10 months in - thinking about starting over
- Thread starter Ted_C
- Start date
aguila88psi
Zoa Addict
Don't know about the use of melafix for ridding vermatid snails :/ I doubt it'll do any damage to your inverts.
Alk & Calcium is also consumed by coraline, snails and other inverts, etc. It seems as if without a sand bed you need to dose a lot. If this is the case, you may need to use a combination of calcium reactor and 2 part dose or kalk and 2 part dosing. If you look at the TOTM, most use 2+ methods of maintaining adequate amounts of alk/cal/mag.
Alk & Calcium is also consumed by coraline, snails and other inverts, etc. It seems as if without a sand bed you need to dose a lot. If this is the case, you may need to use a combination of calcium reactor and 2 part dose or kalk and 2 part dosing. If you look at the TOTM, most use 2+ methods of maintaining adequate amounts of alk/cal/mag.
ichthyman
Active member
Correct assumption on the diminishing carbonate and the calcareous tubes. "Poo" makes what grows inside the tube possible.
It is that well established that a sandbed contributes very little, if anything, to alkalinity or calcium reserves of a typical marine aquarium. The presence of a sandbed in Ted's tank would not significantly change the current supplementation rate. However, I do agree that another form of Ca and Alk addition maybe more cost effective. My choice would be kalkwasser because the dosing infrastructure is already present and relative inexpensiveness.
Ted_C
Active member
I have some kalk lying around - allthough I'm not thinking of running a second supplement at this time. See - all those vermetid in the tank are sucking up the Alk for their tubes. They are out-competing the corals I have (or the more Alk and Ca I add - the more tubes I get and the bigger they get).
For the amount of corals I have and as yound as the reef is - I'll stick to the one supplement for now. Thanks for the offer though.
For the amount of corals I have and as yound as the reef is - I'll stick to the one supplement for now. Thanks for the offer though.
i had a lot of these snails but they never bothered my corals. i would find the webs in darker spots under the LR. they seemed to have disappeared after i got my copperband butterfly fish. i would recommend one if you have the means to keep it, feed it PE mysis or other enriched food. It should take out all your feather dusters and vermitid snails within the first week depending on how big your tank is.
Ted_C
Active member
Already have one Jorda. It lost it's appetite for Aiptasia (or its eating a lot less of it). It never touched the vermetid.
Neither do the Zebra hermits
Neither do Emerald Crab (whoever suggested this must have forgotten that emeralds are herbivores and vermetid are meaty).
The biological solutions for vermetid control are not effective. This thread summed it up nicely:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1592091
Biological methods to control these that have been suggested are anecdotal and have never been substianted. The important points from the thread linked above - only ONE reefer ever reported success with any one method.
The best advice I received was try to starve them out. Run filter socks and spot feed instead of broadcast feed.
Neither do the Zebra hermits
Neither do Emerald Crab (whoever suggested this must have forgotten that emeralds are herbivores and vermetid are meaty).
The biological solutions for vermetid control are not effective. This thread summed it up nicely:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1592091
Biological methods to control these that have been suggested are anecdotal and have never been substianted. The important points from the thread linked above - only ONE reefer ever reported success with any one method.
The best advice I received was try to starve them out. Run filter socks and spot feed instead of broadcast feed.
aguila88psi
Zoa Addict
hint hint hint, yellow coris wrasse....
Last edited:
bmullikin1
New member
my yellow coris wrasse hasnt touched them.
luamada
Love saltwater fishes...
What about if break down the tank and let freshwater running in the tank for a few days? Or even running chlorine in the tank for a day then replacing the water with salt water and using a declorinator for a few days? Let the tank recycle with new dead rocks? Starting fresh?
Please advise because I am about to do that and I am looking to buy a temp used tank for my fish and kill everything left in my tank that way... Please let me know
Please advise because I am about to do that and I am looking to buy a temp used tank for my fish and kill everything left in my tank that way... Please let me know
Ted_C
Active member
The challenge is keeping your stuff (fish, inverts, corals, etc.) alive through the breakdown / purge / new cycle. Its better if you have a second tank that you can start fresh with (Thats my thinking at least).
