save Us!

ca1ore said:
One other thing to consider .....

I have attempted to eliminate as much 'failure potential' from my system as possible though the use of select redundancies. The one thing that consistently worries me is the fact that much of my system runs through a single point of failure: Apex. Modularity has many advantages, but it also 'diversifies' failure points that an all-in-one would not. But, I am happy with my Apex, so I suppose this logic doesn't count.
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So go be happy... again this is for people that want a new design. If you do not, they why are you here other than to drag down the topic?
 
Bower-

From EcoTech I wanted to thank you for your feedback. We DO listen to our customers because we are fellow hobbyists and are surfing the same boards, attending the same events, and keeping the same organisms in our tanks. While I can't comment about projects that we may or may not have in development, there's no doubt that some of the points you've hit upon are very relevant.

Don't let negativity bring you down either. I don't think people are necessarily being mean to you in this thread, they're just providing their own opinion and it may differ a bit from yours. Keep up the suggestions, ideas, and desires for us or for anyone else. It matters to this hobby.
 
EcoTech Marine said:
Bower-

From EcoTech I wanted to thank you for your feedback. We DO listen to our customers because we are fellow hobbyists and are surfing the same boards, attending the same events, and keeping the same organisms in our tanks. While I can't comment about projects that we may or may not have in development, there's no doubt that some of the points you've hit upon are very relevant.

Don't let negativity bring you down either. I don't think people are necessarily being mean to you in this thread, they're just providing their own opinion and it may differ a bit from yours. Keep up the suggestions, ideas, and desires for us or for anyone else. It matters to this hobby.
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Thank you. As a designer, when I step back and look at my tank, it just make logical sense. Now that may not mean it makes sense for your business or corporate goals but personally I would love it. I totally understand if not everyone agrees. I didn't think everyone would. I was hoping for people to add on or suggest better ways of doing it. Instead I got people feeling I was personally attacking their current purchase and got all mean. It's unfortunate. I still believe there would be a large market (relatively speaking) for such a product. Some people just can't be convinced until they see other good feedback. Hopefully you guys at least bring the topic up in a meeting. Even if it's dismissed, then I did my job. Let the haters hate, I really don't care. I didn't get to be one of the top designers in my field by stopping every time someone told me it was a bad idea. Those bad ideas now have patent numbers and earn $20m annually. Anyhow, time to go back to work. Thanks.
 
bower23 said:
Let the haters hate, I really don't care. I didn't get to be one of the top designers in my field by stopping every time someone told me it was a bad idea. Those bad ideas now have patent numbers and earn $20m annually. Anyhow, time to go back to work. Thanks.
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Your ideas were not bad. Not even remotely.
 
EcoTech Marine said:
Your ideas were not bad. Not even remotely.
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Thank you! And I just had another one. I would like to see the sensor ports and power block be one unit. Less clutter, less wires, and less places for something to go wrong. Same as before, but if modularity is so important to some people, could you make the input section changeable? I just did an Hydra upgrade to my old Sol and I like how the unit was designed so the end user could upgrade it. So with that, make the board inside the controller have input ports that you can attach anything to. So if a user wanted PH, Salinity, Temp, and 4 float valve ports, they could just buy those input ports and connect them to the board. Kinda like the wireless module on the Vortech pumps. You want to add ORP? Just add this port to your controller. Now all the haters would say, "Isn't that the same as modules". No, it's still all in one unit, less wires, less cost because you don't have to pay for plastic housing-bus cable-packaging, less connection points to go wrong, and people don't have to pay for what they don't want. I would still include wireless built in and control of your own brand products built in. Same increased outlets but just make the input area changeable. Hmm again just a thought.
 
bower23 said:
Thank you! And I just had another one. I would like to see the sensor ports and power block be one unit. Less clutter, less wires, and less places for something to go wrong. Same as before, but if modularity is so important to some people, could you make the input section changeable? I just did an Hydra upgrade to my old Sol and I like how the unit was designed so the end user could upgrade it. So with that, make the board inside the controller have input ports that you can attach anything to. So if a user wanted PH, Salinity, Temp, and 4 float valve ports, they could just buy those input ports and connect them to the board. Kinda like the wireless module on the Vortech pumps. You want to add ORP? Just add this port to your controller. Now all the haters would say, "Isn't that the same as modules". No, it's still all in one unit, less wires, less cost because you don't have to pay for plastic housing-bus cable-packaging, less connection points to go wrong, and people don't have to pay for what they don't want. I would still include wireless built in and control of your own brand products built in. Same increased outlets but just make the input area changeable. Hmm again just a thought.
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Kinda like GHL.
The box is like your pc at home. If you need to add another ph port, open it up and add the ph expansion card. It comes with ports for ph, temp, conductivity, orp, level sensors... but sometimes you need extra.
If something breaks, open it up and replace it after they send you the parts.
This is great because you don't have the down time from having to send your whole unit back to the company to get it fixed.

