Why should we keep fish in breeding condition

[Paul B]

I am in a writing mood and getting excited because tomorrow is Thanksgiving and I had a few ideas banging around in this bald head so I figured I would post some of them. I also see my name mentioned in a few places as the Paul b method of keeping fish healthy. But "my method" if there is such a thing won't work unless it is done correctly so don't blame me if your fish are croaking. By the way, this is all just my opinion and I am an electrician, not a marine biologist, rocket scientist, or rap singer.
I know I mentioned this fifty times but I am going to re iterate.
The first thing that I am sure we all know is that fish are slimy. There is a reason fish are slimy. Do fish want to be slimy? I don't know, do you want to be slimy? It would do us no good to be slimy unless we wanted to get into tight places. Actually, fish do that and I guess the slime helps with that but that is not the reason for the slime. Fish, unlike us, manufacture antibodies in a few places in their bodies and much of it is made in their slime glands. Slime is a great place to store antibodies because it completely covers a fish and as we know, it is sticky. Unfortunately for the fish, it does not cover their gills because that would prevent them from breathing but the gills have their own protection other than slime.
Eels are very slimy and I doubt they ever get sick, but I really don't know.
Anyway fish and humans have much better immune systems when they are pregnant. We do, well not me, I am a manly man, but females do as some human diseases either go away or get much better when they are pregnant. It's the body's way to protect the baby. I know that Multiple Sclorosis in humans gets much better while a woman is pregnant.
But i am not a woman doctor or any other kind of doctor, I am just a bald guy with a fish tank.
Back to fish. Fish are much different than us (well most of us, but I did date a girl in Colorado that resembled a flounder)
Fish for some reason have reved up immune systems when they are in breeding condition. Why? I don't know, work with me here.
I don't know exactly why but in almost 60 years of keeping, collecting, eating and raising fish I learned a few things. I learned much of it from killing multitudes of fish from ich and just about everything else until I found the secret. I am sorry fish that I didn't discover these things sooner.
For some reason, fish in breeding condition just don't get sick.
For a fish to be able to grow eggs, which may be a third of the fishes weight in a week or two requires a lot of energy from the fish.
My tiny pair of clown gobies spawned 4 or 5 times in the last three weeks, that is like a woman having a baby every other tuesday. Imagine the diaper and college expenses. Some fish, like damsels can get into breeding condition by just looking at another, good looking damsel, but most fish can not.
I see all the time that I am missquoted and just recommend that you feed some blackworms and the fish will miraculously get into great condition and be immune from everything including bubonic plague, radiation poisoning and a multitude or social conditions. That is not exactly correct.
I do recomment live (not freeze dried, frozen, fricasied, stir fried or boiled) but live blackworms or live whiteworms. What is it in live worms that performs this magic? Again, work with me as I have no idea. It comes from experience, but I do know that if live worms are fed every day, not just once in a while and not with flakes, the fish has a much better chance to get into breeding condition and ultimately, become disease free. You don't have to raise the fish, the fish won't call you child killer or wish any ills on you as adult fish spawn every few weeks for their entire lifespan. If they are not, they are not healthy. Of course I am talking about fish that can spawn in a tank, not manta rays, great white sharks, or tangs. Actually, tangs will spawn in a large enough tank.
So if you feel you want to quarantine, thats fine, but while you are at it, get your fish into breeding condition and you will not have any problems except the one I have, and that is what to do with a fish that you have for 20 years and you are tired of it so you have to donate it to a public aquarium.

References:

Really? you actually think I have any references? Listing references means that someone you don't know wrote something, you read it and believed it enough to re write it. This is my opinion and as I said, I am an electrician.
Why would you believe me? Do your own research. :wave:

This is me with my first girlfriend, I am sure she just helped me collect some worms to feed my fish.

 

[NiTr0x911]

I love reading your opinions on this hobby and the things that have worked for you Paul.I did think you were a Rap singer though. :dance: Do you know anyone online that sells live Black or white worms online? Hope your Thanksgiving is a Great one.

 

[Paul B]

Actually, no I don't. I just write this stuff, I have no idea where to get this stuff as here in NY they are available in many places but I do realize that not everyone can get them and that is a shame as they make this hobby so much easier.
I know they sell them online but you have to buy a lot of them and they don't live in a condo and pay the rent themselves. I would get my LFS to order them by telling him what a great deal and money maker they are.
I was just looking at that picture of myself. I must have been five years old at the time (that is my dad's 1947 Pontiac behind us) At that age in Queens New York which is part of New York City, my Mother used to put me on the bus, by myself and tell the bus driver to let me off at my Dad's fish market about 15 miles away in Jackson Heights. I would sit behind the driver and he would let me out in front of the store, which wasn't even a bus stop and he would watch me go in. Could you imagine doing that today? Not only would you get arrested but you would find that kid 10 years later working a side show in Coney Island.

