Where can I find info on large scale coral farming?

[hamburglar]

I'm still not 100% sold on the greenhouse idea on a small/medium scale. It just introduced some many more problems to overcome......for what.....just free light?

I was burning 1000 watts of heaters all night long in the winter, supplemented by about 80lbs of propane I might add. Now if I was inside my residence, or a well insulated building, I could have used less than that wattage for artificial lighting. I only had 250 useable gallons after all.

Just a few other less expensive problems introduced with a greenhouse:

Weeds
Ants/Spiders/Wasps (oh yea, they love it in the winter)
Massive cooling issues in the summer
Dry storage space
Temperature sensitive storage (chemicals that settle when cooler than 70 degrees)
Equipment lifespan shortened by corrosion/condensation
Physical security
Constant checking on ventilation systems (greenhouse cooks fast if vents do not open)
Storm damage risk
Neighbors thinking you grow weed
One more thing to mow around

 

[zeuss zoso]

I recieved an ad in the newspaper dealing with lighting and I stumbled across this new product called the Solatube. It is a a funnel for bringing free lighting into the house. It is like a normal recessed light but with no lightbulb when you look at it from inside the house. Why couldn't you use this but DIY a little so that it funnels the light even more, using products such as reflectors used in MH fixtures and bring it down to tank level? Free lighting, no extra heat, inside stability. You could supplement actinics between them and make the light bluer to your liking. The site is www.grskylights.com, but I think it is down right now. I am very interested in aquaculture and eventually having my tanks and everyone elses 100% non-wild livestock.

Thanks, Alex

 

[hamburglar]

Not to shoot the idea otally down, but Ive heard a couple people report poor results with them. They are not bad for providing ambiant light levels, but that is about it.

 

[jake levi]

A couple points. the lighting system using natural light funneled through the roof works fine in stores, an Amish hardware store had them installed, he said its VERY expensive, but it gave very statisfactory light in the store.

The best greenhouses I have seen for fish and orchids have high sides that can be raised in the summer for airflow. Anything else is too hot for fish and orchids.

In the fwiw department, I was pricing some stuff in Home Depot yesterday, noted they had 18 gal rubbermaids for 4.50 and 50 gals for 16.87, those 50 gal ones would be handy for many things including curing homemade rocks, sumps etc.

 

[RedSonja]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7862426#post7862426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jake levi

In the fwiw department, I was pricing some stuff in Home Depot yesterday, noted they had 18 gal rubbermaids for 4.50 and 50 gals for 16.87, those 50 gal ones would be handy for many things including curing homemade rocks, sumps etc.

We're using a 25g one as a sump for our 100g stock tank now, I think it cost about $8.00. Much easier to drill than glass!

-Sonja

 

[raaden]

Ham brings up an interesting point, what is the cutoff for reasonably successful greenhouse culture. I did some really rough energy consumption calculations early on for "the plan" and came up with a propogation space of 400sf at an energy cost of $.078/kw and <$2.00/gal of propane. This is not total greenhouse space but actual usable area which has to take into account the layout of the space. With my best workable layout including equipment, workbench, sink, storage etc. the smallest size I could break even with was 685sf or a 20x36 greenhouse.

Some real quick basis number are
1 250w MH light per 2.5sf
1 sf of surface = 2 cf of water
most water movement by air pumps
propane was used primarily for heating ambient air
wholesale pricing to retailers directly (numbers in "the plan"
standard double poly greenhouse covering with water wall on the north side of the gh
average monthly temps for Central NC

I (with the help of many of you) have made some things more efficient and could probably bring this down to 325-350 for a gh size of closer to 20x28 but I doubt it would be possible for a size less than that. I am not sure what size that fits into but I would think it could be stretched into the Medium sized realm.

 

[Steven Pro]

Or, you could put your greenhouse on a farm with an oil and gas well and get free natural gas to heat it with.

 

[hamburglar]

Steven, we have hog farms around here? I wonder if we could use methane?

