WonderWall

mhsmith said:
Do you have any pipes in your overflow? I am considering the same external overflows, and I was told that they usually just leave them as drains. Since the company supplies lids for each overflow they said they have never had complaints of noise.
Click to expand...

Yes, there are pipes in my overflow (there are pix & specifics earlier in this thread). Initially they were just PVC, but the vortex they created & air they incorporated was loud, so I put commercially available mufflers on them. That helped some (as do the lids I have on the tanks & overflow boxes). I also raised the level in the overflow to eliminate the waterfall noise.
I like the external overflows just fine (& would recommend them), but I would have them drill 3 holes instead of 2 so you can incorporate a bean animal (is my unsolicited, noob advice).

Don't get me wrong, it pretty quiet (especially considering how much water is moving through it). It's just not silent - which a bean animal is (my understanding anyways).

I read on RC a while back that someone put para cord (thin nylon 'rope' or thick nylon 'string') from the overflow, through the plumbing, into the sump to quiet the system down. The theory was that the water would cling to the cord. Has anyone heard of, or tried this?

Worm,
I, of course, forgot to ask where he sourced the LR. Sorry.

This weekend I tidied up my controllers & power packs:
sahuduse.jpg

I attached them to the back of plywood that supports the return manifold & 3" drain plumbing.
uzavebuz.jpg

I also finished the puzzle!!
All the stained glass panels are in!!
bazu3e8u.jpg

azenyjug.jpg

Who will win the race to repost my pix that tapatalk can't post?
TIA
Peace
 
GooManChew said:
Yes, there are pipes in my overflow (there are pix & specifics earlier in this thread). Initially they were just PVC, but the vortex they created & air they incorporated was loud, so I put commercially available mufflers on them. That helped some (as do the lids I have on the tanks & overflow boxes). I also raised the level in the overflow to eliminate the waterfall noise.
I like the external overflows just fine (& would recommend them), but I would have them drill 3 holes instead of 2 so you can incorporate a bean animal (is my unsolicited, noob advice).

Don't get me wrong, it pretty quiet (especially considering how much water is moving through it). It's just not silent - which a bean animal is (my understanding anyways).

I read on RC a while back that someone put para cord (thin nylon 'rope' or thick nylon 'string') from the overflow, through the plumbing, into the sump to quiet the system down. The theory was that the water would cling to the cord. Has anyone heard of, or tried this?

Worm,
I, of course, forgot to ask where he sourced the LR. Sorry.

This weekend I tidied up my controllers & power packs:
sahuduse.jpg

I attached them to the back of plywood that supports the return manifold & 3" drain plumbing.
uzavebuz.jpg

I also finished the puzzle!!
All the stained glass panels are in!!
bazu3e8u.jpg

azenyjug.jpg

Who will win the race to repost my pix that tapatalk can't post?
TIA
Peace
Click to expand...

Me I will
 
GooManChew said:
Yes, there are pipes in my overflow (there are pix & specifics earlier in this thread). Initially they were just PVC, but the vortex they created & air they incorporated was loud, so I put commercially available mufflers on them. That helped some (as do the lids I have on the tanks & overflow boxes). I also raised the level in the overflow to eliminate the waterfall noise.
I like the external overflows just fine (& would recommend them), but I would have them drill 3 holes instead of 2 so you can incorporate a bean animal (is my unsolicited, noob advice).

Don't get me wrong, it pretty quiet (especially considering how much water is moving through it). It's just not silent - which a bean animal is (my understanding anyways).

I read on RC a while back that someone put para cord (thin nylon 'rope' or thick nylon 'string') from the overflow, through the plumbing, into the sump to quiet the system down. The theory was that the water would cling to the cord. Has anyone heard of, or tried this?


THanks for the reply. I saw the pics and saw the 2 drain holes in the external overflow but did you place a Herbie drain? I was concerned about the free fall of water and the noise. I was told with the covers no one complained about noise however I was unsure. The tank manufacturer said it made a difference if I wanted to incorporate a Herbie drain overflow or Bean animal because the dimensions of the external overflow would need to change because of the weight of the water that they would have to hold. With the free fall very little water would be in the box whereas with the Herbie or Bean Animal the overflow is full of water and siphoning down. He said I would need to decide on the front end what I would do. I believe you answered my question. I do not want to do the Bean ANimal mainly because of all the plumbing, but I will probably do a Herbie. The plan for my tank will be 3 separate external overflow boxes so I was concerned about so many pipes with the Bean Animal. Thoughts??
Click to expand...
 