I'm sure if Ecotech made a controller it would be pretty smart and well done.
Would just need to have something that differentiated itself from the others.
 
d2mini said:
Kinda like GHL.
The box is like your pc at home. If you need to add another ph port, open it up and add the ph expansion card. It comes with ports for ph, temp, conductivity, orp, level sensors... but sometimes you need extra.
If something breaks, open it up and replace it after they send you the parts.
This is great because you don't have the down time from having to send your whole unit back to the company to get it fixed.

I'm sure if Ecotech made a controller it would be pretty smart and well done.
Would just need to have something that differentiated itself from the others.
Click to expand...

Nice! Makes sense.
 
bower23 said:
Whatever dude. Says you. I still think it's a good idea and I don't really care if everyone else doesn't. That includes you.
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You know, the problem in this thread is how you are reading these posts. You say that you are being attacked with negativity and that people are all saying that your idea is a bad idea. I see very little of that, other than what you get back from comments from you as quoted here. The problem isn't that your idea is a bad one. The problem is that it is completely impractical and totally one-sided. As an example, you said that a modular system creates a mess. Many of us would argue exactly the opposite. Having every cable run to one spot creates more of a mess than having, for instance, all of your probes going to a "probe module" of some sort that you can mount directly above your sump. Then instead of 5 or 6 probe cables running to the head unit that is mounted where you can see it, you just have one bus cable running to it. Much neater. When you consider anyone making that argument being "negative" toward you, well then I guess in your mind we are.
 
DaveMorris said:
You know, the problem in this thread is how you are reading these posts. You say that you are being attacked with negativity and that people are all saying that your idea is a bad idea. I see very little of that, other than what you get back from comments from you as quoted here.
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Agreed! It's all in good fun. Folks with thin skins and quick flash points are always the most fun to debate because it's just a matter of time until they blow a gasket. I've been excoriated a few times here on RC by folks who didn't seem to get that - in most cases they either get moved or just burn out.
 
DaveMorris said:
You know, the problem in this thread is how you are reading these posts. You say that you are being attacked with negativity and that people are all saying that your idea is a bad idea. I see very little of that, other than what you get back from comments from you as quoted here. The problem isn't that your idea is a bad one. The problem is that it is completely impractical and totally one-sided. As an example, you said that a modular system creates a mess. Many of us would argue exactly the opposite. Having every cable run to one spot creates more of a mess than having, for instance, all of your probes going to a "probe module" of some sort that you can mount directly above your sump. Then instead of 5 or 6 probe cables running to the head unit that is mounted where you can see it, you just have one bus cable running to it. Much neater. When you consider anyone making that argument being "negative" toward you, well then I guess in your mind we are.
Click to expand...

Ya well when people start calling me dumb for trying to come up with a new idea, ya to me that is being attacked. You point of running cables is a valid one and not something I thought of. Simply stating that is the kind of comments I want, but when they are surrounded by comments that I'm dumb or the idea is just bad is wrong. To say the whole idea is bad is silly. There is nothing good about the idea? Nothing? I find that hard to believe. And even if it's bad for you, that doesn't mean it will not fit my needs perfectly. If there was only one good idea for any given product then we would all be driving the same cars, living in the same houses.. etc. And again for the 10th time.. if you are happy with your Apex modular system then great! Why are you here? If no one liked the idea and didn't want to build on it then there should be no other comments. Instead I have 3 pages of people telling me how dumb I am. So glad I started this thread of trying to help other reefers.
 
ca1ore said:
Agreed! It's all in good fun. Folks with thin skins and quick flash points are always the most fun to debate because it's just a matter of time until they blow a gasket. I've been excoriated a few times here on RC by folks who didn't seem to get that - in most cases they either get moved or just burn out.
Click to expand...

