Algae Scrubber Basics

[chagovatoloco]

So I think I'm gonna change the bulbs led's on my innovative marine fuge light. I opened it up and it looked like this.

Should be a pretty simple deal to install 660nm led's and see how things grow from there.

 

[karimwassef]

the cyano buildup seems to be blocking the growth of the turf algae. Is this normal?

 

[ali1]

so whats the general consensus on the typical LED fixture to buy for both sides? i read your article that red leds has been showing better production. is there a cheapo ebay model everyone is buying?

 

[karimwassef]

So .. New scrubber, 5 weeks = 23g of algae removed today (water squeezed out). I'm feeding about 1 cube per day on average.

How is it doing compared to the expectations on a conventional scrubber?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

So I think I'm gonna change the bulbs led's on my innovative marine fuge light. I opened it up and it looked like this.

Should be a pretty simple deal to install 660nm led's and see how things grow from there.

LEDs like this can be solder-bonded underneath the LED as well using a reflow solder machine. You can put the board on a hot plate and crank it way up until the solder starts to liquefy and then you should be able to remove the LED. Then you will want to do the reverse when bonding another back down or else it won't transfer the heat.

It's possible that they did not use solder under the chip, and just used a dab of grease. In that case removing the solder on the +/- points might work, but if it doesn't, now you know why

the cyano buildup seems to be blocking the growth of the turf algae. Is this normal?

This can be a stage of growth and it can depend on a few factors. If in doubt, I would clean the screen whenever you see enough growth to hide the screen pattern, because if you can't see the mesh screen pattern, light is likely not making it to the base to get GHA started.

so whats the general consensus on the typical LED fixture to buy for both sides? i read your article that red leds has been showing better production. is there a cheapo ebay model everyone is buying?

You definitely get what you pay for. Right now the rage is the IP65 of IP66 multi-chip fixtures. you just have to be wary of how close you place these to the screen, as they can create a hot spot in the middle (in front of the multi-chip)

So .. New scrubber, 5 weeks = 23g of algae removed today (water squeezed out). I'm feeding about 1 cube per day on average.

How is it doing compared to the expectations on a conventional scrubber?

That's pretty decent for 1 cube/day on a new scrubber after 5 weeks.

For the second time, I accidentally left the timer in the "ON" position for 2 weeks (different scrubber than my personal one). The result was killer growth, 227g squeezed on a 4x6 screen

it actually was overflowing, just a trickle, and it didn't get outside of the sump

Wet (screen is toast - replacement mortar screen is soaking)

That's squeezed dry weight

squeezed

 

[karimwassef]

showoff!

why don't you have it on all the time?

 

[karimwassef]

There's still Xenia growing in one part of the screen. I'm careful to not scrape it off.

I do notice that the Xenia in the tank has slowed down it's growth significantly since I put the screen in place and started cultivating the algae.

 

[jason2459]

I just bumped mine to run 20 hours a day after last cleaning last week. It was at 16 hours I think.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

showoff!

why don't you have it on all the time?

Because I'm not there to monitor it on a daily basis. My personal scrubber, I am there, and I do run that 24/7.

Both of these units are the first version, and the side/emergency drains don't work very well when you push them hard. Next version will solve this issue, and then I might run that one 24/7

 

[karimwassef]

has anyone built a sunlight driven scrubber for comparison?

I'm thinking of a little garden greenhouse with a waterfall scrubber slanted to catch the sunlight.

or maybe a rooftop scrubber? maybe a little rough during a hailstorm though.

 

[SantaMonica]

Is it time to scrape my overflow scrubber?

I'd let it fill in more.

skimmers remove organics

Yes they do. Lots of food particles, amino acids, vitamin c, carbs, etc.

the cyano buildup seems to be blocking the growth of the turf algae. Is this normal?

Cyano is normally from weak lighting.

red leds has been showing better production. is there a cheapo ebay model everyone is buying?

