A Great Way to ruin a perfect wall; My 400 Gallon Project

[melev]

If your return pipe is half submerged, half above water, the air will breathe out of the pipe and the water will pour out with less bubbles.

Matter of fact, in a surge setup, the tank is usually at a lower water level so the pipe would be more out of the water and then cover up as water is surging into the tank.

 

[H20ENG]

Servo,
Heres a great deal on 2 Jandy type actuatorsfor a surge! You can probably get the valves to go with them for $20.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4471830470&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX

 

[crazyboy]

Looks great! Where did you get the tds meter?

 

[SERVO]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7591873#post7591873 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by CyclistMT
Servo, I keep following your threads becasue I'm anxious to see what you come up with. As you know, I'm trying to find a way to make the toilet flapper surge work out for me. Funny thing is, I've already been down the road of the internal CSD and have tried virtually the same thing you are.

Again, it was more a proof of concept to see if I wanted to tinker with it further. I used 1.5 inch PVC for my inside tube (since I had this size bulkhead already) and 4" for the outside. Drilled a 5 gal bucket and used an old tired Maxi Jet 1000 for the fill. Your right, calibration is key to this design. I had no problem with the siphon breaking but I couldn't get the last 1.5 gals to empty. It likely has to do with the diamater of the PVC used, the height of the assembly, the height/width of the notches or all of the above.

I decided to abandon the attempt when I decided I couldn't come up with a way to cut down on the bubbles. It probably wasn't a lot compared to a classic CSD but it was more then I was willing to contend with. My tests were all done in fresh water as well so I knew it would only get worse once salt was added. Seeing as how this type of surge must sit above the tank water line to work, you will always have air in the tube prior to the surge which will be forced out once the surge starts. I just couldn't figure a way around that and decided I would have better luck tinkering with a flapper.

Good luck with your project, I hope you can make something work to your satisfaction. I'm sure those that are mathmatically inclined could work out the proper height, width, etc necessary for a given size container fairly easily to make this work properly. As that was never my strong suit, I didn't want to try and figure it out.

This is great!!! Just what I was looking for. Unfortunately, mosts of my previous posts have kind of been a build log. There hasn't been much feed back given. I have been worried that given the history, I wouldn't get much. Thanks for the post. I am going to tinker with this thing this weekend.

H20ENG;

Thanks for the info. If the internal surge is a failure, I'll contact you for sure! I have no idea what the hell these things are! I really appreciate all of the advice you've given me with my other posts! This is affordable for me!

So would this accuator system be "bubbleless"? How would this work? Is the plumbing strait forward?

Crazyboy; The TDS meter was purchased through a group buy. If you go to dfwmas.org and do a search for chukronos and PM him he can tell you more details, he put the GB together.

 

[ICEWATER330824]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6432336#post6432336 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by SVTour
Well, since we're in the mood for confessions...your tank was the inspiration for mine. I pulled a bunch of your pics back to work out how I wanted the outside to look.

So...thanks. (But tell anyone else that and I'll deny everything )



I have yet to hit the laughing stage at my mistakes...



Can't wait to see...



Guess I should have been asking along the way...I love how you set up the lid in the front. I took a little different route though.



I agree fully...tons of knowledgeable people here. As for the cash bit...tell me about it. :rolleye1:

NOW THATS A NICE TANK!

ICEMAN!:strooper:

 

[crazdreef]

nice tank

 

[crazdreef]

nice tank

 

[H20ENG]

"So would this accuator system be "bubbleless"? How would this work? Is the plumbing strait forward?"

Yep, same as a ball valve actuator, but it matches up to a 2 or 3 way Jandy type valve (Plug style valve) Its simply the head tank with the plumbing from the bottom going through the valve to the reciveing tank. Just have the valve open when it gets full, and close the valve before it sucks air and it will be quiet and bubbless I can make you a simple controller, or walk you through it.

So this "internal" surge, its simply a CSD above the tank, correct?
You can set it up like you said, with a larger pipe over the top of a smaller pipe, or simply make a U tube inside or outside the head tank.

 

[SERVO]

H20ENG,

I'm going home to play with this tonght/tommorrow and will post pictures.

 

[Cuby2k]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7616258#post7616258 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG


Yep, same as a ball valve actuator, but it matches up to a 2 or 3 way Jandy type valve (Plug style valve) Its simply the head tank with the plumbing from the bottom going through the valve to the reciveing tank.

