Where can I find info on large scale coral farming?

[raaden]

Jake,
Trust me it was not discouraging, only comical in the limited scope of their "vast" knowledge of aquaculture. My style is to just smile along with them and move onto the next guy in the chain when he gets tired of answering my questions. You would be surprised how quickly they will pass you up the chain when you ask them four or five questions they don't know the answer to. Good point on the aquanic reference. I have added it to my arsenal should I ever have to go down that road.


On the tanks issue, I am not sure how helpful this will be but I am planning on 6'x2'x30" tanks. The big reasons for the surface area decision was they way they would lay out within the greenhouse. The depth was strictly to allow for a greater water volume. Each of those tanks will hold ~300G, and I can't express how important the issue of temperature stability is in a greenhouse. That was one lesson I did learn well from the fish culture guys at the state. My hope is that it will help not only maintain the vat temps but also provide some GH ambient temp stability as well. 300G was a number I also heard from people using water walls in passive greenhouses.

As far as getting the tanks Redox brought up a good point, look for fiberglass builders and get them to make you some. They can do any size and shape, within reason and if you find someone local you are going to save a bundle. The people that would most likely do this sort of thing are RV shops, boat builders, pool shops, and some auto shops. For the tanks listed above I am looking at ~200 each with a quantity of 15. It is much more (in the $500-600 range) if you only want one or two though. As far as having to reach into the tanks I will be putting the corals in the top 18" of the tanks so I don't think it will be much of a problem.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8014846#post8014846 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Travis
Steven, do you have any pics of your tubs?

 

[Philip Root]

do you have a part number I call them and they told me that the cheapest tub that size was 990.00 dollars.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8025527#post8025527 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Philip Root
do you have a part number I call them and they told me that the cheapest tub that size was 990.00 dollars.

PD-5503

 

[Whaledriver]

You might consider laying 1 inch stone tiles loosely on the bottom of the 30 inch deep tanks and getting zoe's and shrooms to grow. The light should be just right on the bottom with MH's on top. Once they get going on the tile just glue it to a big rock and replace the old tile on the bottom.

 

[Steven Pro]

I am not planning on using any supplemental lighting other than the sunlight in my greenhouse. I do plan to build shelves much like the ones at Tropicorium and go most everything in the top third of the tubs, though.

 

[Travis]

Steven, I see those tubs have a pretty thick "lip". Are the 8 x 4 dimensions the inside of the tubs or the outside of the lips?

 

[jake levi]

Temp stability is a plus everywhere, as is water stability from greater depth, Dick Perrin still suggests the depth for water stability issues, he makes real good points and the thing that gives him an audience with me is he has made a living at this longer then most anyone else while others come and go.

Frankly I was looking at a 24" depth as that is half a ply sheet, so one sheet makes two sides. The greater stability can well be worth the extra cost of more ply. Dicks has a plenum under the substrate that the water moves back through to the other end. Most the vats are single recirculating units through a deep substrate bed. The suckers have worked for quite awhile.

If those 6' vats dont work out they could always be used for coffins for Raadens govt agency twits. I amNOT advocating trashing govt emplyees, just saying......

Stephen what climate zone are you in ?? How many months do you think will need hardcore heating ? 4 ?

 

[Steven Pro]

Stephen what climate zone are you in ?? How many months do you think will need hardcore heating ? 4 ?

I am in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I am figuring on pretty cold temperatures for 3-4 months. But, it is not a major concern for me as we have a gas and oil well on the property, therefore up to 300,000 cubic feet of free natural gas per year. And, if I go over, I only pay well head prices.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8030756#post8030756 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jake levi
If those 6' vats dont work out they could always be used for coffins for Raadens govt agency twits.

Speaking of coffins, I looked into using concrete coffin vaults. They ended up costing $1/gallon, just like the plastic tubs I bought. But, they had to still be painted. Plus, they would have had to be delivered in put in place and then the building put up around them. The plastic tubs I can muscle around myself.

 

[H20ENG]

Steven,
I'm glad you researched the vaults. I was going to mention them again as a weighty alternative. It looks as though they are not as cheap as once thought.

