470g inwall construction thread
- Thread starter curthendrix
- Start date
Toomnymods
New member
I'm not a fan of the starboard bottom either, but "To each his own" It's his money he's spending, It's his tank to PLEASE HIM not you GSschimer or whatever your name is I think he's doing a excellent job so if you dont like it don't look,
Dont let the morons get you down
Keep Rockin'
Dont let the morons get you down
Keep Rockin'
It's great to see so many people with open minds. 
Let's not all be Lemmings. Constructive criticism should be welcomed and those offering it shouldn't be vilified. I thought the idea of people posting their plans and setups here was to get constructive criticism. Unfortunately in most cases it seems they only want to hear "Wow, that looks great!" or "Way to go!" - Those are useful posts.
BTW, I probably have reef tanks older than most of you posting here
; although I'm not sure that's something I should be smiling about.
Let's not all be Lemmings. Constructive criticism should be welcomed and those offering it shouldn't be vilified. I thought the idea of people posting their plans and setups here was to get constructive criticism. Unfortunately in most cases it seems they only want to hear "Wow, that looks great!" or "Way to go!" - Those are useful posts.
BTW, I probably have reef tanks older than most of you posting here
; although I'm not sure that's something I should be smiling about.
dgasmd
New member
It is unfortunate that most of you can't see the constructive critiscism. I too can't understand the whole starboard thing. Jerel started that almost as a joke and now it is "the way to go". The truth is that it serves no purpose whatsoever. Reflection from it is a mute point about 2 months down the road when your bottom is completely covered with permanent algae.
GSchiemer does have an excellent point with the bulkhead placement. I am guilty of that myself. You guys jumped too quickly to crucify him before asking more or considering it. It is doable without seeing any pipes. I too hate looking at plumbing and looking at powerheads, but I can tell you it is doable. I also agree with him in that I am sure he has tanks older than most of you have been in the hobby combined not to mention he has likely written more articles in the hobby than the number of fish most of us have had combined LOL...................
GSchiemer does have an excellent point with the bulkhead placement. I am guilty of that myself. You guys jumped too quickly to crucify him before asking more or considering it. It is doable without seeing any pipes. I too hate looking at plumbing and looking at powerheads, but I can tell you it is doable. I also agree with him in that I am sure he has tanks older than most of you have been in the hobby combined not to mention he has likely written more articles in the hobby than the number of fish most of us have had combined LOL...................
Detritivore
New member
im curious, how do you hide BH's? (or over-the-top pipes)...i cant think of any other way except behind rocks.
starboard does serve a purpose on glass tanks right?
starboard does serve a purpose on glass tanks right?
dgasmd
New member
Detritivore said:
Not really. I would venture to say that the number of broken tanks because of "massive LR avalanches" are probably 0 (none)!! I have a glass tank myself and had many in the past of various sizes. I can't possible even imagine how hard I would have to hit a tank for it to break. Much less it breaking because a few pieces of LR moved. It is completely unnecessary nor does it look like sand either.
It is your tank afterall, and it should make nobody happy except for you.
Last edited:
mixer911
New member
I agree with dgasmd. Bare bottom is just that "bare bottom". I have used star board in one of my tanks and it is covered with coraline in no time, so reflection = 0. I currently have 400#'s of LR on bare glass bottom and I don't think an avalanch will hurt it. You have more sides of glass to worry about than bottoms of glass.
mixer911
New member
I just hope you siliconed the starboard in place and sealed the edges around the starboard with silicone. My experirnces have been that detritus WILL build up under it. And it''s a bit** to siphon out. with the bare bottom it is a breeze to siphon out detritus and I think that is the reason for a bare bottom system, eliminate detritus buildup.
curthendrix
New member
I welcome both praise and criticism. Afterall, this forum is about ideas and thoughtful discussion. As far as the whole bb thing, I've been running a 155g reef tank with a sandbed for over 2 yrs. I simply wanted to try something different. I'm not advocating one method over another....I simply wanted to try both. Give me 6 mos or so and I can give you my opinion on the subject. I do wish people on both sides of this sandbed issue would realize that there isn't necessarily a "right" or "wrong" way to do things but simply different ways for different setups.
I looked at many large tanks before designing this one and I can't remember a large tank without a bh below the overflows....not that the lack of these tanks make GShiemer ideas wrong. I just haven't seen many working large reef tanks with flow at all levels without bh below the overflows.....I would be interested in these designs however. Can someone post some pics or threads?
Keep it up guys.......we're not quite at the "zeovit" level yet but the threads perking up! And Lugi......your last post almost brought me to tears!
I looked at many large tanks before designing this one and I can't remember a large tank without a bh below the overflows....not that the lack of these tanks make GShiemer ideas wrong. I just haven't seen many working large reef tanks with flow at all levels without bh below the overflows.....I would be interested in these designs however. Can someone post some pics or threads?