So your goal is to debate with people until they blow a gasket. So instead of truly caring about this topic you are just here to cause trouble? Well then I'll just ignore your posts for here on out. It's all in good fun.
 
We need a new Controller Ecotech Please Save Us!

bower23 said:
But do I still think it can be better? Yes absolutely. But I guarantee someday someone will come out with a simpler, all built in, affordable, wireless, controller. It's inevitable.
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As an avid Apex user I can completely agree with these comments ^^^^



I also agree that not any one type of controller will be a perfect fit for everyone. I see why Apex is at the tip of the spear right now in the controller department because of the vast array of products that are compatible with their system. Everyone's choices for lighting fixtures, powerhead pumps, dosing pumps, etc. are going to be different. There's far too many choices out there!



But, for people who use specifically EcoTech Marine products (like myself), an ETM controller would be VERY enticing!



And who knows, were they to produce one, maybe they would start to build a base of "EcoTech Controller Compatible" equipment produced by other companies??? (Much like the "Apex Ready" products.)
 
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RandoReefer said:
As an avid Apex user I can completely agree with these comments ^^^^

I also agree that not every one type of controller will be a perfect fit for everyone. I see why Apex is at the tip of the spear right now in the controller department because of the vast array of products that are compatible with their system. Everyone's choices for lighting fixtures, powerhead pumps, dosing pumps, etc. are going to be different. There's far too many choices out there!

But, for people who use specifically EcoTech Marine products (like myself), an ETM controller would be VERY enticing!

And who knows, were they to produce one, maybe they would start to build a base of "EcoTech Controller Compatible" equipment produced by other companies??? (Much like the "Apex Ready" products.)
Click to expand...

Agree. Apex has done great things for the hobby. You can control things that 10 years ago would have been crazy. They deserve every bit of business as they have. But, I still see a lot of possible improvements and that's the reason I suggested what I did. For us consumers, competition is a good thing. It pushes companies to produce better products and at a cheaper rate.
 
bower23 said:
Ya well when people start calling me dumb for trying to come up with a new idea, ya to me that is being attacked. You point of running cables is a valid one and not something I thought of. Simply stating that is the kind of comments I want, but when they are surrounded by comments that I'm dumb or the idea is just bad is wrong. To say the whole idea is bad is silly. There is nothing good about the idea? Nothing? I find that hard to believe. And even if it's bad for you, that doesn't mean it will not fit my needs perfectly. If there was only one good idea for any given product then we would all be driving the same cars, living in the same houses.. etc. And again for the 10th time.. if you are happy with your Apex modular system then great! Why are you here? If no one liked the idea and didn't want to build on it then there should be no other comments. Instead I have 3 pages of people telling me how dumb I am. So glad I started this thread of trying to help other reefers.
Click to expand...

The drama in your posts is overwhelming. What you're failing to see is that you yourself basically called Apex users dumb right from your very first post, saying they're all being "cheated," "ripped off," etc. Implying they're too dumb to see it and Neptune just sees them as cash cows. Even your thread title implies we need to be "saved" from something. Then when people said no, actually they prefer the a la carte option you took it personally and went on to say that they don't understand design or manufacturing (but you do), can't think outside of the box, are unoriginal, etc. I'm happy to go back through the thread and point out the language if you aren't clear on where you rubbed people the wrong way. You get what you give, and you started giving from your very first post and never let up. Please stop playing the victim because people disagreed with you and your tone. It's just a forum.

We all want innovation. Personally I am VERY much looking forward to the Mindstream system which will most likely be supported by Neptune. I'll happily buy the module for it when it comes out, if it happens to need one to integrate with my Apex. I am hoping it does everything they say it will, at which point I will probably also buy a Neptune DOS and start dosing instead of using kalk. I'll also be glad I chose not to buy the salinity module and probe, since they'll no longer be needed. That's the great thing about the modular system. I'm not buying things I don't want/need. The Mindstream will make a couple of things on my system redundant, like pH and temp, but I'll probably still use them because they're at a glance on the Apex head unit.
 
Coelli said:
The drama in your posts is overwhelming. What you're failing to see is that you yourself basically called Apex users dumb right from your very first post, saying they're all being "cheated," "ripped off," etc. Implying they're too dumb to see it and Neptune just sees them as cash cows. Even your thread title implies we need to be "saved" from something. Then when people said no, actually they prefer the a la carte option you took it personally and went on to say that they don't understand design or manufacturing (but you do), can't think outside of the box, are unoriginal, etc. I'm happy to go back through the thread and point out the language if you aren't clear on where you rubbed people the wrong way. You get what you give, and you started giving from your very first post and never let up. Please stop playing the victim because people disagreed with you and your tone. It's just a forum.