Raaden, did you ever do a comparrison calculation with an indoor, artificial lighting system? perhaps this truly deserves two seperate calcualtions....one for soft coral systems, and one for hard coral calculations. They have such different lighting and filtration requirements.

I'm curious if anyone out there is doing hard core xenia, mushroom, zoanthid, or leather propagation indoors with VHO, Power Compacts, or T5's.

 

[raaden]

The calcs I did were for indoor temp controlled climate vs. gh type conditions. I didn't really look at stonies vs softies but you are right it would make quite a difference. I looked at the MH's for all lighting required. I seem to recall a post not too long ago where someone was asking the same question about T-5's for aquaculture of softies. GARF also IIRC was using either VHO's or T-5's for their raceways (There is a picture stuck in my head like that) mounted on lifters so they could get at the corals. It would also seem that MH's are wayy overkill for all of the species you listed so I would say it seems feasible. Then if you consider about a 30-35% decrease in lighting costs it seems doable to way above the 600sf I poster earlier.

Steven,
My guess is that someone with those sorts of extractable resources on their farm is not doing much farming at this point... ;}

 

[jake levi]

softs lighting

softs lighting

Ham wrote:
"I'm curious if anyone out there is doing hard core xenia, mushroom, zoanthid, or leather propagation indoors with VHO, Power Compacts, or T5's."

These will certainly grow them but I think its overkill, and pricier then needed.

Reg. flours with ice caps or similar is ample for these.

I am told from a friend who used to write regularly for a mag that the components for power compacts are available on the net from electrical distributors at a fraction of the aquarium industry costs. I havent checked this out yet but plan to. These also included VHOs. VHOs with ice caps are ample for anemones and most soft corals.

I've mentioned this before but will again, visit Tropicorium so asnot to reinvent the wheel, Inland Aquatics is worth seeing too.

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

Re: softs lighting

Re: softs lighting

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7882910#post7882910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jake levi
Ham wrote:
"I'm curious if anyone out there is doing hard core xenia, mushroom, zoanthid, or leather propagation indoors with VHO, Power Compacts, or T5's."

These will certainly grow them but I think its overkill, and pricier then needed.

Reg. flours with ice caps or similar is ample for these.

I am told from a friend who used to write regularly for a mag that the components for power compacts are available on the net from electrical distributors at a fraction of the aquarium industry costs. I havent checked this out yet but plan to. These also included VHOs. VHOs with ice caps are ample for anemones and most soft corals.

I've mentioned this before but will again, visit Tropicorium so asnot to reinvent the wheel, Inland Aquatics is worth seeing too.

Are you the same Jake Levi that knows John Progno in Spencerport NY?

 

[hamburglar]

That is true about the power compacts. I bought lots of kits from www.ahsupply.com about 6 years ago. As parts have died i have replaced from random sources like EBay for much less money than the origional kits.

I guess I would need to pay more attention to the Garf pages for reg flour. use.

 

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7851878#post7851878 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven Pro
Well, my tubs came in today. Unfortunately, the shipping company has made life difficult. They were supposed to be on two pallets, six stacked high, nested. The shipping people wanted to jam more freight in their truck, so they stacked them 11 high on one pallet with one throw on top of a bunch of other boxes. All the tubs seem to be fine, except that I can't get the bottom 5 unstuck from one another. Have you ever gotten a couple of buckets stuck together? Imagine trying to yank 200 pounds tubs apart. Otherwise, they are nice and sturdy and exactly what I was looking for.

By the way, I forgot to mention that the shipping company put them in a freezer truck with about a million frozen chocolate chip cookies. So, not only were they weighted down and jammed together, they were also frozen solid.

I got all my tubs apart yesterday. We used a backhoe to lift them. We anchored straps around the top one and lifted the entire stack. A couple of bounces with the backhoe got the top one to come free and the rest to fall back to the ground. We then just repeated the process until all five were free. Good thing I have a lot friends with heavy equipment!

 

[jake levi]

Hi Gary
yup, tis me,

One of these days I'm going to do an "most unforgetable character" article on John, he sure is one. Only guy I know with his own tugboat for crusing the Erie Canal.

