what do u think of seaworld

[Ontheway]

Seaworld and other places give opportunity to "see" such animals, this is not the same thing seeing it on TV. This way people (especially kids) learn that there are uncountable amount of life forms really exist underwater, and they too, deserve some respect.
This awareness gained at early ages of life bring sensitivity which (hopefully) stops some people and companies of showing their real greediness for consuming sources from oceans.
As mentioned in above messages, Seaworld or others are companies have to make profit, to keep this going. And I am happy that they are making money by spending a lot of effort to "keep alive", if you think the number of companies doing the opposit with the animals...Chicken factories are just an example. So, I believe its ok as long as they provide enough sources for the animals under captivity. When it becomes wrong? If every little town next to each other tries to open their own aquarium and keep such big mammals under captivity, then it may worth to reconsider the situation.

 

[Rarewon]

Have you seen the movie 'Blackfish'? Available for streaming from Netflix.

Check out, "The Cove" if you havent already

 

[alexx2208]

Have you seen the movie 'Blackfish'? Available for streaming from Netflix.

I'm not an animal rights nut. I have aquariums, pets and eat meat!

I do believe we should be responsible and humane to other life forms.

KWs are social animals. They travel and live as a group (pod).They do not live in the wild as individuals. At SeaWorld they are often alone and are never part of a pod (family group).

They naturally travel many miles per day. At SW they are often in tanks too small to turn around in easily.

The male's dorsal fin is erect in the wild. At SW the dorsal fin is bent. Remember 'Free Willy'?

Their lifespan is much longer in the wild vs. SeaWorld. 75 years vs. 25, IIRC.

On this board we have discussions about what size tank is appropriate for a fish. Tangs come up often. Expand the concept to a 'fish' the size of a KW and just think how the tiny tank is torture for such an intelligent animal.

Most hobbyists do as much as they can for animals in their care. Expenses be dammed!

SeaWorld is a corporation. Their motivation is profit. It's not a research institution or a learning/teaching facility. They are there to make money. An aquatic Disneyland. They can't profitably care properly for an animal like a KW so they cut corners.

I'd much rather spend my money on a CB fish or aquacultured coral than support the inhumane treatment of such a beautiful animal.

I do not to be on sea worlds side, since I do think that they do need to improve their facilities and stop breeding the older, actual killer.... Whales, but blackfish is an admitted propaganda movie to deter all people from going to sea world for any reason what-so-ever. Yes, there must be improvements, but as they state, it is the ONE kW which is the one who has killed 2 trainers and one crazy person who essentially committed suicide by going at night and tying himself to this kW. Now, he is one of the only wild caught orcas that sea world has anymore... At 33 years old, he is the largest kW sea world has had, and, IMHO, is the problem. He's almost twice the size of the other kws that they have, and yes... Doesn't fit in their facility "comfortably", although, none seem to do.

I believe that, at this point sea world should improve their facilities, and if they do, they should be able to keep their whales, especially with their current "no trainer in water with kW" rules and what seems to be a life vest on them.

Now, tilikum lives in Orlando, so I have no idea why they want to stop showing kws in California(San Diego)..... I say get to the route of the problem

 

[ReefingWerewolf]

I think there is a difference between keeping animals and giving them the best possible care (like most of us do), while sea world (as a corporation, most of the employees genuinely care for the animals) knows that orcas cannot be kept in pools that size. Their lives are cut significantly, and most of them go insane. Sea World has every right in the world to keep penguins, or other animals that are small enough, or are able to be kept in smaller areas than the open ocean, but not a whale. And the fact that they train their tour guides incorrect information to cover their tracks proves they don't care about the animals, they just want to see profit. It's disgusting, and keeping whales in pools should be illegal.

+1

I got no prob with responsibly keeping smaller sized marine animals in large well kept enclosures. But orcas like Morgan prove just how committed to keep the cash flow going seaworld are: http://www.freemorgan.org/morgan-2/ :facepalm:

 

[thenewguy997]

See i think thts wrong.

Breed the 'killer' out of the whale. But then its not even an orca, its an amusement park attraction.. Probly wouldnt survive if released

So basically what you want is an orca that acts like a dolphin

But we need to realize orcas are savage. They can and will kill humans, its their dna. Put that in a swimming pool and **** happens..

Its like saying lets breed the aggression out of a great white. Then whats even the point?

I support sea world, but we need to realizw when you treat an apex predator like a toy thete is always a risk.

 

[ReefingWerewolf]

See i think thts wrong.

Breed the 'killer' out of the whale. But then its not even an orca, its an amusement park attraction.. Probly wouldnt survive if released

So basically what you want is an orca that acts like a dolphin

But we need to realize orcas are savage. They can and will kill humans, its their dna. Put that in a swimming pool and **** happens..

Its like saying lets breed the aggression out of a great white. Then whats even the point?

I support sea world, but we need to realizw when you treat an apex predator like a toy thete is always a risk.

Orcas are dolphins lol, and to call orcas savage is plain ridiculous. No human has ever been killed by an orca in the wild. The fact is if you put a huge orca in a bathtub with a bunch of little trainers for 30 years (if they are lucky live that long) someone is bound to get squashed eventually. They are incredibly intelligent animals, but locking wild animals up in a kiddy pool and forcing them to do the same show three times a day for years is enough do drive anyone insane. If I was in their position I would eventually attach my captors as well...