We all want innovation. Personally I am VERY much looking forward to the Mindstream system which will most likely be supported by Neptune. I'll happily buy the module for it when it comes out, if it happens to need one to integrate with my Apex. I am hoping it does everything they say it will, at which point I will probably also buy a Neptune DOS and start dosing instead of using kalk. I'll also be glad I chose not to buy the salinity module and probe, since they'll no longer be needed. That's the great thing about the modular system. I'm not buying things I don't want/need. The Mindstream will make a couple of things on my system redundant, like pH and temp, but I'll probably still use them because they're at a glance on the Apex head unit.
Click to expand...

So you really think their profit margins are small or are they high because there are so few options on the market that we are willing to pay $530 for a unit that in any other market would probably cost $250? So I still believe we are getting ripped off but I don't think you or anyone else is stupid for it. We have no choice. And no one said. "I like my my Apex and like the modular system". They said it in the same post as saying my idea was bad and I was dumb. I totally understand if it's not for you. And I even said that in my first post. But if you are fine with the current system then why are you here bashing something you don't need or want? That's like me going and telling the motorcycle companies those 3 wheeled motorcycles are stupid because I drive a car.... ???? Either make a helpful contribution to the TOPIC (which is not you or my personal feelings) or please find something else do to.
 
Coelli said:
The drama in your posts is overwhelming. What you're failing to see is that you yourself basically called Apex users dumb right from your very first post, saying they're all being "cheated," "ripped off," etc. Implying they're too dumb to see it and Neptune just sees them as cash cows. Even your thread title implies we need to be "saved" from something. Then when people said no, actually they prefer the a la carte option you took it personally and went on to say that they don't understand design or manufacturing (but you do), can't think outside of the box, are unoriginal, etc. I'm happy to go back through the thread and point out the language if you aren't clear on where you rubbed people the wrong way. You get what you give, and you started giving from your very first post and never let up. Please stop playing the victim because people disagreed with you and your tone. It's just a forum.

We all want innovation. Personally I am VERY much looking forward to the Mindstream system which will most likely be supported by Neptune. I'll happily buy the module for it when it comes out, if it happens to need one to integrate with my Apex. I am hoping it does everything they say it will, at which point I will probably also buy a Neptune DOS and start dosing instead of using kalk. I'll also be glad I chose not to buy the salinity module and probe, since they'll no longer be needed. That's the great thing about the modular system. I'm not buying things I don't want/need. The Mindstream will make a couple of things on my system redundant, like pH and temp, but I'll probably still use them because they're at a glance on the Apex head unit.
Click to expand...


And if my drama is so overwhelming then why do you keep posting and bringing it up? Do you think that helps the topic at all? No you just want to argue. Again, contribute to the topic.
 
I'm not the one who keeps complaining about being victimized. You even complained about it on the other forum you just posted this idea on again (where you also said the reasons people gave here for preferring the modular system were "weak"). :) I also posted above some more points about why the modular system works for me, but you are so focused on being a victim you have nothing to say about how your AIO controller might work with a product like the Mindstream, even though you keep saying you want a discussion.

Btw, CoralVue just announed a controller for the Gyre that will interface with the Apex. I'm stoked and will buy one for sure!
 
Coelli said:
I'm not the one who keeps complaining about being victimized. You even complained about it on the other forum you just posted this idea on again (where you also said the reasons people gave here for preferring the modular system were "weak"). :) I also posted above some more points about why the modular system works for me, but you are so focused on being a victim you have nothing to say about how your AIO controller might work with a product like the Mindstream, even though you keep saying you want a discussion.

Btw, CoralVue just announed a controller for the Gyre that will interface with the Apex. I'm stoked and will buy one for sure!
Click to expand...

Sorry but I can't comment on the AIO and CoralVue items as I don't know anything about that. Haven't had time to look it up. And yes I believe the reasons why not are weak. That is my opinion and my thread. I'm not going to change my opinion just because you don't like it. And I'm not a 'victim' I'm simply saying stay on topic or stop posting. You've made your point. You wouldn't buy it. Thanks for your opinion.
 
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