LOVE this thread!

 

[jake levi]

Steven are you going to plumb them inline or each independent ? What kind of turnover/pumps ?

I have to go to Home Depot next week and am going to check out 1" ply and start pricing out some ply vats just for the fun of it. Both 24" deep and 30". A 6oo gal vat would take a pretty good pump to turn it over hourly.

 

[Steven Pro]

They are all going to be separate.

I was originally going to use one big blower or linear piston pump and airlifts. But, now I am considering Tunze Streams. I want to do a test with my current linear piston pump which is a 2.5 cfm pump and see how many lifts it would operate at 24" and at what produced flow rate. Then extrapolate up for what I would need. Then add in the cost of all the plumbing (both for the manifold as well as the airlifts), valves, and airline tubing and see how that compares in both initial cost and wattage to noncontrollable Streams.

 

[raaden]

Steven,
I must say I am a little jealous hearing about the free heating. I am looking at spending ~60% of my operating costs heating the GH in the winter (in NC) so that is a great asset. Also I am looking forward to reading about your trials with the Tunze vs the air lifts.

----------
I would like to bring up the following point, not to continue a hotly debated topic as there are much better threads for that, but to discuss it in terms of whether it would be viable to use it in this sort of an operation.

Algal Turf Scrubbers.

I bring this up because I have been discussing it in both the BP thread and offline (Thanx Galilean and WhaleDriver), it seems to have some potential benefits. These benefits also seem to key in on the biggest resources any business needs to conserve (time and money) so it seems like this would have to be atleast considered. So please take this as simply an invitation to discuss it and not as endorsement as I have very little experience with them ( I have used plant scrubbing in a 'fuge but not an actual ATS). Below I am discussing what I see as the pros and cons, but would really like to know what all of you think about it as well.

Pros

1. Fewer water changes. This would be a considerable savings in both time and money when you consider I will need to change out ~700G/month at full operation ($32/water $150/salt 14hrs to actually do it)
2. Yellowish water should not be a problem... or would it
3. Greater available food for coral consumption and growth. No need to do actual feeding or maintain a greenwater culturing station. This would save time doing the feedings and also maintaining the MA culture
4. I could maybe get away with not using RO/DI water as the plants will take up the undesirables. Money savings as the water now becomes free (well @ ~100TDS w/Iron) and I will probably need to use a bunch more filters as I have a pretty good Iron content in my well
5. I have been looking at using a surge device of some sort anyway so this would simply be an addition
6. 'Pod Paradise... need I say more ( I love those little critters )
7. Xenia, Anthelia, Zo's should go wild in a setup like this. Quicker growth
8. If I use plants I could potentially sell them as well.
   [/list=1]
   
   Cons
   1. Complicates sytem setup and more moving parts to break/maintain
   2. Will probably still need to use some skimming (but hopefully less)
   3. Must maintain the turf screens ( not sure how much time would be involved)
   4. If I use plants could they go sexual on me and crash the system (this is worst case)
   5. How will this affect the corals when they go to a system that is not using an ATS with the amount of food available. I.e. into the store display will they shrivel and wilt.
      [/list=1]
      
      The rest of these I am putting together under the heading of heresay since I have no way to tell if they are true or not
      • Acros and other sps do not survive in ATS systems.
      • Responsible for system crashes ?????
      • Hard to get settled and working correctly
        [/list=a]
        
        Also I am interested in what you all think about just using a plant scrubber instead of an ATS. I have some experience with this is why I ask. Also what does everyone think as far as a choice of Macro to use if I do go this route.
        
        Thanx

 

[Steven Pro]

Steven,
I must say I am a little jealous hearing about the free heating. I am looking at spending ~60% of my operating costs heating the GH in the winter (in NC) so that is a great asset.

It was the primary reason I decided to go forward. A greenhouse has always been a dream of mine, but the gas well really pushed the dream to reality.

Also I am looking forward to reading about your trials with the Tunze vs the air lifts.

I will post the results here.

