what do u think of seaworld

[hilgert]

Humans are intelligent, social, active creatures. As a human I would not want to spend my entire life in a room the size of a small room with no windows, and with my only view outside of the room being a few bobs into the air to look around at some place I cannot go.

Killer whales are intelligent, social, active creatures. I imagine killer whales would not want to live their entire life in a small pool with no windows, with their only view outside of the pool being a few bobs into the air to look around at some place they cannot go.

Killer whales are not dogs. Even if I never let my dogs out of my house they would have 100x more room than a killer whale does at Sea World (and of course I let them out and take them for walks all the time).

I've seen killer whales many times in the wild in Hawaii and the Northwest coast of the US. They are WAY more impressive when they surface a few yards from your boat (and especially when snorkeling) than when they jump out of a pool at SeaWorld.

Seeing Blackfish did not change how I felt...I felt that way before I saw it. Seeing Blackfish made me realize how hypocritical I was when I went to SeaWorld knowing what I already knew.

I don't fault SeaWorld for the past, but I am critical of them continuing to keep killer whales in captivity. If they were to announce tomorrow that they planned to never take on (or allow to breed) another killer whale I'd willingly walk right back into a SeaWorld park as long as they took care of the existing whales until their natural death (and maybe even continue to show them...it's what the whales "know" at this point).

With the abilities we have today with Alaska cruises, whale watching trips, HDTV shows, etc., there is no reason to house them in captivity. In other words, we need to advance beyond captive killer whales.

 

[Dmorty217]

According to NOAA, the typical lifespan for male Orcinus orca is about 30 years. Females typically live around 50 years. They only talk about potentially up to 50-100 years. There seems to be a lot of variability in wild populations depending upon location, as well. Some populations seem to have shorter lifespans.

While captivity often isn't ideal for a great many animals, many (potentially most) of our animals included, the lessons that can be learned from them are substantial. The parks generate both revenue, research, and public awareness. I think the orcas at Seaworld receive close to the best care in captivity that is currently available. They have always been pretty active and seemingly happy in the many instances I've seen them there (Orlando). The enclosure/tank was definitely easy enough for them to turn around in. Of course, this is just how I viewed it and is anecodotal.

I'm very careful with Blackfish, FWIW.

Blackfish is a side that you rarely hear about. Regardless of your take on the views the fact that a man who had been to war and was still emotionally tore up about what he experienced while they corralled the babies to be taken away was very disturbing. The state of Washington didn't tell sea world to get [profanity] and ban them from catching orcas because they were doing a good thing or with good practices

 

[billsreef]

Let's watch the language. If you need to cheat the censors with a few *, find a better word

 

[kurt_n]

...I imagine killer whales would not want to live their entire life in a small pool with no windows, with their only view outside of the pool being a few bobs into the air to look around at some place they cannot go.

Actually, a large portion of their tank in San Diego *is* a huge window where folks can watch them underwater.

I've seen killer whales many times in the wild in Hawaii and the Northwest coast of the US. They are WAY more impressive when they surface a few yards from your boat (and especially when snorkeling) than when they jump out of a pool at SeaWorld.

Having grown up in the Seattle area and seen them in the wild more times than I can count, and having just returned from SeaWorld in San Diego... I'll have to respectfully disagree. While it's amazing to watch a pod of Orcas feeding on salmon at the mouth of a stream/river in the wild, I'll have to say I was much more impressed at the strength and beauty of these creatures as I watched them "perform" at Seaworld.

Yes... I'll admit that while I watched, I thought to myself... "that's interesting, never seen that type of behavior/jumping in the wild"... and knew I was watching something that wasn't necessarily "natural" to them. But at the same time, the Orcas I was watching weren't even close to "wild".

My kids have seen dolphins and orcas in the wild. They've seen them at Seaworld. And I can tell you after Seaworld, they both came away with a new respect for them that they didn't have before. In fact, my little boy now wants to grow up and work to help dolphins. (But then, the next day he wanted to be a Lego MasterBuilder, so we'll see! :inlove: )

As the keeper of wild-caught saltwater fish in a 46g tank, I really can't bash Seaworld too much for what they're doing. Yes... they're a money-making machine, not a zoo. And we explained the difference to our kids when we were there. But at the same time, they seem to be doing a good job of trying to raise awareness of people about these creatures, just as I try to do when people come over to admire my reef-in-a-box.

