$999.99

[intyme]

That's a nice Zoa..... For $1000 ummmm no

 

[organism]

There are collectors at all levels and some are apparently willing to pay high-end prices for these types of corals. It's like wine. You have some who only buy the high-end wines because they are getting something out of it, perceived or otherwise. Me, I'm happy with my good value bottle of wine that tastes high-end but doesn't come with the price.

Way off. Here's how the coral market compares to the wine market:

Someone takes a $3 bottle of wine and puts the label of a $3,000 bottle of wine on it, and either someone who likes the status symbol associated with owning a $3,000 bottle of wine without really caring much about what it actually is buys it or someone who is poorly educated in wine buys it confusing it for an "investment" and loses a crap ton of money.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

Way off. Here's how the coral market compares to the wine market:

Someone takes a $3 bottle of wine and puts the label of a $3,000 bottle of wine on it, and either someone who likes the status symbol associated with owning a $3,000 bottle of wine without really caring much about what it actually is buys it or someone who is poorly educated in wine buys it confusing it for an "investment" and loses a crap ton of money.

BINGO.....perfect analogy. Gosh I hope everyone who came into the hobby after 2005 gets this.

Mucho

 

[subversion]

My lfs is weird when it comes to zoa pricing. They're obviously aware of the "high end" market, and have their frag tanks sorted by their version of market prices. The expensive stuff that was ordered from people like the guy mentioned in the original post is all in one tank, and then there are several smaller "cheap" tanks as well. The interesting parts are 1) the main expensive tank has by far the best and most varied lighting on it out of every tank in the store and 2) you can often find frags of the same corals labeled as "unknowns" in the "cheap" tanks, I'm guessing because they look like crap out of the water no matter what and once they're under the store's standard lighting they just look like any other ordinary zoa. I'm not sure if this is done intentionally or not, but it sure is funny. And it's resulted in me getting some gorgeous "unknown" frags for $30 for about 20 polyps.

I think for the average prospective buyer, the trick is to just shop around and buy when you see something you like. Not to go "wow look at this crazy new morph, I want that, and I can get it too if I bleach the crap out of this already $500 frag!"

I'm also a reptile breeder, and I've lived through the boom of ball python (and other snake) morphs. Most of the people who invested early in "high end" ball pythons got screwed in the end by market oversaturation or by "the next cool thing" being way more awesome in the minds of the consumer than the snakes they chose to invest in. I personally find it sad that we can't just enjoy these things as they are.

I agree with SoloGarth and JohnnyHildo that the price should only reflect the difficulty in collecting and not in color. Many of the most common animals in the pet trade, corals included, are the most beautiful of their kind.

 

[that Fish Guy]

There are collectors at all levels and some are apparently willing to pay high-end prices for these types of corals. It's like wine. You have some who only buy the high-end wines because they are getting something out of it, perceived or otherwise. Me, I'm happy with my good value bottle of wine that tastes high-end but doesn't come with the price.

Excellent Point.

There is something for everybody and people collect differently.

 

[that Fish Guy]

Yes to me though there is a huge glaring difference.

Wine and other products are just that: Products. Someone spent time, money and skill creating them. Corals are not products. The only thing these "high end" sellers have is a supplier that is likely pulling more corals from the ocean (helping them keep the coral "limited edition"). They have not done anything to create the coral and yet slap their name on it and jack up the price.

Well it is Supply and Demand.

People sell all kinds of things.

Some people buy and sell Gold.

They didn't make it.

It came out of the ground.

And they buy and sell it as the market sees fit.

Are you mad at people that sell Gold too?

It is not that easy (As they say if it was easy everyone would be doing it).

Look at it this way.

1. You have to find the Coral. (This is a Skill - I know some people that will look for cheap coral, especially acros, they see potential and get them to color up. I for one do not have this skill).
2. You have to Grow the Coral (This is a Skill - Very Very few Humans know how to keep coral - You have to learn that).
3. You have to Frag it (Another Skill. I know many people that are afraid to take Coral out of the water let alone frag it).
4. You have to market it.

It is like buying and selling anything else.

Some people just want a watch so they get a Timex.
Others have to show off so they get a Rolex.