Fewer water changes. This would be a considerable savings in both time and money when you consider I will need to change out ~700G/month at full operation ($32/water $150/salt 14hrs to actually do it)

An ATS should help.

Yellowish water should not be a problem... or would it

No more so than in any other closed aquatic system.

Greater available food for coral consumption and growth. No need to do actual feeding or maintain a greenwater culturing station. This would save time doing the feedings and also maintaining the MA culture

You will still have to feed some anyhow.

I could maybe get away with not using RO/DI water as the plants will take up the undesirables. Money savings as the water now becomes free (well @ ~100TDS w/Iron) and I will probably need to use a bunch more filters as I have a pretty good Iron content in my well

I would still use purified water.

I have been looking at using a surge device of some sort anyway so this would simply be an addition

An excellent plus to this system.

'Pod Paradise... need I say more ( I love those little critters )

Ditto

Xenia, Anthelia, Zo's should go wild in a setup like this.

Any coral really.

If I use plants I could potentially sell them as well.

Certainly potential there if you use a more common refugium with macroalgae versus an ATS system.

Complicates sytem setup and more moving parts to break/maintain

No more so than a protein skimmer.

Will probably still need to use some skimming (but hopefully less)

I would still use a skimmer.

Must maintain the turf screens ( not sure how much time would be involved)

It takes no longer to clean a screen than to clean a protein skimmer collection cup.

If I use plants could they go sexual on me and crash the system (this is worst case)

Use chaetomorpha or other similarly stable algae. Avoid caulerpa.

How will this affect the corals when they go to a system that is not using an ATS with the amount of food available. I.e. into the store display will they shrivel and wilt.

No different than wild caught corals going into LFS's.

Acros and other sps do not survive in ATS systems.

BS

Responsible for system crashes ?????

More BS

Hard to get settled and working correctly

Can take a little time to dial in the flow rate to get the proper surge.

 

[WarDaddy]

raaden,
How well will the green house hold up to wind. I am hopeing to land north of Atlanta, and wind is a worry for me. I know hurricane force wind will not make it that ar inland, bur Tropical foce wind will.

How do the green houses hold up to those storms?

 

[Whaledriver]

As far as water changes go, you probably wont have to do them once things are up and you are shipping. If you add up all the water that leaves with the frag you are about the same as a water change so you really are just doing make up water. Its the same thing in the end but will change your business plan.

 

[raaden]

Steven,

Thanx for the comments. I was hoping some of this was just BS but it is so hard to tell from the threads I have seen. I think from the posts and discussions I will go ahead and try out a couple of systems in my GH. I take it you recommend going with a tidal turf algae and the medium for this sort of thing.


The first one I think I will try is a xenia/anthelia system. Anyone see any issues with keeping a tank full xenia/anthelia in an ATS run system. Xeniids have always been pretty hearty for me and I am hoping that I can use this to test out any reactions.

As far as storms go check out Treemans (hope things are going better TM) thread and I think you can understand how these things hold up. A plastic sheeted building is not designed to withstand a big storm. Polycarbonate panels will do better than poly sheeting will, but it is still a plastic covered building. Most GH suppliers will tell you that they withstand to ~85MPH winds, but that is just the frame, put plastic on it and you now have a huge sail. It is a huge risk...

My shipping will be a bit different. I am not planning to sell on the Internet or do individual orders so I won't lose much water from shipping. I will be pulling only about 10-15G of water from each tank/month. I will be packing in 24Qt coolers for delivery to stores and can fit quite a bit of coral in one of those. I am looking at about 4 harvests/month/tank and that would be about 20G of water to replenish. For a 300G tank that is almost negligible in terms of water changes ~6%. When I was fragging I was doing almost 40% in makeup water/month, but you are right for a package shipping operation makeup water is a big expense.

 

[jake levi]

I have seen a number of xenia tanks with ATS sumps, I think anthelia can be reared as mushrooms, thats how I do them anyhow.

The reputable GH dealers I have spoken to will say the plastic will 'usually' hold to 50 mph, above that praying may help.

 

[jake levi]

Raaden have you run an ATS system ? A little different, like steering a battleship over a motor boat. But I think its more stable.