 

[NiTr0x911]

Times have definitely changed. You two look like you have matching outfits..lol Nowadays if you seen a young kid behind a wheel he probably carjacked it There a bait shop or two around here somewhere. I think I'll go find out where they get their worms. For all I know I may be able to go dig some up. I'm worm stupid.

 

[AZBigJohn]

Paul, as a member who always loves reading your posts, enjoys your stories, lives thousands of miles away from you but would love to shake your hand, go for a boat ride, and have my grandkids play with yours..

Have a great Thanksgiving!

John

 

[Paul B]

Thanks John and happy Thanksgiving to you and your family. I am going to see my Grand Kid now. She called me this morning and she calls me Pop Pop. I love it.
My fish will have to take care of themselves today.
Have a great day.
Paul :beer:

 

[Nina51]

working a side show in Coney Island.

is that the same thing as running away with the circus? i tried doing that but they sent me back. apparently, carousel horses don't eat/poop so there was nothing for me to do. *sigh*

happy thanksgiving, paul, and thanks for the laughs!!

 

[billsreef]

Paul, your killing me with the mythinformation here

Fish for some reason have reved up immune systems when they are in breeding condition. Why? I don't know, work with me here.

It's called healthy fish breed, not that they have a revved up immune system.

For some reason, fish in breeding condition just don't get sick.

I know quite a few professional aquaculturists that wish there was even a shred of truth to that. Sadly it is quite easy to infect otherwise perfectly healthy and robustly breeding fish. All it takes is the introduction of the disease organism such as Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium, etc. I've seen it first hand all too often...all as a result from others that chose not to listen to me about QT'ing, and introduced disease into my lab's actively breeding fish I know plenty of other marine biologists and aquaculturist that that will tell you the same thing, based on their experience.

References:

Really? you actually think I have any references? Listing references means that someone you don't know wrote something, you read it and believed it enough to re write it. This is my opinion and as I said, I am an electrician.
Why would you believe me? Do your own research. :wave:

Umm, in some cases I do in fact know the people that wrote the research papers I've read. I also know how to read the paper and come to my own conclusion about the research presented. Not to mention having done plenty of my own research and observations over a couple of decades as a Marine Biologist and professional aquarist/aquaculturist

 

[Paul B]

Paul, your killing me with the mythinformation here

Bill, that Miami sun is soaking through your bald head.

It's called healthy fish breed, not that they have a revved up immune system.

That's semantics. I call it reved up immune systems, you call it Healthy fish breed. :bum:

I know quite a few professional aquaculturists that wish there was even a shred of truth to that.

You should meet better professional aquaculturists. :facepalm:

All it takes is the introduction of the disease organism such as Cryptocaryon, Amyloodinium,

If that is true, then ask those professional aquaculturists why my fish never get sick. Like ever as Taylor Swift says. I am sure there have been quite a few Cryptocaryon paracites added to my tank in the last 40 years. What happened to those paracites. They can't answer that. Probably because fish in their tanks die from paracites. (they need to feed worms)
My tank has been running for over 40 years, how long has the professional aquarists tanks been running? I ask that because a tank 5 or 6 years old is not a good test. Have they been feeding as I suggest? If not, then how do they come to the conclusion that I am wrong?
A few years ago I asked on here if there was anyone who would like to put an ich infected fish in my tank as a test. My tank is an experiment and that is the way I learn. No one came forward with a fish. But that is how sure I am that my fish are immune from paracites. Now that deal is of the table as I am old and don't want to argue because if I did put that fish in my tank, and nothing got sick, there would be some scientist saying it was due to some anomaly in the test, or those paracites were not the correct type, or I need to do the test 10 times to be accurate or some other excuse.
I think they need to take some fish, feed them as I suggest for a few years (not weeks) and then introduce some paracites. Then I can say things like the paracites were not the correct type or they need to do the test 10 times etc.

I know plenty of other marine biologists and aquaculturist that that will tell you the same thing, based on their experience.

Bill, we all have experience and if the professionals got most of their experience in a classroom, they may be slightly wrong. (I also may be slightly wrong but I hate to admit that) The fact is that I (meaning me) in my experience of almost 60 years dealing with paracites (none of it in a classroom) have never, not even once seen a spawning fish die from paracites. I won't say it can't happen but I have went through probably more fish than most people on here if just for the fact that I am old. :smokin:
I have a cousin who is a Marine Biology Professor and when he looks in my tank, he has no Idea what he is looking at or have any Idea how to keep a fish alive. He has never kept a fish and for that professorship he had to dive exactly once in Fiji. He can however tell me the name of every worm or crustacean in my tank in Latin.

