algea scrubber

I guess really then the question we should be asking is what algae is the most beneficial. as red and yellow i think are harder to find than blue and white high powered. Is it really neccissary to have the ultiple color algae?

It says on the smothsonian just like the person above said. It menthions that they use CoolWhite MH. So i guess all we need to do is figure out whats missing between the two artificial lights. which i'll have to look into later this week ad im really busy with school.
 
Just spent a couple hours reading this thread. I've loved the idea of algae turf scrubbers ever since reading about Paul B's tank. For everyone running the screen type. How is the noise on those? Do you get the waterfall sound? My initial thought is any falling water will be noisy...but with the screen does that minimize it?

Sorry if this is in the thread previously....but if it is I must have missed it :)
 
It can take a little work to get the screen quiet.

Just because the screen has the bottom inch in the water doesn't make it a FATS (Flooded Algae Turf Scrubber).

As for color I suspect a "light pink" is very good. Problem is that once you bring in really bright LEDs like Crees you definitely miss the "light" aspect.
 
I'm so cool :dance:
I have a fully FATS, true ATS that is a dump bucket style. LOL I know. I know, so what? :lol:

It splashes and some people would think that it is loud. I think that it is relaxing. As I said in an earlier post, I moved it up and down until I found the "Goldilocks " point, where the balance between noise/sound and splash was best for me.

As for making it quiet, there are several things that you can do to make them make less sound. If you are going with the simple two sided cascade style, you could use two screens, back to back, like some people do. Then you could separate the bottom of the two screens by a couple of inches or so while keeping the screen together at the top. That way the water should role down the screen with less crashing and splashing.

Putting something under the bottom of the screen(s) so that it would curve, just at the end, might also help.
 
I'm so cool :dance:
I have a fully FATS, true ATS that is a dump bucket style. LOL I know. I know, so what? :lol:

It splashes and some people would think that it is loud. I think that it is relaxing. As I said in an earlier post, I moved it up and down until I found the "Goldilocks " point, where the balance between noise/sound and splash was best for me.

As for making it quiet, there are several things that you can do to make them make less sound. If you are going with the simple two sided cascade style, you could use two screens, back to back, like some people do. Then you could separate the bottom of the two screens by a couple of inches or so while keeping the screen together at the top. That way the water should role down the screen with less crashing and splashing.

Putting something under the bottom of the screen(s) so that it would curve, just at the end, might also help.

We would love to see a video of your scrubber in action! Please post :)
 
This is not for everbody. It's just what I like.
Note: I re-posted this without re-reading it.

DumpBucket.JPG


I built a box about 3" high. 6 " and 48" long. As you can see, it tapers to a sharp end. There is a weight at the other end that is made of steel and is in-cased in plastic.

As the water starts filling the tray, it pools in the lowest part (shown in dark blue). As the tray takes more water it fills to the left in this picture. At some point, the water to the left of the fulcrum weights more than what is on the right and the weight of the steel. At the point the bucket tips over and dumps it's water. The water rushes out of the tray to create natural high speed, fairly linear turbulence.

The water spills a foot, in my case, to create a splash. To prevent over-splash, I installed a tube that goes just below the water line. I also have a flat plastic plate that stops the popping bubbles from causing salt creep.

When the water finishes dumping the tray rights its self. I placed jell pads, like you might put under your wrist when you use a mouse or keyboard, under the counter weight and at the sharp end to prevent a bumping sound and this works quite well.

Unlike similar the designs in Dynamic Aquaria, I place the fulcrum on the outside of the bucket. That way, I could move it forward and back until I had it properly tuned.

When the bucket tips back up, it happens quickly and the remaining water that doesn't make its way out of the tray, reverses its path and slides back down the narrow end of the tray. Then it crashes into water at the right end of the tray and into the wall of the counter weight. This adds random erratic turbulence. While this is not advisable, I found that I could leave my scrubber unattended for weeks or even a couple of months without seeing any dye off.

This is a design that requires basic fabrication skills and access to a ban saw or something like it because you need straight clean lines. Cutting the angle does not lend itself to doing score and snap cuts which is what you normally get at Lowes. Other than that, it wasn't too hard to make. I bought 1" square bar stock and they cut it for me so that I had four pieces to stack into a 4" height x 4" length x 6" (minus that plastic) width. (Steel Weight)

I did have to mess with it for a couple of weeks to get it to work the way that I wanted it to. This is definitely not something that you can just take out of a box, plug it in and forget it. Once I tuned it, I haven't had to mess with it much at all though. It is very forgiving.