H20ENG, is the Jandy valve all plastic? I have only seen brass control valves although I am sure there must be others. IS Jandy the brand name or trade name? I may need to get in touch with you in the near future for some advice.

SERVO, you'd better jump on those on ebay, I think I'd like to go that well as well.

ICE, nice tank.

 

[SERVO]

I would hate to buy more "crap" that I won't use. My wife is very supportive about the hobby but gets on me about all the extra CRAP that I have lying around. This very intriguing, but I'll have to see what happens with the cheap alternative. What happens if this fails? Do you just plumb in a redundant overflow if the unit stops?
compare to
Pentair / Compool Valve Actuators Designed for use with 2-port and 3-port valves, Features maximum torque, 24VAC bi-directional motor. Operates Compool, Ortega, or Jandy Valves. Compatible w/ all 24VAC Control Systems Compool Valve Actuator CVA 24T $159.00

Price is upto $51 bucks with 20 SH



Anyway, here is the diagram for an internal CSD that I am following. I'll see how this works first. Hopefully, it is not a total disaster.

 

[H20ENG]

"is the Jandy valve all plastic?"

Yep The screws on the lid are SS, but all plastic guts.
They use an internal sweeping "plug" rather than a ball, but are great for our tanks. I used quite a few at the aquarium where I worked. I got some knockoffs (Grid Controls brand) from aquatic eco for like $30 each, and since then I've seen a ton of them on ebay. You can see pics of how I used them in my gallery (3 ways)

http://www.jandy.com/html/products/valves/index.php

BTW, I think I talked Bean Animal into these awhile back Ask him how he likes his.

Servo,
Thats still a deal!

You know you can just use a U-tube in the bucket rather than go through the trouble of mounting the outer tube over the standpipe? Its much easier that way. I used to use a st 90 in a regular 90 to make the U as small as possible, but others have had luck with 45s. Look at Sams (Platapus) tank for an example.

Cant wait to see it!

Oh! YES! Always include an emergency overflow standpipe or bulkhead just in case

 

[menard]

Ryan, your mail box full !!

 

[skywestseth]

Hey,

Sorry to kinda change the subject, Servo...., how much money per month do you spend extra on your tank, for example how much more is your water and electric each month?

-SethL.

 

[SERVO]

That’s a good question that I don't know the exact answer to, but I can generalize with a couple of caveats

First when I lived in the Midwest, H2O is dirt cheap. The water bill for 3 months was around 30 bucks. :eek1: Here it can be up to $400 dollars without a tank. I don't waste a ton of H20 on the grass so we end up paying less than our neighbors. My last water bill for one month was $130. Thats alot better than 400 bucks, but it can't come close to that great lakes ten dollar special!!!! You gotta love glaciers.


Second, the a/c is on constantly, so in general our electric bill can be really high around ranging from $180 to $325 depending on the time of the year.

Hope that helps you.

 

[melev]

Ryan, my electricity bill this month was $460, which is the highest bill I've ever had in this house. Last month was $230. ugh.

My water bill ranges $55 (winter) - $105 (summer).

 

[NexDog]

$450-$600 is normal for me. But I don't have any gas - the whole house is electricity and the air con is on alot now.

 

[kwl1763]

I can tell you when I was living in Dallas with a 135 a 92 and a 20 up it was costing me around an extra $100 or so a month then without the tanks not counting water which in all honesty is not that much. You use a lot more in the shower everyday.

$300 electric bills in the summer were norm. $300 gas bills in the winter were norm!

Much much cheaper here in Hotalanta. Just because the climate is so much milder. I have a much bigger house and my electric bill has never been over $150 and for one month my gas bill was $300 but 10 months out of the year it's like $50 or less.

 

[disbjohn]

in the summer my power bill is averaging about $250 and my water bill is about $150 most of which is due to watering the lawn. I water once a week for 30 mins each zone and that adds up to 6 hours of watering. Has anybody installed a separate irrigation meter?

 

[ReeferMonkey]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7689682#post7689682 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by disbjohn
in the summer my power bill is averaging about $250 and my water bill is about $150 most of which is due to watering the lawn. I water once a week for 30 mins each zone and that adds up to 6 hours of watering. Has anybody installed a separate irrigation meter?

In my experience, irrigation is always metered seperately from your domestic source. This is because municipalities don't take your irrigation water into account when determining your sewer bill, as irrigation does not return to the city system.