thenewguy997
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Animal ambassadors. Hm..
what do u think of seaworld
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Zoodiver
As seen on TV
Ok, let me ask this to keep the discussion going:
If Sea World didn't have killer whales, how many people who know what they are?
Why are orcas in the media? Is it because they need help more than any other endangered marine mammal, or is it because people know what they are thanks to Sea World?
You can show the general public a picture of an orca, and 99% of them will know what it is instantly. Same with a bottle nose dolphin. Show them a beluga, and they'll probably know that as well. Show that same group a pilot whale, would they know what it is? How many could identify any more of the small whales or dolphins (especially those not in an exhibit for them to see)? Interesting that the three cetaceans you can commonly see in thriving in facilities are three most people will recognize.
Generally speaking from my experience, the animals people 'care' about are ones they know about. Facilities have exposed people to animals they otherwise wouldn't have seen.
If Sea World didn't have killer whales, how many people who know what they are?
Why are orcas in the media? Is it because they need help more than any other endangered marine mammal, or is it because people know what they are thanks to Sea World?
You can show the general public a picture of an orca, and 99% of them will know what it is instantly. Same with a bottle nose dolphin. Show them a beluga, and they'll probably know that as well. Show that same group a pilot whale, would they know what it is? How many could identify any more of the small whales or dolphins (especially those not in an exhibit for them to see)? Interesting that the three cetaceans you can commonly see in thriving in facilities are three most people will recognize.
Generally speaking from my experience, the animals people 'care' about are ones they know about. Facilities have exposed people to animals they otherwise wouldn't have seen.
A lot. Check out the video below. Willy the most famous orca ever. Jesse is my hero. I just started crying when Willy jumped over him to freedom.
I do agree with you that it is an educational experience. I teach a class at the aquarium. The kids are 11-12 years old. When they come they have a great time. They learn more from the hands on and visual experience at the aquarium then they can every learn in a textbook or video. The experience they have now might lead them to further pursue an education or career in science. Since a lot of conservation effects depend on volunteers it is important to get people to want to help the environment.
Many of the aquariums and zoos by me are ran by the Wildlife Conservation Society which buys and manages land around the world for conservation and preservation. Lets not forget about the research and captive breeding which takes place their to. Reef Gen is a company that sells captive raised and breed fish. They run their operation out of the aquarium. It might not be feasible or economical for the average person or business to set up a program like that from scratch. They were able to do it with using the resources from the aquarium. If more aquariums did this it will greatly reduce the impact the hobby has on the environment.
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There's a lot of shades of gray in the world, not just the black and white you note.
thenewguy997
New member
So in your opinion people are stupid?
How many people care about Zoogoneticus tequila? very few, because they have no idea it ever existed. Zoos, sea worlds etc etc bring people in contact, educate, and further the conservation of species that otherwise would be ignored. If you asked someone in the 1900s what they thought of orcas being killed, their response would be likely much different than a person of this day and age. Thank sea world for that.
Zoodiver
As seen on TV
If this was directed to me, in no way, shape or form did I say that.
Any AZA accredited facility (of which Long Island is not) cannot sell livestock and can only trade/sell to other AZA accredited facilities. The majority of Public Aquariums are members of AZA.
ReefGen only sells captive bred fish
They sell captive raised coral.
faulkincanyon
New member
watch this video on youtube from a former seaworld orcha trainer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VX4GRC6L07w
Seaworld helps bring people closer to wildlife, including the whale shows that entertain the kids and adults. Heck I grew up with a stuffed killer whale from Seaworld. Without this interaction and showing the public what these animals can do then people become indifferent. Then Japan gets to whale to it's hearts content and things go down hill fast, heck you probally would not have got Star Trek Voyage Home without the whaling outrage at the time. The only reason people had this outrage was due to all the interaction and news articles related to Seaworld.
Knowledge makes people care, once people care positive things usually happen. It's a hobby we love so we all care about the animals and what happens to them, the average person looks at us and wonders why we spent all that cash on a glass cage.
Knowledge makes people care, once people care positive things usually happen. It's a hobby we love so we all care about the animals and what happens to them, the average person looks at us and wonders why we spent all that cash on a glass cage.
I knew nothing about the Great Barrier Reef or any other reefs dying until about Mid May when I started doing research for getting in to keeping a Salt Water Tank. Guarantee that that vast vast majority of the population doesn't care at all about what happens to the reefs. If you ask them they'd probably go ohh yeah I care about nature blah blah. But in reality most people don't care about what they don't know about.
Given that most people ignore activists. I see people gathering holding signs in protest and the first thing I do is my very best to ignore it whatever the issue. You want people to know and or care about a topic important to you, educate them. That's what aquariums do. Things like The Living Sea at Epcot or Sea World expose people to things they wouldn't normally go out and see for themselves. If you want people to care about stuff you have to present it to them. People simply can't care about what they don't know.