Any plant-grow LED light will work. The difference is in the watts, waterproof-ness, and ease of mounting.

There's still Xenia growing in one part of the screen

If that's so, then the conditions for algae growth are way too weak. Algae should be taking over. You need lots of Light X Attachment X Air/Water Turbulence.

has anyone built a sunlight driven scrubber for comparison?

Many have.

 

[SantaMonica]

Screen sizing reminder:

Scrubbers are sized according to feeding. Nutrients "in" (feeding) must equal nutrients "out" (scrubber growth), no matter how many gallons or liters you have. So...

An example VERTICAL upflow or waterfall screen size is 3 X 4 inches = 12 square inches of screen (7.5 X 10 cm = 75 sq cm) with a total of 12 real watts (not equivalent) of fluorescent light for 18 hours a day. If all 12 watts are on one side, it is a 1-sided screen. If 6 watts are on each side, it is a 2-sided screen, but the total is still 12 watts for 18 hours a day. This screen size and wattage should be able to handle the following amounts of daily feeding:

1 frozen cube per day (2-sided screen), or
1/2 frozen cube per day (1-sided screen), or
10 pinches of flake food per day (2-sided screen), or
5 pinches of flake food per day (1-sided screen), or
10 square inches (60 sq cm) of nori per day (2-sided screen), or
5 square inches (30 sq cm) of nori per day (1-sided screen), or
0.1 dry ounce (2.8 grams) of pellet food per day (2-sided screen), or
0.05 dry ounce (1.4 grams) of pellet food per day (1-sided screen)

High-wattage technique: Double the wattage, and cut the hours in half (to 9 per day). This will get brown screens to grow green much faster. Thus the example above would be 12 watts on each side, for a total of 24 watts, but for only 9 hours per day. If growth starts to turn YELLOW, then increase the flow, or add iron, or reduce the number of hours. And since the bulbs are operating for 9 hours instead of 18, they will last 6 months instead of 3 months.

HORIZONTAL screens: Multiply the screen size by 4, and the wattage by 1 1/2. Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen [60 lph per cm], EVEN IF one sided or horizontal.

FLOATING SURFACE SCRUBBERS WITH RIBBONS: Screen size is the size of the box (Lenth X Width), and is 2-sided because the ribbons grow in 3D.

LEDs: Use half the wattage as above. 660nm (red) is best. You can mix in a little 450nm (blue) if you want.

Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas, unless floating surface, which would use gravel and strings instead.

Clean algae:

Every 7 to 21 days, or
When it's black, or
When it fills up, or
When algae lets go, or
When nutrients start to rise

 

[chagovatoloco]

That is good advice Turbo, thanks for the heads up.

 

[machote]

are solar ats efective? im planning doing a solar ats some one know were i can get info about solar ats?

 

[Gorgok]

I'm restarting an old scrubber on my tank and tried to thread some hairy stuff off my powerheads into the screen. Its lit by a bunch of LEDs, i think 12 reds and a single blue per side, i forget. The banks are in parallel off a eln-48 and i think it was set to run at 500ma before (so ~250ma per panel). Currently running 14 hours a day.

Anyhow, the stuff seems to have gone pale. Am i blasting it to oblivion or not giving it enough light?

 

[salty joe]

Anyhow, the stuff seems to have gone pale. Am i blasting it to oblivion or not giving it enough light?

I'd guess it's a lot more intensity than the algae was accustomed to.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

are solar ats efective? im planning doing a solar ats some one know were i can get info about solar ats?

Amfynn (I think that's how you spell it) had a TOTM with a very large slanted algae scrubber that was mainly sunlit. Problem is that you have a very limited time of the day where the scrubber gets very intense light.

I'm restarting an old scrubber on my tank and tried to thread some hairy stuff off my powerheads into the screen. Its lit by a bunch of LEDs, i think 12 reds and a single blue per side, i forget. The banks are in parallel off a eln-48 and i think it was set to run at 500ma before (so ~250ma per panel). Currently running 14 hours a day.