Hows he doing ? I havent seen him in too long, I need to get back to NY just to look him up and a couple of others. Tell him I tried emailing but my emails bounced.

He and Caribbean Forest got quite a few of my cultured rocks. Is he still using that greenhouse for grow-out or is it inactive now ?

Tell him I said hi and to email me please.

And the folks at Carribbean Forest. Both really nice pro shops !

 

[cloudancer]

Re: softs lighting

Re: softs lighting

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7882910#post7882910 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jake levi
Ham wrote:
"I'm curious if anyone out there is doing hard core xenia, mushroom, zoanthid, or leather propagation indoors with VHO, Power Compacts, or T5's."

These will certainly grow them but I think its overkill, and pricier then needed.

Reg. flours with ice caps or similar is ample for these.

I agree it would be overkill (at least on your power bill!) Right now we have some zoo's, 'shrooms, and various softies under 4 T8's on 2 ice caps and all of them are looking good. We are trying to figure out how to put a Lights of America floodlight on it and still be able to see into the tank (this is a 100g stock tank for quarantine and frag growout, so the viewing is from the top, downward) as a local reefer had an emergency move and we acquired a very large clam and some sps frags that need more light. But for just the softies, the T8's are, um, great!

-Sonja

edit: Don't know how I ended up logged in as my husband, except that my laptop is in for repairs and I'm using a desktop until it gets back. He must've been logged in on this machine last. Sorry about that.

 

[hamburglar]

Expect a quiz on Saturday Sonja

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7912808#post7912808 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jake levi
Hi Gary
yup, tis me,

One of these days I'm going to do an "most unforgetable character" article on John, he sure is one. Only guy I know with his own tugboat for crusing the Erie Canal.

Hows he doing ? I havent seen him in too long, I need to get back to NY just to look him up and a couple of others. Tell him I tried emailing but my emails bounced.

He and Caribbean Forest got quite a few of my cultured rocks. Is he still using that greenhouse for grow-out or is it inactive now ?

Tell him I said hi and to email me please.

And the folks at Carribbean Forest. Both really nice pro shops !

I will tell everyone you said hello. It's unbelievable that I've located you on RC! Make sure to check out the Upstate Reef Society forum on RC.

 

[Whaledriver]

As I have been reading and thinking about this thread the idea of contract farming popped into my head. Someone with 1000 gallon set up could grow a few thing and then take them in bulk to a wholesaler. If a wholesaler had 10-20 guys supplying him like this he could run operation large enough to reach economies of scale.

I would think the profit for the individual growers would be less but so would the headach's. It would only take a monthly delivery to make it worthwhile. You could give him access to all the other growers products and help him control his supply costs.

For the wholesaler there are lots of benefits. He could really push the farm raised environmental aspect. He will also have a steady dependable supply. If he markets nationwide he should be able to achieve a volume no local grower could ever dream of.

This whole concept comes out of the idea of making a hobby a part time income producer. It also helps to have a goal and a motivation to rationalize the way I spend my free time.

 

[tangdiver]

All is good except for all the paracites...I am running into it on a very small scale...not sure what a larger one would run into.

Just my thoughts...not against it...need control over paracites...nudi and worms...


Grant

 

[jake levi]

You can over time eliminate the nasties, particularly if you are making and culturing your own rocks, this is one of the arguements for making your own rock, you can culture with them what you want to be there.

In my case I had mine populated with good populations of pods,

you can greatly reduce in your brood stock tanks the kinds and amounts of what you dont want there. Some jaw fish and dottybacks will do an excellent job of keeping the nastys in check. Throw in a couple small wrasses and you shouldnt have much of a problem in your brood stock tanks/vats.

This grower network for a wholesaler/distributor is something I seriously think that you will see a lot of coming on, its a win-win for both sides. Poor growers will weed themselves out as will the buyers who dont/wont treat their growers right. The best deal is always where both sides can benefit/profit.