Given that most people ignore activists. I see people gathering holding signs in protest and the first thing I do is my very best to ignore it whatever the issue. You want people to know and or care about a topic important to you, educate them. That's what aquariums do. Things like The Living Sea at Epcot or Sea World expose people to things they wouldn't normally go out and see for themselves. If you want people to care about stuff you have to present it to them. People simply can't care about what they don't know.
OpenRoad
New member
Using common sense, keeping an Orca in an enclosed pool for entertainment is great for entertainment but horrible for the Orca. They need an ocean to have a normal life. They are intelligent mammals, not fish. Our aquarium fish have no clue they are even in an aquarium. There's not really a comparison since we're talking big+mammal, vs small+fish.
I would be more likely to go to Sea World if they ditched the Ocras. Time is not on their side.
I would be more likely to go to Sea World if they ditched the Ocras. Time is not on their side.
Zoodiver
As seen on TV
Not trying to argue, just looking for more info to see why you feel this way...
Where is the actual proof that is is 'horrible for the Orcas'? Where is the study showing that the animals SW has are suffering or neglected in anyway?
If they 'need an ocean', why is the captive born survival rate almost 90% higher for SW orca calves vs wild orca calves? Why is the average life span of SW orcas longer than the average life span of wild orcas?
hilgert
Excessive Minimalist
I think "length of life" needs to be balanced with "quality of life". I'm not arguing one way or the other...I'm just suggesting there are many sides to this. Certainly they would not know the difference, having spent their life in a small pond, so they may or may not be "happy" (not sure how you would even measure that).
I can see this many ways...but ultimately I'm concerned that killer whales don't belong in relatively confined spaces (certainly I hope nobody would argue that this is their "natural" habitat...just like reefers a cannot argue our small tanks are a Yellow Tangs "natural" habitat).
I'd feel better if the areas killer whales are kept in were 10x the size/volume (more "run room"). This is my view of other other zoo animals as well...my favorite zoos are the ones that have large animals in spacious areas (new thinking) instead of small boxed-in areas (old thinking). I think there would be some interesting things Sea World could do with this concept with more underwater viewing, etc.
Zoodiver
As seen on TV
I agree that quality of life is the prime concern. From my experience, there is no issue with the quality of life being lead by the animals in question. Quality of these animals lives is based on over all health and indications of stress.
As for space, when SW Orlando opens up all of the various pools and lets the whales roam into any of them, the orcas often show they prefer pools other than the largest to spend their time in. They have the choice to use any or all of the space. I'm not saying more space is a bad thing, but it hasn't been proven they need it to lead an enriched and healthy life vs. what they currently have.
Massive amounts of space isn't new thinking vs old thinking. It's a matter of advancements in our ability to provide better care in the proper sized areas according to the animals needs. It's a balancing act. There is a point where too big becomes a major health risk for the animals because it cuts into the ability for us to offer proper care. If you give a 3" fish a million gallons, can you provide proper care? Can you see if often to do visual checks? Can you make sure it's eating? At this point, the areas SW provides it's orca population haven't been proven to have a negative impact on their lives.
The other thing is that people often say "I feel like..." or I would feel better if...". Though the comment maybe reflect a true feeling, these statements have nothing to do with the animals or their well being, but instead humans projecting their emotions onto them. It's not about what humans want, it's about providing for the animals in our care.
As for space, when SW Orlando opens up all of the various pools and lets the whales roam into any of them, the orcas often show they prefer pools other than the largest to spend their time in. They have the choice to use any or all of the space. I'm not saying more space is a bad thing, but it hasn't been proven they need it to lead an enriched and healthy life vs. what they currently have.
Massive amounts of space isn't new thinking vs old thinking. It's a matter of advancements in our ability to provide better care in the proper sized areas according to the animals needs. It's a balancing act. There is a point where too big becomes a major health risk for the animals because it cuts into the ability for us to offer proper care. If you give a 3" fish a million gallons, can you provide proper care? Can you see if often to do visual checks? Can you make sure it's eating? At this point, the areas SW provides it's orca population haven't been proven to have a negative impact on their lives.
The other thing is that people often say "I feel like..." or I would feel better if...". Though the comment maybe reflect a true feeling, these statements have nothing to do with the animals or their well being, but instead humans projecting their emotions onto them. It's not about what humans want, it's about providing for the animals in our care.
Shawn O
New member
The survival rate of any animal increases with a decrease of predators. I would imagine SW does not allow other animals into the Orca tanks that would eat young Orcas.
How does a captive bred whale know it would rather be in the ocean? As far as it knows it is in its natural habitat. And who decides what a better life is? Maybe whales like to be lazy, not be preyed upon, have healthcare, and have all their food subsidized. I do think this is one of those cases where everyone has a right to their opinion-and I respect them all. But from the science standpoint, I think the animals are well cared for-and the research and public awareness exceeds the potential damage done to a few individuals.
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