Rant over xD

 

[ReefingWerewolf]

Found this interesting if anyone is curious: http://savelolita.org/the-plan

Reading this thread has got my doing too much research loll

 

[Ztrain]

You do have tp realizw blackfish is a propoganda film tho

Exactly. 100% completely biased. Not that the bias is bad necessarly. People will have different opinions and what not. I actually do find even more interesting is the rebuttals to Blackfish. Like where they show an injured trainer while they are going on about how the whales injure their trainers. Then you find out in other interviews that trainer had slipped or something and cut himself on a net. Don't remember the specifics but had nothing to do with the whiles lol. I consider that to be total miss representation and calls in to question most of the other details presented in the movie. Several clips were totally used out of context and even some of the interviews when the guys were later interviewed were like they only used small clips of the interview that could be scued to their bias. If you watch Blackfish watch some of the rebuttals. Gives a more interesting perspective.

Personally I think keeping an animal that intelligent is inhumane. But I still don't like blatant agenda like Blackfish personally.

 

[Alexraptor]

Judging based on intelligence is an extremely dangerous venture into unknown territory.
We still know very little about what "intelligence" actually is, and there is no universal standard for it as there are so many ideas as to how it is defined and how you test it.

Many just a few decades ago the prevailing notion was that fish are dumb and goldfish have 3-second memories.
Yet today we know better, and science has proven that our fish are many times more intelligent than most people give them credit for.(something many of us aquarists have known in our gut for years already )

 

[alexx2208]

Never recorded has a kW eaten or ripped a person apart lol.. They do not eat humans.... The ones that have killed people usually pull them into the water and drown them... There not eating them, nor would those trainers want you to think they were eating them.... These trainers work all their lives with these animals, and begin to have personal relationships with the animal... But remember, theyre still ANIMALS, they'll want to play, I I wouldn't think they would understand that us humans can't breathe underwater.

Sea world has appropriately changed their policies about how the trainers interact with the kws, but they still need to upgrade their facilities

 

[woodnaquanut]

Check out, "The Cove" if you havent already

Thanks. I added it to my Netflix queue.

 

[GroktheCube]

I'm generally not the PETA type, but I have a problem with keeping Cetaceans in captivity, and I've felt that way since I started researching marine biology around age 11.

Arguments about intelligence, emotions, etc aside, the strongest argument against keeping them is the quality of life we can provide when measured objectively. It's very rare for a captive Orca to live for even half of its natural lifespan in captivity, and they develop illnesses that simply do not exist in the wild.

This puts them in a very different category from cats, dogs, or the majority of the animals that we keep as pets. Many animals humans keep in captivity can live much longer and healthier lives than they would in the wild.

That is not the case for Cetaceans. Without even taking their intelligence into account, I don't think keeping them in captivity is wise. Once their intelligence is taken into account, I can't see any moral justification. These are animals that are capable of abstract rational thought, empathy, fairly advanced communication, and have distinct cultural and linguistic differences between pods on a level that's only observed otherwise in humans.

Just my .02

 

[imkelz]

I used to want to go to sea world when I was a kid, but now I think that I would much rather see orcas on a whale watching trip.

 

[Shawn O]

While I see both sides of the argument, I do not condone abusive treatment of animals of any kind. I also don't condemn the hunting of animals for food.

I very much enjoyed going to SW every few years as a child and would like to see SW continue to use them as an attraction as long as the Orcas are given a proper environment. The size of the pools used for the Orcas are the equivalent of keeping a human in a 10x10 room permanently. SW needs to keep these marvelous creatures in an enclosure at least the size of a football stadium for the well being of the animal. Something that large needs room to move freely in an environment that more closely resembles it's natural one.

 

[reeferstace]

Whales belong in the ocean.

 

[nicdu]

Blackfish may be a propaganda film, but it's a damn good one. Of course it has it's own agenda, and doesn't present a balanced perspective. But it's still very moving, and many parts of it absolutely point to the willful neglect, ignorance and cruelty of the sea world corporation. They should 1000% not be breeding those animals in captivity, and not make additional moves to acquire new whales from other sources. It's shamful enough that they 'own' the number that they do all over the world. Those whales should not be in glorified swimming pools. If people on this board get so bent out of shape about a tang in a too small tank, how do you think those whales feel? I live 45 minutes from Sea world, and I will never go there again.

 

[CODE3EMT]

Seaworld is a multi-billion dollar corporation, having said that..... by not going to the whale and dolphin shows will do nothing for the cause. The truth is, if you don't go to see the shows it's just another open seat for a family to get a closer look at these magnificent animals. Do I think a whale should be kept in a giant swimming pool.... of course not, but you are fighting an uphill battle that you will never win. This hobby as become very liberal in contrast to the days when I remember having a marine aquarium, perhaps none of us should ever own an aquarium for sake of the Percula Clown being pulled from the ocean so we can have it in our fish tank. These companies know what people want to see. People don't go to Six Flags to ride roller coasters, they go to see Shamu or Shooka the Killer Whale. In my opinion if an Orca goes Killer Whale on a trainer......well it's sad... but what else would you expect from a Killer Whale. These animals have a natural instinct, having them play with a ball and fed vitamin enriched mackerel will not change it's behavior. Sadly we see this on TV all the time. Guy taunts lion, guy feeds lion, guy gets to close to cage, lion grabs guy, lion kills guy, liberal media request the lion be shot and put down, family sues zoo for $10,000.000.00 The liberal media loves this stuff. I like Seaworld, would I continue to go if the whale and dolphin shows went away........ probably not. Seaworld is a major player in family entertainment and I would bet my Fusion 40 no one on this forum has the means or money to fight the big corporate guys. Just my opinion...... interesting reading though.

 

[nicdu]

I may not have the means or the money to fight a big corporation. But they surely won't get MY money. And I can voice my opinion in forums like this one. Small steps can lead to big changes.

 

[melvinakshay]

on the other side of the world - japanese hunt whales in the name of research and no one gives a damn. We only care about what SeaWorld is doing with a few orcas.

 

[SwampyBill]

whales belong in the ocean.

+1,000 ^^^