mhsmith said:
GooManChew said:
THanks for the reply. I saw the pics and saw the 2 drain holes in the external overflow but did you place a Herbie drain? I was concerned about the free fall of water and the noise. I was told with the covers no one complained about noise however I was unsure. The tank manufacturer said it made a difference if I wanted to incorporate a Herbie drain overflow or Bean animal because the dimensions of the external overflow would need to change because of the weight of the water that they would have to hold. With the free fall very little water would be in the box whereas with the Herbie or Bean Animal the overflow is full of water and siphoning down. He said I would need to decide on the front end what I would do. I believe you answered my question. I do not want to do the Bean ANimal mainly because of all the plumbing, but I will probably do a Herbie. The plan for my tank will be 3 separate external overflow boxes so I was concerned about so many pipes with the Bean Animal. Thoughts??
Click to expand...

My inexperieance is showing here, I don't know if my 'old school' drain has a name, I don't think so. I am familiar with the concept of a bean animal (& how it works), not so much with the Herbie system. There are 2 PVC pipes inside my overflow, their height determins how much water is in the overflow (& how far the water falls). They were just open ended before the 'maggie mufflers' were installed. The 2 drains inside the box, T into 1 drain just outside the box.
I posted in your build thread, why not have one looooooong overflow (like Sanjay in the video I linked in your thread) with one bean animal. That would eliminate 6 of the 9 drains necessary (less plumbing vs 3 seperate overflows).

mhsmith said:
BTW--beautiful tanks, and wonderful set-up
Click to expand...
Thank you!

Hope that helps!
Good luck.
Peace out!
Click to expand...
 
hey thanks for the response. I had looked at Sanjay's video. I like that longer overflow, however the tank builder said that 3 overflows is a safer design secondary to the weight of the long overflow and danger of breaking it with the install. I am glad however that I came upon your thread. It made me realize that the open drain method that I was considering would be to loud. I will definitely do some sort of siphon method. You may want to consider the Herbie overflow. It would only take a few modifications, and you wouldn't need to drill another hole in your overflow. If it didn't work you could always consider the other option of bean animal. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344892&highlight=herbie+overflows
that is the link above. You can just search also on reef central for herbie overflow.
Thanks again
 
mhsmith said:
. . . I am glad however that I came upon your thread. It made me realize that the open drain method that I was considering would be to loud. I will definitely do some sort of siphon method. You may want to consider the Herbie overflow. It would only take a few modifications, and you wouldn't need to drill another hole in your overflow. If it didn't work you could always consider the other option of bean animal. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344892&highlight=herbie+overflows
that is the link above. You can just search also on reef central for herbie overflow.
Thanks again
Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestion, I've been looking into Herbie style overflows (replacing the overflows with 3 holes (for a bean animal) is a bad idea - I'm a NooB, gimme a break).
I'm not sure something like that would work as I'm currently plumbed (there are lots of variables* in my system).
If it would, I would put a true union ball valve where I'm pointing.
picture.php


That way I could "tune" the drain with the return feed flow & achieve equilibrium. Eureka! I think I understand.
BUT, the *variables:
I have 4 tanks with 5 overflows going into a 3" drain (in 2 different locations & sizes, then split into 3 reduced 1 1/2" filter socks), so would it work if I put a ball valve right before the sump?
Each overflow has 2 bulkheads in it, there is a standpipe(?) with a maggie muffler inside the overflow. Outside the overflow the 2 pipes T together & then join a 3" main drain.

Here are a some pix of the basic drain configuration (less the standpipes & maggie mufflers):
Farthest from sump
There are 2 satallite tanks with 1" & the 'far' side of the main DT with 1 1/2" PVC that join & start the main 3" drain
picture.php


Closest to sump
1" from the display fuge & 1 1/2" from the 'close' side of the main DT
picture.php


From basement (obviously), farthest frop sump is at the top right & closest to the sump is where the drain turns down. You can also see the black coupler that I want to replace the ball valve (left of skimmer).
picture.php


The return feed is contolled by several ball valves, most in a central manifold (which, in my head, throws $h!t into the game (so to speak)):
picture.php


When o2manyfish tried to tell me how it wouldn't work in it's current configuration (oh, so long ago - 4 months), I didn't understand. He said it wouldn't work at all, so when we started it up & it "worked" (loudly), I thought he was wrong. I, now, (kinda) understand (or think I do) how restricting (limiting) the air into the drain, regulates it's flow, & how I jumped to a conclusion. I was wrong. It does 'work', but (I *think* I understand how) it's not quite 'right'.

o2manyfish said:
At the top of that 3" drain line you should have a vent line. With a fall that much you will get trapped air trying to go back up the pipe and a big bubble will block your top inlet (to the 3") and the overflow will stop working. All you need is a small line run from the top of the drain line to above the water height of the uppermost tank.