If you'd go this method - might as well use copper on the empty tank to kill the inverts in the plumbing.
Myself, I'm seriosly considering an upgrade to a 280. I have the real estate in between my living room / dining room to set it up as a peninsula style aquarium wall with an overflow on the 30" side. I can keep the 120 running while I'm setting up the 280. Once I transfer (fish + inverts + frag all the corals I have now) - I can break down the 120 and sell it and replace it with a simple 40 breeder for a frag tank.
If you'd go this method - might as well use copper on the empty tank to kill the inverts in the plumbing.
Myself, I'm seriosly considering an upgrade to a 280. I have the real estate in between my living room / dining room to set it up as a peninsula style aquarium wall with an overflow on the 30" side. I can keep the 120 running while I'm setting up the 280. Once I transfer (fish + inverts + frag all the corals I have now) - I can break down the 120 and sell it and replace it with a simple 40 breeder for a frag tank.
bmullikin1
New member
Thats what i am doing, setting up chris's old reef savvy, just sps, for the most part, cutting corals at base to get rid of vermitid snails, and red turf algae, atleast i hope, im sure some will get in somehow. Vermitids never bothered my corals, just ugly to look at and hurts when poked, red turf is kept in ck w mexican turbos and pencil urchins, but want rid of it.
) hope you figure this out and get them under control. Kill the uptasia because they will ruin your tank too. Watch out for them. Good luck
Ted_C
Active member
Changes in my current 120 from the last post:
Performed a 50 gallon water change with Red Sea Regular salt on 8/30 (in my opinion, this wasn't the correct action to take)
Been changing out filter socks 2x per day since 8/20. I have only been using the garden hose to rinse them out until yesterday. Washed them all with 1/8 cup of bleach in my washing machine. Ran a 2nd time with nothing to rinse them out. Started running this first one this morning.
Been dosing 100 ml of Ca and Alk total per day @ :00, :15 (on the hour every hour - about 2 ml per hour) (changed from Alk at night and Ca during the day). Also dosing 25 ml Mg at :30
Using new lot of Hanna ULR Reagents.
This is the first time I have ever read NO3 in my system. My PO4 has pretty much tripled as well - on average I was running .003 PPM PO4 (reading 10 on Hanna ULR). I've tripled that and am now reading between 35 and 28 on my Hanna ULR (explained by either the Red Sea Salt switch, the cleaning of the filter socks in the washing machine instead of the garden hose, and/or the switch in reagents for the Hanna Phosphorous checker).
so my dKH has come up by 0.7 points (0.2 meq/l) in the past 7 days by dosing 100 ml per day. Ca dropped (not really concerned with this - as it's within the precision of the test kit and as I get closer to balanced Alk and Ca - I've observed Ca drop like this before).
Considering before this whole fiasco with the vermetid - I was dosing 175 ml of two part to maintain the same increase in Alkalinity - I think I may be making some headway in stunting the growth of the vermetid.
or The flip side of this: I am still feeding the vermetid the Alk and Ca they need to build their tubes and the corals and clam have stopped growing. I dont think this is the case. I'm not really seeing new growth on the SPS in a week (impossible!) - but I am seeing some nice shell building on the squamosa. Its grown at least 1/2" of new shell since I got it.
Performed a 50 gallon water change with Red Sea Regular salt on 8/30 (in my opinion, this wasn't the correct action to take)
Been changing out filter socks 2x per day since 8/20. I have only been using the garden hose to rinse them out until yesterday. Washed them all with 1/8 cup of bleach in my washing machine. Ran a 2nd time with nothing to rinse them out. Started running this first one this morning.
Been dosing 100 ml of Ca and Alk total per day @ :00, :15 (on the hour every hour - about 2 ml per hour) (changed from Alk at night and Ca during the day). Also dosing 25 ml Mg at :30
Using new lot of Hanna ULR Reagents.