You can fine this video of the dump bucket,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoKX8AjEbI
on my website, along with another video of the splash and some articles that were publish when I made my last reef tank in the 90's. It also has some of what I am doing now. Take a look at it:
showtank1200-50.jpg

http://asaherring.com
Before you look at the video, look back at my dump bucket graphic as a review or see it on my web site. You will be able to pick out what is what a little better.
 
As for the sound, you avoid the loud splashing sound by immersing the bottom inch in water. That's the reason for the enclosed box - that does not eliminate detachment of algae / yellowing of water. That is caused by not cleaning the screen frequently enough - the light can't penetrate as deep when the algae is thicker so it loses strength, that combined with excess pods and you get detachment, which is why you clean every 7 days.

As for noise, the one I run gets noisy toward the end of the week when algae growth causes the backpressure to increase and the water squirts out of one section of the pipe - I have to replace the slot tube because I put in crosscuts when I didn't need them.
 
Ok, so i have done some basic research on the difference of the CREE XP-G coolwhite (6500K) and a 6500K CFL from ZooMed

ZooMed (scale 0.0-1.0)
CRI 98
Peaks REALLY HIGH at:
* ~430-440nm (blue-ish) (1.0)
* 550nm (green) (5.5)
* ~630nm (yellow) (4.0)


CREE XP-G 5000k-8300k (Scale 0.0-1.0)
CRI 75 <-- thats a problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_rendering_index
* 450nm (blue-ish)(1.0)
* 550nm (green)(4.3)
* 630nm (yellow)(2.0)

since the CRI of the LED is so low its ability to correctly produce the light close to natural light is pretty far off though it may appear to be correct, that is if my logic is correct. Also it does lack in certain areas of light spectrum. The closest CREE LED to what we would need to use are the Warm CREE's.

CREE warm 2600k-3700k (Scale 0.0-1.0)
CRI Warm-85-90 <-- this is really good
* 450nm (blue-ish)(7.0)
* 550nm (green)(6.5)
* 630nm (yellow)(9.5)

So in conclusion, if you get the 90 CRI CREE LED, i would assume that all you would need to do is maybe up the blue spectrum a little. Though, blue is generally to penetrate deep into water and you barely have any water to penetrate.

90 CRI http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut1032
 
the ZooMed says that its good for growing plants and algae. and since we are growing algae, i'm just going to assume it has the same light spec.
 
This is not for everbody. It's just what I like.
Note: I re-posted this without re-reading it.

Yeah, I saw this post, beautiful CAD work! Is this system already running? If so can you post a video of it? Would like to see the real thing in action. I love the idea and would love to hear it as well.

My ATS makes a VERY light surging (wave-like) sound, could never figure out why but, now I would miss it now if it ever stopped. :beachbum:
 
I believe that the links work. They do form my house. If anyone is having trouble getting to them, please let me know.

"This is not for everybody. It's just what I like." Yes, the sound is quieter when the door is closed of course but I love the splashing sound. It was anemic in the old tank but it is better in this one. (My avatar is from the CAD model of the old splash.)

Also, please excuse the wire next to the tube. I had just gotten it up and running.

http://asaherring.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoKX8AjEbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCX4opCa6hE
 
I believe that the links work. They do form my house. If anyone is having trouble getting to them, please let me know.

"This is not for everybody. It's just what I like." Yes, the sound is quieter when the door is closed of course but I love the splashing sound. It was anemic in the old tank but it is better in this one. (My avatar is from the CAD model of the old splash.)

Also, please excuse the wire next to the tube. I had just gotten it up and running.

http://asaherring.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRoKX8AjEbI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCX4opCa6hE

:eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: WOW! Simply amazing! Nice work! Your tank is amazing, looks like a true biotope! Thank you for sharing! I am now reading the published articles from your site! :spin2:
 
herring_fish,

I like your setup, surely alot of thought and planning went into it and it's nice when you see your concept implemented and working. I'm kinda curious as to why you decided to drop the water at the narrow end instead of using the full length of the tank. Is it because of bubbles?