At the end of the day both are items that tell time.

But people have different needs and desires.

If something is rare it is typically viewed as more valuable hence it will command more money.

If you do not like it you do not have to buy it.

Simple as that.

 

[that Fish Guy]

+1 with SoloGarth,Like purple hornets,they were really high a few years ago and now you can't hardly give them away.Just wish people stop throwing on a name and then charge a high price.

I see people buying them for 10 to 20 a polyp at shows.

Yes, they are not $300 a Polyp like when they came out but I do not see anybody giving them away.

 

[that Fish Guy]

Photoshopping aside (=false advertising), the free market is a wonderful thing...the polyp is worth whatever some one is prepared to pay. Clearly if it doesn't sell then he over-priced it and will have to reduce to a point where someone agrees on the value and is willing to buy. If someone buys it at $1k, then perhaps he could have sold it for more ?

Personally, I wouldn't pay more than $20-30 for a single polyp, but that's just me. Others are obviously different.

Excellent Points.

Some people are willing to pay large sums of money.

I am like you and have limits.

I think the amount of money that some people pay for coral is Crazy.

Alot of people share this feeling.

But at the end of the day it is not my money so I do not care.

 

[that Fish Guy]

That is a good point. Although I still feel strongly against this practice as we deal in live animals that are best served by being spread around and thus increasing their long term survivability in captivity. In addition I think the drive to find new color morphs to sell at exorbitant prices promotes wild caught specimens over aquacultured ones.

Compare cornbread to ORA. ORA as far as I know doesn't sell any particular frag for more than $100. They continue to grow and propagate their corals. Prices can only be as high as cornbread sets them when supply is extremely limited which makes it impossible to maintain as these items naturally reproduce.

I love ORA.

They sell quality corals (I personally feel that their business motto is to sell only corals that are

1. Very Nice Looking.
2. Easy to Keep.
3. Fast Growing.

And they are not taking much from the ocean which is great.

Usually they buy some Coral and sit on it for like 5-6 years until it gets big enough to frag and sell.

The amount they sell at first is limited to (1 Per Order) so they do not run out and let the mother colony grow more).

I disagree with you though.

I see more and more people doing aquaculture.

And more and more people are being educated on aquaculture vs. mariculture.

Personally I try to always avoid Mariculture (Especially Acros and Zoanthids). The Acros always Die on me and lots of Zoanthids do to.

More and more people are understanding that Aquaculture Corals have a much better rate of survival than Mariculture Corals.

I mean who wants to buy a Coral that is going to Die on you.

Nobody likes that.

I see more and more people advertise aquaculture too.

Not too long ago when they were talking about banning certain corals Cherry Corals did a Live Sale which they Advertised as 100 Percent Aquaculture Only and I believe some of the proceeds went to Conservation Charities.

I know you do not like Cornbred but believe me he is not promoting wild caught over corals raised in aquariums.

Yes, there are people who buy $1,000 Corals.

But in all Seriousness like 99.9 Percent of Reefers would never pay that much for a Coral.

It is a tiny tiny fraction that actually do.

The rest of us reefers prefer aquaculture.

 

[that Fish Guy]

That's a nice Zoa..... For $1000 ummmm no

I agree.

 

[whitetail187]

Saw all of his stuff and thought he wouldn't be listing at prices like those if people weren't dumb enough to buy it at those prices

 

[whitetail187]

And on that note I'm about to rename some of my stuff, something like godzilla thunder king, call it rare, and when nobody can find it anywhere else I'll make myself at least 20k lol

 

[SoloGarth]

$999.99

Well it is Supply and Demand.

People sell all kinds of things.

Some people buy and sell Gold.

They didn't make it.

It came out of the ground.

And they buy and sell it as the market sees fit.

Are you mad at people that sell Gold too?

It is not that easy (As they say if it was easy everyone would be doing it).

Look at it this way.

1. You have to find the Coral. (This is a Skill - I know some people that will look for cheap coral, especially acros, they see potential and get them to color up. I for one do not have this skill).
2. You have to Grow the Coral (This is a Skill - Very Very few Humans know how to keep coral - You have to learn that).
3. You have to Frag it (Another Skill. I know many people that are afraid to take Coral out of the water let alone frag it).
4. You have to market it.