Anyhow, the stuff seems to have gone pale. Am i blasting it to oblivion or not giving it enough light?

14 hrs/day at 250mA should not be too much light, but if it goes white, then that is an indication of that exact thing happening. I never really bother to seed screens unless it is taking a piece of an old mature screen and strapping it on with a zip tie. Algae needs to anchor to the screen and this can take time, because the plastic material needs to form a layer that the algae can adhere to.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I installed my mortar screen today. Here's my last screen cleaning, using the original screen (in use for probably 2+ years, I would have to look back to see when I actually put it into use)

So it's not like that wasn't working well....

Here's the new screen

I shot a bunch of video while I was making this screen (made 4 actually) and I"ll be throwing that up on YouTube soon.

Basically, I roughed up the screen initially with my stage 1 process as usual, which is a wire brush drill attachment. This preps the screen to better accept the mortar, otherwise, it slides off really easily.

I taped off the top edge of the screen (that gets inserted into the slot) plus the next 2 rows prior to the stage 1 rough-up, then I took that off and cut the screen down to it's final size. Then, I added the tape back to protect the top edge from mortar.

I slathered on the mortar really thick, like 1/4" all over the screen, then flipped it and "massaged" it so that it pushed up through the other side, making sure to coat the entire screen.

Then I used a toothbrush and squeegeed off the bulk of the mortar, which left the holes filled in but the screen pattern showing.

After that, I held it over a garbage can and used the toothbrush to swipe the loose mortar off the screen, flipped the screen and brushed more, and repeated that about a half dozen times. The result was what you see in the pics above: the mortar and the fine particles of the mix were stuck to the screen, with only a small percentage of the holes filled in. Most of the sandy/grainy particles got brushed away.

Next, I sandwiched this between 2 pieces of wax paper, put it in a container (sterilite bin) and placed a wet hand towel on it. I let it cure for 2 days, spritzing it with water once or twice/day. I was surprised that the mortar was very flexible and not at all brittle by this point. I expected to hear crackling when I bent the screen, but it flexed right with the screen.

I placed the screen in a 5g bucket with RODI and changed that water after 4-5 days. Soaked a total of 7 days, then swished it in the bucket (not much came off) and then ran it under tap water and scrubbed it a bit with a toothbrush. I thought a good amount of mortar would come loose when I did that, but it's really stuck on there like glue, hardly any came off at all.

I put it in the scrubber, but I had to remove my false bottom because I forgot about a dimensional difference. All in all, I'm impressed with how easy this was. Way better than roughing up the screen with a saw blade!

 

[Spar]

you put way less mortar on than i did. mine basically had a thin sheet of mortar. perhaps also why it is taking me longer for algae to start growing...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

I've always been of the mindset that porosity is a firm requirement for any screen. Srusso and I had some back and forth on this when he had a flat sheet material he was using, a few people have suggested velcro or something like it, and I've looked at quite a few options.

The issue, to me, is that you need to keep the roots/base hydrated because this is what lets go first (from shading). So you need 2 things: water and light. You can keep the base hydrated, but if you block the light from one side it's like having a single-sided screen. the open-mesh pattern helps by allowing light to pass from one side to the other, so when there is a lot of shading, you get a tiny bit of light from each side, which is 2x the tiny bit of light you would get from just one side. It may not seem like much of a difference, but if that lets you grow for a few more days without the base completely dying off, in the long run that can make a difference.

Now, the mortar can essentially act as shading, this is true. The clear mesh is now coated in opaque mortar. But the light can still pass through the holes. The give and take here is that the algae should attach to the mortar much more quickly, and with much better strength, meaning, it should be able to stay attached longer due to the surface, and this makes up for the light level difference. The amount of light that was traveling through the mesh itself from one side to the other is likely offset by a larger factor due to the surface. At least, that's what makes sense to me.

@Spar I don't know for sure why you would be having a tough time getting the growth started. Pics?