 

[jdmneon]

I think 90%+ of what sea-world does is positive, they teach a lot of people respect for and joy of the ocean that they didn't have before, how many kids walk out of there wanting to marine biologists? even if that sentiment only lasts a day or a week thats powerful. I think overall sea world has done a lot more harm than good, most of the animals I see there are in great condition, and they seem to do their best for them.

the killer whales are only a part of what they do, I have seen black-fish and even though it's propaganda I'm sure a lot of it is probably true, I have no problem with humans keeping orca's hypothetically but the enclosure would have to be like 100 times bigger at least than the facilities they have at sea-world, they don't meet the minimum tank size for that animal at all.

as for the whales themselves, that Tilikum whale is the one that did almost all of the damage, one crazy whale doesn't necessarily mean anything, it might have nothing to do with sea-world, humans have lunatics and murderers also, if killer whales are as smart as people think they are, I don't think its a stretch at all to say that he was just a bad apple, for all we know he would have been just as bad in the wild

 

[Zoodiver]

Just wanted to add some food for thought from an inside perspective. (I should state up front that I do not currently, nor have I ever worked directly for Sea World. I have worked with them on non-orca related projects in the past, and I have been around other orcas not related to Sea World's group. I do have direct contact with many people who work with Sea World's orca program.):

Without reading all of the details in the comments, sadly both Blackfish and The Cove are full of bad info, made up info and skewed 'facts' to draw attention and make money. As someone who has been on the inside and the outside, they rank right up there with Sharknado for the level of actual truth to them. Of the 'experts' and ex-staff that Blackfish featured, most had been fired for not treating animals well, paid to be on camera or edited to twist the statements (and some are taking legal action over how they were lied to by producers). Some didn't even work there when Dawn's incident happened and didn't spend a day working with the orcas like they lead you to believe.

No parks in the US take wild marine mammals for display purposes anymore. They are only taken in for rescue/rehab. Collecting was done in a time when people didn't know any better (kind of like when women couldn't vote and we had public restrooms based on skin color). Yes, I'm serious about that. One post here was referencing the orca in Miami. That animal was under human care at a time when the park had big signs for the 'black only' and 'white only' restrooms. She is doing very well, and responds poorly to attempts to modify or change the area.

Today's marine life parks (with mammals) in the US are nothing like the activists are trying to sway the public into thinking. Animals lives are not cut short. Animals are not forced to do anything if they don't want to. Animals are always given food and any thing they need. Between USFW, USDA, AZA, Alliance of Marine Mammals, NOAA, state wildlife agencies and OSHA, parks are HIGHLY watched to ensure they are doing everything possible to provide the best care they can.

Tilikum didn't kill several people. This is a lie twisted into fact by activists. There were deaths associated with him, but when you know the facts instead of the lies, each is very understandable and the animal has done nothing wrong.

Let's look at real facts:

Orcas under Sea Worlds care live as long or longer on average compared to the average life span of a wild orca. You hear talk of a random orca living a long time as though all should. I also see humans hit 110. That is rare, not the standard to judge all by. Same is applied to orcas.

50% of orcas in the wild die as calves under a year old.

The knowledge gained from Sea World's orca programs has lead to dramatic changes in our ability to understand wild orcas, and help protect them world wide as well as improve our ability to keep them.

Yes, Sea World is a for profit business - like many parks. Why don't activists like to look at the amount of that profit invested into saving animals through the rescue / rehab / research end of the facility? Mostly because SW is doing huge amounts of it, and the activists wouldn't want the public to know the truth about the good SW is doing.

Talk of collecting wild orcas is not relevant in today's world. It hasn't been done in a very long time. Most of the marine mammals you see in today's parks have never seen the wild - nor could they survive there after being born into human care.

On that same note, the death rate of released orcas is 100%. Reintroduction is not like the activists want you to believe.


_______________________________

At the end of the day, do this: Research. Get the facts, not what the main stream media is trying to sway you with. Question where the info is coming from and what motives they have in presenting information/facts. From there, make you own choices.

 

[alton]

Zoo Diver I like your post

 

[Zoodiver]

Thanks.

It's a hard topic. I see the advantage of having bigger systems etc.... But the truth of it is that these animals are thriving how they are.

People like to twist opinion into facts or twist truth to fit what they feel. Most have never worked with the animals they claim to know about, or they worked for a limited time and didn't do well - so they feel to get back at the industry they need to attack it.

I also am well aware of the dangers of this line of work, and I'm sure all of the trainers know the dangers of working with large bodied animals. It is part of what we do.

For my specific area, I can tell you that these big predatory aquatic animals aren't even close to the monsters the media makes them out to be until I'm blue in the face to try and overcome the negative (and wrong) image the media gives them. Yet there hasn't been a single time I haven't stopped before going in close with a big sharks or crocs to think that this could be my last time.

After Steve was killed in '06, I always tell people if something happens to me, you make sure EVERYONE knows it wasn't the animals fault. It was a mistake I made in how I was in how I did my job. Learn from my mistake.

 

[gone fishin]

For those of you who remember Paul Harvey, I feel like I just heard the rest of the story.

 

[alton]

Well at least I am not the only old person on this forum "Good Day"

 

[Zoodiver]

With the abilities we have today with Alaska cruises, whale watching trips, HDTV shows, etc., there is no reason to house them in captivity. In other words, we need to advance beyond captive killer whales.

This is a good point, and I was thinking about it last night. One of the original ideas behind large scale animal parks (and even going back to the mobile circus etc..) is bringing animals to the people who would otherwise never see them.
The other side to the coin is the 'in person' experience. To some extent, there is still that need. Many people cannot afford to see them in the wild. Sure you can see video and pics of them all over (for most people today), but there is something about seeing them in person.

It's like watching a Grand Am race on your sofa vs being in the pits (or if you get to encounter the animals first hand, like being in the passenger seat).