Umm, in some cases I do in fact know the people that wrote the research papers I've read.

Bill, you know I love you, (we are both bald) but I stand by my "opinion" that spawning fish don't (hardly) get sick. Unless you can point to another reason why my fish are existing some of which are 20 years old and I have never quarantined in 35 or so years.
Can your professional aquaculturists explain that to me. As I said, I am just a professional electrician with a fish tank and I want to know these things. If it is not the fact that all my fish are spawning than is it the mud I add from your old neighborhood? The music I listen to? My good looks?
There has to be a reason because I am not that lucky. So if my reasoning is wrong, what is the alternative reason?
I can, and sometimes do put an obviousely ich infected fish in my reef. ( I recently did that with a copperband that I got for five bucks) Nothing ever happens. That fish may die, but nothing, ever gets infected. Is that in a text book someplace?

Not to mention having done plenty of my own research and observations over a couple of decades as a Marine Biologist and professional aquarist/aquaculturist

So have I, and I, like you have also been diving for many years. I did my research by diving since 1971. (I do think your wet suit is newer than mine though) :wave:

So Bill, now we have to figure out where the paracites in my tank went. With all the fish, rocks, mud and NSW I add every few weeks, they have to be in there someplace. According to modern research, they are still in there bouncing of the walls and doing the macarana. What else are they doing? So before we go and say my theories are wrong, we have to answer that question. And if the researchers fish are dying after they add some cryptocaryn, maybe they need to change their practices because obviousely they are doing something wrong.

Bill, are you still in Miami?

 

[Nanook]

Holy Gopher Feces!!! I've never heard anyone so full of himself:lol:

[chimp]

 

[Paul B]

Nanook, I am more full of myself than you can possably imagine. (especially after Thanksgiving)
But aside from that, (and it is true by the way) I am still patiently waiting for an answer as to what the paracites in my, and other people's tanks are doing while they are not infecting fish. I don't know how else to say it without sounding full of myself, (which I already admitted, I am)
If we knew this, there would be no paracite problems.
I do say, multitude times that I am not the God of fish and am just an electrician with a fish tank which is why I am asking, rather than telling something that is obviousely not well understood in this hobby.
We also know all about the ich life cycle, or do we? :worried:
Why do humans who come from a cushy lifestyle in the US get dysentery when we go to Mexico? Most Mexicans don't get it. Why is that? Why when I was stationed in Viet Nam did I have to take malaria pills every day or I was almost sure to get malaria as many POWs got? Most Vietnamese people didn't get it and they had no pills. Why are some tanks seemingly immune from infections even though infected fish are added all the time? I guess I just don't know. :reading:
If that were the case, all we would have to do is quarantine everything and all would be well. That is often not the case as there are so many ich threads and many people quarantine.
Now I am going to look in the mirror for a while as my head keeps getting bigger. :lmao:

 

[billsreef]

Bill, that Miami sun is soaking through your bald head.

We've known each other long enough you should know I wear a hat to keep the sun from frying the noggin, especially in this Miami sunshine

That's semantics. I call it reved up immune systems, you call it Healthy fish breed. :bum:

Semantics, along with grammar, can indeed be important differences.

You should meet better professional aquaculturists. :facepalm:

Hmm, one of them was awarded Aquarist of the Year at MACNA this year. Be rather hard pressed to find a better aquaculturist

(they need to feed worms)

Ah yes, the magic black worms. How did marine fish ever mange to exist all these eons in the ocean without black worms?

Bill, we all have experience and if the professionals got most of their experience in a classroom, they may be slightly wrong.

The professionals I know and deal with (being one myself) not only have the classroom education (sometimes that classroom is hands on research), but years of hands on daily experience.

The fact is that I (meaning me) in my experience of almost 60 years dealing with paracites (none of it in a classroom) have never, not even once seen a spawning fish die from paracites. I won't say it can't happen but I have went through probably more fish than most people on here if just for the fact that I am old. :smokin:

Some of us pro's often deal with more fish in a year than a multitude of electricians (and others) will go through in a couple of lifetimes Kind of opens up the perspective a bit when your observations are based on thousands of fish annually instead of the number of fish you can work with in one small tank. My old lab at times would have upwards of 10,000 juvenile and subadult fish being grown out, with about 6,000 adults in breeding condition. Won't even get into the mind boggling numbers of larvae.

I have a cousin who is a Marine Biology Professor and when he looks in my tank, he has no Idea what he is looking at or have any Idea how to keep a fish alive. He has never kept a fish and for that professorship he had to dive exactly once in Fiji. He can however tell me the name of every worm or crustacean in my tank in Latin.