I'm only asking because I'm thinking of whenever I setup a larger tank again that I would run acrylic or possibly a vertical scrubber that's slightly slanted at the back of the tank. This way I would design a spray bar to cover that large of an area and let the water slide down the acrylic or similar and create a subtle wavelike action. I'm only playing in 3ds rite now, haven't put a whole lot of thought into it yet. I've also used the wrong size pvc because I didn't feel like making any smaller ones, but this is what I'm thinking on a 6 footer 180g. Two return pumps on one spraybar with the acrylic and maybe some screen attacthed to the acrylic slightly slanted into the water. The spray bar would be slotted instead of the traditional holes which I aslo like better, just started using one that's slotted instead. The canopy would hide the spray bar so it's not an eyesore while allowing some light onto the acrylic which would be scraped instead of removed for cleaning. Using screens on the acrylic would allow removal for cleaning easily.
 

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Down_Spout_Long.JPG

(This tray would actually be longer.)
My next step (I often never get to my next steps) is to change the down spout so that the water goes across the tank. I haven't drawn it up yet but I want the water that is leaving the spout to go onto a tray the is like a low flat "U" shape, about 6" by 1" by 4 feet. I would cut the tray diagonally from the front corner near the spout to the opposite corner at the other end, in the back.

Hopefully, the water would come off of the tray right away at the beginning and slide down the tray falling off as the tray gets narrower and narrower. This might make a wave "like" appearance.

Making a real wave with a dump bucket is a bigger issue that I won't get into in this post but I have read up on it and it isn't easy.
 
I would try to match the parameters of this bulb as closely as possible:

http://www.aghydroponics.com/T5-2Ft-Grow-Bulbs-24W-HO-3000k-p/litbulbt5-pxfl24830.htm

It's the one that works great for me, plus $4/lamp in 8-pack. I'm not sure if the company would provide you with a spec sheet on the lamp or not.

Thanks for that link and the price is definitely right.

Have you tried the 6500 lamp? From this quote, "The 3000K and 6500K T5 lights are the proper spectrum for plant growth. The 6500K bulb is great for vegetative growth, and would be comparable to a Metal Halide. The 3000K is what you might think of as a bloom/red bulb and would be comparable to a High Pressure Sodium Bulb.", it looks like it might be better than the 3000 lamp.
 
Hopefully, the water would come off of the tray right away at the beginning and slide down the tray falling off as the tray gets narrower and narrower. This might make a wave "like" appearance.

Making a real wave with a dump bucket is a bigger issue that I won't get into in this post but I have read up on it and it isn't easy.

I grasp the concept of the water running down the trough like fixture while spilling over the edge. However, I think you would loose the surge effect from your current setup. I drew up the tilting algae trough long wise with the tank and I can see why you ran yours how did. It takes up too much space running the other way. I really don't know what you could do to spread out your surge without losing most of the effect, but now I'll be thinking of it while I'm at class, lol.

I have looked into the dump bucket methods and while I really like the surge/wave action of it, it's to bulky for me to try it out. That's why I'm considering settling for the long spraybar with scrubber idea. It wouldnt give a surge but it should cause a nice subtle rolling effect similar to the movement of a wave, coupled with some powerheads and perhaps a diy wave maker/timer setup could achieve what I'm looking for. Although, I think we decided on making our next tank an aggressive tank so we wouldn't have very many corals in there. Perhaps enough softies in the background would work. But now I'm getting off topic!
 
You are right. I will loose the surge and gain a "spread-ed" out splash.

Surge is very important for the scrubber. Good surge can increase the efficiency of a scrubber by 50% or more. Of course, a double sided scrubber makes up for it by having more surface area.

Unfortunately, a two gallon dump bucket does not offer much surge, in the main tank, unless you are right under it. One foot away there is very little motion that comes from the deep splash.

If I don't like the effect of the long tray, I may just keep the "J" shaped down spout. I would expect that the splash will be directed across and down into the tank. I might put some SPS in the path and see how they do.

Two gallons normally will not create a wave. I would need a much bigger bucket. By the way, if anyone doesn't already know it already, The splash is just for looks. It doesn't really help with anything. It is just a by product of trying to get surge inside the scrubber. You can see other scheme for getting turbulence in a scrubber in a post that I put up earlier in this thread.

Scrubber splash design is just something that I play with for fun and cosmetics.
 
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