Dave B
Click to expand...

Going back & re-reading it, it seems I was quite an a$$. o2manyfish, I doubt that you will read this but, if you do - I'm sorry.

& thanks to the people (like Dave B, Worm, Newbie, Paul B, etc . . .) that try to help us Noobs (that just don't listen to tried & true advice).
Please don't give up on us!
You are our only hope.
Peace
 
Newbie Aquarist said:
I know. I can still wish and dream.
Click to expand...

That was a reality check.
I would never suggest that you stop wishing or dreaming!!
I posted a thread on my local board entitled Dream Tank. My dream tank was said to be unrealistic. To me, that was exactly the point! The very definition of a dream: unreal.

Any thoughts on the plumbing issue?
 
Sorry I was right...

I have made so many mistakes being in the hobby for almost 30 years. But to learn you have to see how things work. And when you start playing with fluid dynamics every time it is a little bit different.

With drain lines, sometimes it takes months before enough air gets trapped to stop the flow.

It sounds like you are figuring it out though with out having a major disaster and thats a good thing.

Good luck with everything and keep posting your progress.

Dave B
 
Mr. Chew,

I have been following this build from its conception, and I am very impressed with all that you have done. I wonder why it is that you are now deciding to change your drain configuration? Assuming it is a problem with how the water flows with the air through the pipes, your best bet is definitely regulate the amount of air entering the pipe. You should think of the inside of your drain line not as "how much will it flow" but more like "what is the volume of the pipe." If you have air entering the pipe with the water you are essentially displacing the total volume of water than can go into the pipe. With a configuration like yours it would be easiest in the long run for you would be to put a true union ball valve on each drain line to allow individual control over each individual tank. I strongly suggest not using a single ball valve in the basement, you will not be able to visually tell when you have your restriction point set right.
 
o2manyfish said:
Sorry I was right...

I have made so many mistakes being in the hobby for almost 30 years. But to learn you have to see how things work. And when you start playing with fluid dynamics every time it is a little bit different.

With drain lines, sometimes it takes months before enough air gets trapped to stop the flow.

It sounds like you are figuring it out though with out having a major disaster and thats a good thing.

Good luck with everything and keep posting your progress.

Dave B
Click to expand...

Thanks Dave!!

When people (non-reefers) ask me about my system, I tell them that it is more indicitive of someone who has been reefing for thirty years, not a first system. I'm a NooB - with an advanced system, yikes!



tredreef said:
Mr. Chew,

I have been following this build from its conception, and I am very impressed with all that you have done. I wonder why it is that you are now deciding to change your drain configuration? Assuming it is a problem with how the water flows with the air through the pipes, your best bet is definitely regulate the amount of air entering the pipe. You should think of the inside of your drain line not as "how much will it flow" but more like "what is the volume of the pipe." If you have air entering the pipe with the water you are essentially displacing the total volume of water than can go into the pipe. With a configuration like yours it would be easiest in the long run for you would be to put a true union ball valve on each drain line to allow individual control over each individual tank. I strongly suggest not using a single ball valve in the basement, you will not be able to visually tell when you have your restriction point set right.
Click to expand...

Thanks for following & commenting.
My goal of changing the drain configuration is soley to quiet it down. A full siphion would do that.
I didn't think 1 ball valve in the basement was the correct solution. Individual control is the way to go . . .
 
Nothing wrong with a NOOB with an advanced system.

There are lots of people who see a salt tank in a store or restaurant, and say I want that at home and start a simple tank. Then they meet an inevitable catastrophe and they are out of the hobby.

But for the die hard hobbyist, they are going end up at the advanced stage eventually. And the normal process for most people is to start out trying to invest as little as possible, and then as they learn realize that they need an advanced system not just for success but to also make success a little bit easier.

So nothing wrong with be bright enough to realize where you want to eventually end up in the hobby and researching properly to invest in what you want initially.

Dave B
 
Hey you might be a NOOB but I have been doing this for a long time, and only recently have I started trying to actually learn more about this. I think it is because I now want to design something that I will actually love. To do that, you cannot just let someone else do all your work and blindly think it is going to be the best way. I think you could also use a gate valve on each of the drain pipes from every tank. You could adjust the flow more precisely with a gate valve and maybe make it more silent without doing anything in the overflow. Good luck, I'm still trying to figure out what I am doing but I think I'm getting closer. Maybe I will do a thread, however I don't think I'm organized enough to do it.
 
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