It is like buying and selling anything else.

Some people just want a watch so they get a Timex.
Others have to show off so they get a Rolex.

At the end of the day both are items that tell time.

But people have different needs and desires.

If something is rare it is typically viewed as more valuable hence it will command more money.

If you do not like it you do not have to buy it.

Simple as that.

Gold does not reproduce. It is not alive. Gold prices are consistent. You wouldn't sell particular piece of gold at a rate 100X it's average market value because you gave it a fancy name and marked it Limited Edition. Gold is mined. It is extremely rare. When sold at higher prices it has been refined and worked, again by skilled craftsmen into a new form.

I fail to see this as a valid analogy in any way. So no I am not "mad at people that sell gold".

Cornbread did not mine anything. He simply bought a frag, chopped it into tiny pieces, slapped on a new name and jacked up the price. This requires pretty limited skills IMO. If he is performing sustainable aquaculture he would not be able to sustain these exorbitant prices. There is no reason the above pictured palys are more difficult to grow than your garden variety green ones. Therefore the only added "value" is that they are "rare". No skill required to have something rare particularly when you have all the worlds oceans and diversity to pull from.

Finally timex vs Rolex. These are different in quality and workmanship. Not just different colors. Not a valid analogy.

 

[SoloGarth]

$999.99

Double post.

 

[Tweaked]

But we can all agree he's not ruining the hobby, some of his chalices are hot, and he should be able to ask whatever he wants.

His JB shroom is listed as $999.00 as well, and my good buddy just gave me two off his momma - gave. Would I pay $999, heck no, but would of considered something around $200 for one. We all have a choice with our money when it comes to the livestock. CB, JF, etc. are the exceptions and not the rule. Most noobs don't find these guys till later on in the hobby.

 

[SoloGarth]

But we can all agree he's not ruining the hobby, some of his chalices are hot, and he should be able to ask whatever he wants.



His JB shroom is listed as $999.00 as well, and my good buddy just gave me two off his momma - gave. Would I pay $999, heck no, but would of considered something around $200 for one. We all have a choice with our money when it comes to the livestock. CB, JF, etc. are the exceptions and not the rule. Most noobs don't find these guys till later on in the hobby.

Very true.

 

[Rx79394]

Like I said, read the reviews. Every person likes what they got? I picked up the Oompa Loompa polyps cause I just had to have them for our group, but I don't need to prove they came in hot, they just are. I looked else where, and could only find them from CB. Was my first order, but myself and others in the group are now considering some other items.

I was not asking because I was curious on what the coral was. Now that you mentioned Oompa Loompa, it sure is a nice coral (I remember the thread a bit ago).

Not asking to prove what you have, just wanted to see a nice coral.

 

[Tweaked]

Just found another bunch of them which I purchased for my group of friends. We grow coral out and share with each other.

 

[that Fish Guy]

Gold does not reproduce.

Not exactly like coral but it does form over time (Yes, it takes a long time).

It is not alive.

True.

Gold prices are consistent.

No it is not consistent like you say. The Value is constantly changing just like the stock market. I remember when gold was $250 an Ounce. It went up to almost $2,000 It is currently $1123.20

http://www.coinflation.com/

You wouldn't sell particular piece of gold at a rate 100X it's average market value because you gave it a fancy name and marked it Limited Edition.

True you would not sell it for 100X but people do sell it for more than the listed value. I do not know why but precious metals sell for around 30 Percent Higher than Spot Price on eBay. I can go to the Coin Store and Pay Spot, save on shipping, Save 30 Percent, and get it right away. But people do go on eBay and pay a premium for some reason.

Gold is mined. It is extremely rare.

LOL. Clearly you do not know much about Gold. It is extremely common (Same as Diamonds) If it is so Rare why does almost everyone have it in some form (Same for Diamonds)? They are still pulling it out of the ground. Debeers has a massive vault of zillions of diamonds they just ration it out to make people think they are rare. They also have great advertising and marketing (Just like Cornbred - It is all about your name). Gold is actually everywhere. You can literally go in your backyard and grab a handful of dirt and be holding gold. The problem is it will be microscopic gold and there is no way to extract the gold out and make a profit but it is still literally everywhere in every country on the planet.