Sounds like your cousin is an invert guy. They don't tend to know much about fish. Likewise, the fish guys don't tend to know much about worms Next time invite an Ichthyologist (marine biologist that specializes in fish) such as Richard Pyle over and see how many fish he can name, along with having more dive time (and deeper) than the two of us combined.

 

[Paul B]

Hmm, one of them was awarded Aquarist of the Year at MACNA this year. Be rather hard pressed to find a better aquaculturist

That is indeed impressive. I never went to MACNA. I was awarded two bronze stars but I am no where near the best soldier. (not even close) I didn't know there was an aquarist of the year, but now I do. Bill, I also think you are a very good aquarist, albeit, a bald one.

Ah yes, the magic black worms. How did marine fish ever mange to exist all these eons in the ocean without black worms?

Fish in the ocean would be a lot healthier if they had blackworms. But alas, it is not the worms, it is the fact that worms are a "live" food. But wait, food in the ocean "is" live. What a concept, feed fish live food just like they get in the ocean. Who would have thought :idea:

The professionals I know and deal with (being one myself) not only have the classroom education (sometimes that classroom is hands on research), but years of hands on daily experience.

So, Bill. You are a professional aquarist? What exactly is a professional aquarist because I want to become one. I used to have an urchin collecting business so I guess I was a professional urchinologist. But now I am just a retired electrician with a fish tank, and a bunch of unhappy worms. :sad2:

Some of us pro's often deal with more fish in a year than a multitude of electricians (and others) will go through in a couple of lifetimes

I am sure you professionals do, but how many of those fish are living for 20+ years while at the same time being exposed to multitudes of paracites, bacteria and viruses every day "and" are still spawning every month? :uhoh3: As for handling fish, I think I beat you, my family is in the seafood business but I am not sure if dead sardines and halibut qualify.

Next time invite an Ichthyologist (marine biologist that specializes in fish) such as Richard Pyle over and see how many fish he can name, along with having more dive time (and deeper) than the two of us combined.

I am sure he does, I am also sure he knows more than Gomer Pyle, he is also probably better looking that the two of us combined. I can't even name some of the fish in my tank, but I was married for months before I could remember my wife's name. But me and whats her name are still married for 40 years.

Bill, do you remember how I started this thread?

By the way, this is all just my opinion and I am an electrician, not a marine biologist, rocket scientist, or rap singer.

It is just something to think about, not absolute fact like our government would say. :lol: But an opinion. An opinion from a bald electrician with a fish tank.
I am just offering an opinion here. If anyone else has an opinion on how to keep fish disease free, I want to learn about it as I am not dead yet. But the day is young

 

[GreshamH]

I'd post in this thread, but it would just be :headwally: .

Meanwhile the aquaculture industry is FILLED with antibiotics and plagues wiping out fish, shrimp, abalone, etc all over the planet (both in the wild, and in farms). You may know Vietnam, but I know aquaculture. I sell feeds to most the worlds fish farms.

 

[GreshamH]

Holy Gopher Feces!!! I've never heard anyone so full of himself:lol:

<img src="http://www.reefcentral.com/images/chimp_shaking_head.gif"/>

:debi: stop, I can do it myself :lmao:

 

[hogfanreefer]

Entertaining read. Rookie but because of what I do I can tell you Mexicans do get diarrhea....when they come to America. Just like we get it when we go to a foreign country. It's because of different serotypes of GI bacteria that their (and our) immune systems are naive to.

I am actively looking for a source of live worms. At the very least they must be nutritious!

 

[Allmost]

Entertaining read. Rookie but because of what I do I can tell you Mexicans do get diarrhea....when they come to America. Just like we get it when we go to a foreign country. It's because of different serotypes of GI bacteria that their (and our) immune systems are naive to.

I agree with this.

I also find myself much more interested in breeding while on vacation.

 

[Paul B]

You may know Vietnam, but I know aquaculture.

The only thing I know about Viet Nam is some small clearings in the jungle on the Cambodian border and 2 or 3 words that I can't say here.

Meanwhile the aquaculture industry is FILLED with antibiotics and plagues wiping out fish, shrimp, abalone, etc all over the planet

I'm sure you are right, and I don't use any of that stuff.

stop, I can do it myself

You should stop reading this dribble, or you may get a headache from all the wrong information. :hmm4:

I am actively looking for a source of live worms. At the very least they must be nutritious!

According to some people you may be wasting your time with that. :wave:

 

[Green Chromis]

:fish1: It's not that they are worms, it's that they are alive or fresh with all the nutrients they contain. Best statement on this thread. I would like to feed live plankton on a regular basis to my tank, would this be a good idea or to many harmful parasites? :fish1:

 

[billsreef]

Live and fresh does not automatically equal nutritious. Adult live brine shrimp are a prime example, feeder goldfish another.