Keep it up guys.......we're not quite at the "zeovit" level yet but the threads perking up! And Lugi......your last post almost brought me to tears!
all kidding aside I think everyone is entitled to their own opinion to whats right or wrong in this hobby, everyone is going to do things the way they want in the end. I actually have seen Curts tank in person and I might have even screwed one or two bulkheads on myself? He used "only" the best plumbing fittings you can buy (bulkheads,valves,unions,ect) that it would be hard to imagine that he would have any problems down the road but I am sure that he will that is murphys law,only less than a week after a week of having his tank up and running he wakes up to find his house flooded from one of his pumps having blown a seal! who would have ever dreamed of that happening? So if a bulkhead cracks it cracks you can fix anything, somethings harder than others but its his problem and he can deal with it. I really don't think it matters at this point that he should have done it this way or that way because its finished! It would be no harded now to replumb everything than it would be to later if he ever does have a problem. So it would be my vote to leave everything the way it is and do it "right" the next time! Some people just are not lucky enough to get it right the first time. So to all of you "perfectionists" out there just be thankfull that you can't see it from your house!
Larry
P.S. Curt does this mean you want your skimmer back?
Larry
P.S. Curt does this mean you want your skimmer back?
fishman805
Premium Member
From where "I" sit curt, your tank is gorgeous...... BB, Starboard, planetboard..... Whatever!!
You done good.....
You done good.....
dgasmd
New member
lugi said:
It only has something to do with the quality of the equipment, but it is not all about that. It is all mechanical and it will fail somehow at some point. Actually, the seal failure points exactly at what gschiemer was mentioning. If the pump is below the tank and the intake bulkhead is at the bottom for example, once the seal fails the pump will drain the tank until the water comes to the level of the bulkhead. If the plumbing is through the top, the pump will only drain to the intake below the water line. Huge difference. I rather burn a $300 pump running dry than draining the tank, killing everything, and runing my house in the process. I am sure you can see what I am talking about.
lugi said:
Once things are done and leaks corrected, bulkheads don't crack. The rubber seal will degrade over time though, so it can leak. Plumbing, especially if it is exposed to the lighting (think UV here), will become brittle, can and will get clogged, etc. Let me tell you from experience that changing anything, even an intake screen, wth a full tank and grown corals is nowhere near the same. Not even remotely close. I also don't think that anyone was trying to tell him to go take it apart and do it again the "right" way. He tried to just point out the pitfalls of the system. I actually sent emails out with pictures to just about everyone I know that I considered having some common sense, considerable experience with large systems, and a little bit of know-how to give me criticism on my set up before and after I set it up. Gschiemer actually was one to point out a couple of things I did not even think about. I am glad he and others did, for now I am prepared to deal with them when and if they come up.
Again, it is your tank and a nice one. Enjoy it. I hope you get lots of trouble free years out of it. Then again, you have not even touched the surface of headaches and worries that are to come. If you have been in the hobby long enough, then you know what I am talking about :lol: :lol: :lol:
By the way, what do you intend to keep in it?
Detritivore said:
BH's can be hidden through the top Euro-bracing, or through the bottom or sides of the overflow box. This tank is inside a wall - YOU WOULDN'T SEE THE PLUMBING OVER THE TOP anyway. Most tanks that aren't inside a wall incorporate some type of canopy that covers the top and hides the plumbing.
You also don't need these monstrosities of plumbing inside a tank to get good flow throughout the entire reef structure. There's a difference between the quantity of flow and the quality of flow through a reef tank. In a tank this size you can get all the flow you'll ever need by strategically placing four returns over the top. I know it because I've done it MANY times; currently in my 500 gallon reef tank.
"Starboard" serves no purpose other than to complicate a setup. A rock falling onto the bottom glass is not going to crack it, especially if the aquarium is filled with water and especially in a 450 gallon sized aquarium, which probably has 3/4" or 1" glass on the bottom. Now holes drilled through the bottom and back of glass and acrylic tanks DO weaken it and increase the chance of leaks and breaks down the road. I've witnessed this more times than I care to remember.
And lastly, regardless of how well you plumb an aquarium, valves and unions fail over time. And if corals grow the way they should, it will be impossible to reach fittings behind and underneath the reef structure in a few years.
BTW, I'm not forcing my ideas on anyone. Take them or leave them; I don't care. Im just speaking from experience. Maybe someone else will read this and change the plans for their future reef aquarium.
Greg
fishman805 said:
If these are the kind of comments you really want when you post here, then you've succeeded.
Personally, I would think that you'd want to hear from aquarists with large acrylic reef aquariums with Starboard bottoms and holes plumbed throughout the back and bottom, and running for 5 or more years. Now they might provide useful information to you, but that doesn't seem to be what anyone wants to hear.
So in that vein, I'll just say:
Starboard, looks great, way to go!!!!!
or how about "bump!"