I will say one thing that comes up often is improving conditions. I think both sides agree that things can always be made better. I want to assure people on both sides that no facility is ever 'happy' with the way things are currently. We are constantly trying new methods and attempting to grow and expand the knowledge base we use for care of these types of animals. Just like guys with home fish tanks. When was the last time you met someone who said "I'm done, I know everything I have is the best it can be and I won't change a thing." in regards to their tank?

 

[KafudaFish]

"Where are the animals? I cannot see them because the exhibit is too big!"

"Look how small that exhibit is! Those poor animals."

 

[accordsirh22]

Just wanted to add some food for thought from an inside perspective. (I should state up front that I do not currently, nor have I ever worked directly for Sea World. I have worked with them on non-orca related projects in the past, and I have been around other orcas not related to Sea World's group. I do have direct contact with many people who work with Sea World's orca program.):

Without reading all of the details in the comments, sadly both Blackfish and The Cove are full of bad info, made up info and skewed 'facts' to draw attention and make money. As someone who has been on the inside and the outside, they rank right up there with Sharknado for the level of actual truth to them. Of the 'experts' and ex-staff that Blackfish featured, most had been fired for not treating animals well, paid to be on camera or edited to twist the statements (and some are taking legal action over how they were lied to by producers). Some didn't even work there when Dawn's incident happened and didn't spend a day working with the orcas like they lead you to believe.

No parks in the US take wild marine mammals for display purposes anymore. They are only taken in for rescue/rehab. Collecting was done in a time when people didn't know any better (kind of like when women couldn't vote and we had public restrooms based on skin color). Yes, I'm serious about that. One post here was referencing the orca in Miami. That animal was under human care at a time when the park had big signs for the 'black only' and 'white only' restrooms. She is doing very well, and responds poorly to attempts to modify or change the area.

Today's marine life parks (with mammals) in the US are nothing like the activists are trying to sway the public into thinking. Animals lives are not cut short. Animals are not forced to do anything if they don't want to. Animals are always given food and any thing they need. Between USFW, USDA, AZA, Alliance of Marine Mammals, NOAA, state wildlife agencies and OSHA, parks are HIGHLY watched to ensure they are doing everything possible to provide the best care they can.

Tilikum didn't kill several people. This is a lie twisted into fact by activists. There were deaths associated with him, but when you know the facts instead of the lies, each is very understandable and the animal has done nothing wrong.

Let's look at real facts:

Orcas under Sea Worlds care live as long or longer on average compared to the average life span of a wild orca. You hear talk of a random orca living a long time as though all should. I also see humans hit 110. That is rare, not the standard to judge all by. Same is applied to orcas.

50% of orcas in the wild die as calves under a year old.

The knowledge gained from Sea World's orca programs has lead to dramatic changes in our ability to understand wild orcas, and help protect them world wide as well as improve our ability to keep them.

Yes, Sea World is a for profit business - like many parks. Why don't activists like to look at the amount of that profit invested into saving animals through the rescue / rehab / research end of the facility? Mostly because SW is doing huge amounts of it, and the activists wouldn't want the public to know the truth about the good SW is doing.

Talk of collecting wild orcas is not relevant in today's world. It hasn't been done in a very long time. Most of the marine mammals you see in today's parks have never seen the wild - nor could they survive there after being born into human care.

On that same note, the death rate of released orcas is 100%. Reintroduction is not like the activists want you to believe.


_______________________________

At the end of the day, do this: Research. Get the facts, not what the main stream media is trying to sway you with. Question where the info is coming from and what motives they have in presenting information/facts. From there, make you own choices.

amen brother. anyone that is "animals rights" is not to be trusted. terrorists, the whole lot of them, spewing their propaganda lies and filth

 

[Alexraptor]

Zoodiver, people like you are the reason we seriously need a "like" feature on the forum!

Whales belong in the ocean.

You do realise thats "exactly" what activists say about our fish and corals, right?

 

[Zoodiver]

Zoodiver, people like you are the reason we seriously need a "like" feature on the forum!

Thanks!

 

[thenewguy997]

Whales belong in the ocean.

Sometimes i watch my fish and think the same of them

Either you believe animals are here to serve as our amusement or yoy believe yhey are our equal and deserve to be free.

We argue about tank size but lets all be honest, unless you have a 400+ gallon tank you arent replicating a real reef

 

[Zoodiver]

I've never seen reef in the wild contained to the same area as a 400 gallon tank.

 

[thenewguy997]

No but its more realistic

 

[Zoodiver]

Or the other option is that they aren't being used as amusement, but actually to expose people to the diverse amount of life our oceans contain. They are animal ambassadors who are educating the human population who otherwise wouldn't be exposed to them.

 

[Ztrain]

It has always been entertaining to me when I hear people trying to instill their often miss guided morals on others. On one hand they'll sit there any complain about people taking animals out of the ocean. Then at the same time crying about how the coral reefs and their inhabitants will be extinct in the next 30 or so years. Okay so sounds like taking specimens and attempting to be able to grow and breed these in captivity to preserve them sounds like a good thing to me.