Cornbread did not mine anything. He simply bought a frag, chopped it into tiny pieces, slapped on a new name and jacked up the price. This requires pretty limited skills IMO. If he is performing sustainable aquaculture he would not be able to sustain these exorbitant prices. There is no reason the above pictured palys are more difficult to grow than your garden variety green ones. Therefore the only added "value" is that they are "rare". No skill required to have something rare particularly when you have all the worlds oceans and diversity to pull from.

So he didn't mine anything so what. Someone found it for him.

Does the Jeweler go mine gold for their jewelry no somebody does it for him. They just sell it same as Cornbred.

Yes, the Coral he is selling is rare. I do not know how you do not see it. If everyone had it nobody would pay his prices. It may or may not be just as easy to grow as your garden variety green radioactive dragon eyes you are talking about. My LFS get rocks completely covered with green zoas. They buy it buy the box. I can literally tell them to get me 20,000 polyps of green zoas no problem. If I told them to get me this 999 zoa they cannot get a single one. The same is true for most any higher end morphs (Fruit Loops, Rastas, whatever. Wholesalers do not have them. The only way my LFS ever gets these is if collectors like me trade them in. So yes that zoanthid of his is extremely rare. How many of those have you seen in person - Zero. How many green zoanthids have you seen in person - probably a lot. Do you really think the ocean has equal amounts of green zoanthids and equal amounts of cornbreds 999 polyps? If that were the case my LFS would be ordering cornbred polyps by the thousands because they would sell them like hotcakes.

Finally timex vs Rolex. These are different in quality and workmanship. Not just different colors. Not a valid analogy.[/QUOTE]

OMG it is totally a valid analogy. Yes you are correct they are of different quality and workmanship. But the Rolex is much much rarer and why it is so much more expensive same as cornbreds zoanthid polyp.

 

[that Fish Guy]

But we can all agree he's not ruining the hobby, some of his chalices are hot, and he should be able to ask whatever he wants.

His JB shroom is listed as $999.00 as well, and my good buddy just gave me two off his momma - gave. Would I pay $999, heck no, but would of considered something around $200 for one. We all have a choice with our money when it comes to the livestock. CB, JF, etc. are the exceptions and not the rule. Most noobs don't find these guys till later on in the hobby.

I agree with you totally.

I mean I disagree with the part about you saying WE CAN ALL AGREE HE IS NOT RUINING THE HOBBY.

I agree he is not ruining the hobby. I would actually say he is helping the hobby with the crazy prices.

But I think most people in this thread believe he is ruining this hobby.

It is as if they think next week all zoanthids will go up in price because of Cornbred. LOL That is not going to happen.

I think there are simply a lot of haters here.

They see this nice zoanthid but either don't have the money to buy it or can't fathom spending that much money.

Look I am with you guys I think the prices are crazy and I would never pay that much even if I won the Lottery.

But I could care less.

There are literally thousands of different Zoanthids out there.

And most of them are beautiful and affordable to most everyone.

They all were crazy expensive at one time but as people bought them and grew them out and sold them to other reefers the prices have plummeted.

The same will happen to this 999 zoanthid.

Just be patient and give it time.

It will be $10 eventually.

So quit crying and quit hating Cornbred.

Seriously, Every single person in this thread would gladly sell this coral to somebody for 999 you would be crazy not too.

I think people are just jealous because he is sitting at home on permanant vacation making a fortune off coral living the good life.

We all dream to live that life but in reality very few live the dream.

There are so many problems people go through on a daily basis.

Loss of Job
Loss of Home
Divorce
Death of a Child
etc., etc.

If all you guys have to complain about is a guy who sell zoanthid polyps for 999 you guys are all extremely lucky people with nothing better than you.

To which I say good for you.

But I am sure most of you have much better things to worry about.

Why don't you quit hating and focus on what is really important in your lives.

P.S. I bet Cornbred is reading this Thread Laughing at everyone.