Code:
Prev Testing Results: 2.4 meq/l / 6.7 [U]ALK[/U] 460 PPM [U]Ca[/U] 1320 PPM Mg 0 PPM [U]NO3[/U] .028 PPM [U]PO4[/U] Salinity 1.027
Curr Testing Results: 2.6 meq/l / 7.3 [U]ALK[/U] 420 PPM [U]Ca[/U] 1280 PPM Mg 2 PPM [U]NO3[/U] .096 PPM [U]PO4[/U] Salinity 1.026
Trace Elements:
Fe: 0 PPM, I2: 0.06 PPM, K: 320 PPM.This is the first time I have ever read NO3 in my system. My PO4 has pretty much tripled as well - on average I was running .003 PPM PO4 (reading 10 on Hanna ULR). I've tripled that and am now reading between 35 and 28 on my Hanna ULR (explained by either the Red Sea Salt switch, the cleaning of the filter socks in the washing machine instead of the garden hose, and/or the switch in reagents for the Hanna Phosphorous checker).
so my dKH has come up by 0.7 points (0.2 meq/l) in the past 7 days by dosing 100 ml per day. Ca dropped (not really concerned with this - as it's within the precision of the test kit and as I get closer to balanced Alk and Ca - I've observed Ca drop like this before).
Considering before this whole fiasco with the vermetid - I was dosing 175 ml of two part to maintain the same increase in Alkalinity - I think I may be making some headway in stunting the growth of the vermetid.
or The flip side of this: I am still feeding the vermetid the Alk and Ca they need to build their tubes and the corals and clam have stopped growing. I dont think this is the case. I'm not really seeing new growth on the SPS in a week (impossible!) - but I am seeing some nice shell building on the squamosa. Its grown at least 1/2" of new shell since I got it.
Ted_C
Active member
I have some questions on this die off I have been seeing
1 - WIth the reduction in Algae in the display tank since I started running a UV - would snails that eat algae start going after the Xooanthlae in Corals for food?
2 - I yanked the following corals from the tank yesterday and pitched them: Montipora Undata, Red Dragon (sigh), Ultimate Purple Monster, Creative's Green Acro, Vivid's Icicle Tort, Emmet's dead Blue Polyp Purple Tort. The smell these are putting off are quite noxious - is that normal?
1 - WIth the reduction in Algae in the display tank since I started running a UV - would snails that eat algae start going after the Xooanthlae in Corals for food?
2 - I yanked the following corals from the tank yesterday and pitched them: Montipora Undata, Red Dragon (sigh), Ultimate Purple Monster, Creative's Green Acro, Vivid's Icicle Tort, Emmet's dead Blue Polyp Purple Tort. The smell these are putting off are quite noxious - is that normal?
rogergolf66
im an addict lol
I dont know about question 1 but 2. Yes the smell is normal even on healthy coral. I have notice some smell stronger then others
aguila88psi
Zoa Addict
I would think that there will still be some film algea for the snails to eat, eventually the number of snails will go down as they begin to die off and you'll be left with a smaller amount of snails but still keep your tank clean.
Ted_C
Active member
Switching Salt yet again
Switching Salt yet again
A few questions before I get into my latest:
Is anyone else using the Hanna ULR? I think I got a bad batch of reagents. my Phosphate is measuring 35,28, 34 and 38 over my last 4 tests (2x 9/8 and 2x 9/22). I ran some of my DI through a test (I keep it in those squirt bottles for cleaning the testing equipment) - it came back at 21. Also - how long does the glass spectral vials last?
When does the Red Sea Nitrate kit expire? 2nd test in a row where I am reading nitrates that I have never seen before. 9/8 was 2 PPM, 9/22 was also 2 PPM. It could be the filter socks causing it (never ran them either) - but I do change them out 2x per day.
Ok - in the great words of Monty Python - "Get On With It!"
Loses: Rodgers Blue Enchinata (a while ago), JeffBerg's Blue Staghorn (a while ago), Jeff Berg's Ultimate Purple Monster, Emmett's Blue Polyp Purple Tort, JeffBerg's red dragon, Vivid's Icicle Tort, Creative's Green acro, JeffBerg's Miyagi Tort, a few frags of unknowns from Mike, The montipora undata were all pulled and pitched last week.
Mostly everything is showing base tissue regression (allthough after yesterday I hope it is in the past). On the way out (unless the salt change helps): JeggBerg's Sherbert Stylo, KCSnooks Purple Stylo, JeffBerg's Ora Pearlberry, Vivid's Ultimate Purple.
The Pink (it may be a setosa) that was my first frag is still going gangbusters as is the montipora confusa, vivid rainbow montipora and Red Montipora Digitata.
I think I can no longer trust Red Sea Salts and Instant Ocean salts. While the bulk of the material is normal - there are a few unknowns that make me uncomfortable using them in my tank: The brown sludge that's left over after mixing Instant Ocean (I'm told these are clay binders used to keep the material from clumping / force some materials to stay in solution) and the unknowns of using dried red sea salt. Who knows what's left over in that stuff once they dry it out.
I've switched to ESV b-ionic for my 45 gallon water change yesterday and noticed a few promising events. The Black Spiny sea urchin that hitch hiked in on my live rock started to spawn. a few white strings comes out of it and it spews sperm into the water. Definitely cool to see.
Most of the corals too showed signs of life I haven't seen before. The red planet put out some tentacles (not polyps - these looked like mucus strings) So did the Montipora Confusa, the red digitatas. The sherbert appears to have full polyp extension today on the areas that aren't recessed.
I think things are looking up. I'm upset to have lost soo much - but I still have alot fighting and I have a few that have been with me since the beginning that are thriving. ESV may be harder to mix and more expensive - but it does appeal to me as I can identify every ingredient I'm putting into the tank.
Switching Salt yet again
A few questions before I get into my latest:
Is anyone else using the Hanna ULR? I think I got a bad batch of reagents. my Phosphate is measuring 35,28, 34 and 38 over my last 4 tests (2x 9/8 and 2x 9/22). I ran some of my DI through a test (I keep it in those squirt bottles for cleaning the testing equipment) - it came back at 21. Also - how long does the glass spectral vials last?
When does the Red Sea Nitrate kit expire? 2nd test in a row where I am reading nitrates that I have never seen before. 9/8 was 2 PPM, 9/22 was also 2 PPM. It could be the filter socks causing it (never ran them either) - but I do change them out 2x per day.
Ok - in the great words of Monty Python - "Get On With It!"
Loses: Rodgers Blue Enchinata (a while ago), JeffBerg's Blue Staghorn (a while ago), Jeff Berg's Ultimate Purple Monster, Emmett's Blue Polyp Purple Tort, JeffBerg's red dragon, Vivid's Icicle Tort, Creative's Green acro, JeffBerg's Miyagi Tort, a few frags of unknowns from Mike, The montipora undata were all pulled and pitched last week.
Mostly everything is showing base tissue regression (allthough after yesterday I hope it is in the past). On the way out (unless the salt change helps): JeggBerg's Sherbert Stylo, KCSnooks Purple Stylo, JeffBerg's Ora Pearlberry, Vivid's Ultimate Purple.
The Pink (it may be a setosa) that was my first frag is still going gangbusters as is the montipora confusa, vivid rainbow montipora and Red Montipora Digitata.
I think I can no longer trust Red Sea Salts and Instant Ocean salts. While the bulk of the material is normal - there are a few unknowns that make me uncomfortable using them in my tank: The brown sludge that's left over after mixing Instant Ocean (I'm told these are clay binders used to keep the material from clumping / force some materials to stay in solution) and the unknowns of using dried red sea salt. Who knows what's left over in that stuff once they dry it out.
I've switched to ESV b-ionic for my 45 gallon water change yesterday and noticed a few promising events. The Black Spiny sea urchin that hitch hiked in on my live rock started to spawn. a few white strings comes out of it and it spews sperm into the water. Definitely cool to see.
Most of the corals too showed signs of life I haven't seen before. The red planet put out some tentacles (not polyps - these looked like mucus strings) So did the Montipora Confusa, the red digitatas. The sherbert appears to have full polyp extension today on the areas that aren't recessed.
I think things are looking up. I'm upset to have lost soo much - but I still have alot fighting and I have a few that have been with me since the beginning that are thriving. ESV may be harder to mix and more expensive - but it does appeal to me as I can identify every ingredient I'm putting into the tank.
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