Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides

markalot said:
That exact thing has been said here many times. Spectrum plus delivery equals identical. I have yet to see a corn cob LED array that can duplicate the spectrum of a Radium (or T5 combination) that used a big reflector to spread the light out into a tank.

The main two points of argument here are spectrum and spread IMO. LED can't do the sharp peaks, or it's not cost feasible yet, can't do the green peak (lime maybe comes close, or it's simply cost prohibitive). and I have seen some doubt that reflectors would work as well since the LED point source is rather narrow vs a charged element reflected from a reflector.

Light is light, directional is directionality, hot spots are hot spots. We have strong evidence of what works, why don't LED mfgs try and duplicate it?
Click to expand...

first LED's normally are lensed at 120-140 degrees to begin with...Not exactly a "spot" configuration..though granted the center is heavily weighted.

Why manuf. do what manuf do.. now there is some voodoo for you..

Keep in mind LED "research" is geared for "other than" corals or aquariums in general..so manuf have to make do w/ what is available..
Now Phillips, a company w/ practically ZERO restriction on what they can or can't do..being a creator of LEDS (well manuf/design gets a bit muddy here)..is anotehr story.
We shall see how that turns out soon enough..


Sad part is the fact that like 1/4 mile of this thread is dealing w/ a few specific species failures under LED..Not even a group of species.. but a few ind. ones...

Te fact that LEd early iterations were based on "deep water" spectrums and to maximise depth penetration at the least cost (due to the extreme cost of early LEDs) doesn't seemed to have helped much..Even a high K MH is more full spectrum.

some early "in head" designs included pointing the LEd's UP and using a parabolic reflector.. ;)
I think you will grasp how much cost and complexity this would entail...
 
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oreo57 said:
then you should agree w/ the fact that if I took hundreds of specifically phosphored LEDs whose photon output equaled a MH bulb and mounted them on a corn cob and stuck it in a MH reflector it would indeed be equal... ;)

none of the above is "impossible" btw... ;)

In other words it is NEVER LED's but their specturm and spacial placement..
sometimes your words don't quite sound that way. My mistake..

But:

Photons from LED or MH or the sun for that matter.. makes no difference.. Statement makes no sense as I'm understanding it..
Click to expand...

I agree. If you made a bulb/lens/reflector that offered the same spectrum and intensity and radiation pattern, it wouldn't matter if it was LED, MH, LEP, T5, VHO, or the sun.

Clear enough?
 
In terms of other industries with interesting LED potential... I think BridgeLux LED reflector/lens street lights are worth looking at.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2542098&highlight=led+street+lights+

20151102170058_96433.png


pl10841605-50w_100w_led_glass_lens_new_led_street_light_lens_for_bridgelux_vero_29.jpg


20151102165419_82233.png


http://www.sunshineopto.com/china-5...light_lens_for_bridgelux_vero_29-7291889.html

999913066_426.jpg


http://sunshineopto.en.alibaba.com/..._lens_for_Citizen_Led_lens_for_Bridgelux.html

products_118024_ea85f8e904bd7e582157166dce3f6940.jpeg


http://kitairu.net/lights-and-lighting/lighting-fixtures/118024.html

444425459_308.jpg


http://wxgtbl.en.alibaba.com/produc...w_150w_Street_Light_Glass_Lens_GT_110NA_.html

and street tunnel lights

2012102000281839.jpg


http://www.reeth-ledlens.com/index.asp?tunnel/450.html
 
And this is what a tank lit by metal halide that didn't use ANY LEDs looks like. Gee . . . sure wish some fancy LED manufacturing could make a nice reef like this

I really, really, really don't get why this became the LED thread :rolleyes: I could have sworn this forum was about keeping reefs and not LED technological advances.

Anyways, here's today's shot of an awesome metal halide reef . . .

p_005_l.jpg
 
looks great, Joe.

The lenses could make LED's as effective in distributing light as metal halides with reflectors.

I'm a hybrid user myself, but use MH for growth.

Imagine what our MH tanks would look like without reflectors.
 
JPMagyar said:
And this is what a tank lit by metal halide that didn't use ANY LEDs looks like. Gee . . . sure wish some fancy LED manufacturing could make a nice reef like this

I really, really, really don't get why this became the LED thread :rolleyes: I could have sworn this forum was about keeping reefs and not LED technological advances.

Anyways, here's today's shot of an awesome metal halide reef . . .
Click to expand...

Maybe the title had something to do with it.. ;)
Anyone Thinking of Dumping LEDS and going back to Halides
Click to expand...

Seems related..didn't say show me your MH tanks now did it..
 
Had to step away for a bit. Ca1ore, beautiful tank. My goal is to grow an immature reef as quickly as possible. While Sanjay's tank is one example.. based on what I've seen locally and the fact that Sanjay can probably utilize the tech better than most.. I'd say his example is probably a near best case example for LED capabilities with current tech. I'd be willing to bet that a someone like myself could grow SPS frags into colonies at least twice as fast with MH than with LED. My personal opinion for sure.
 
ca1ore.. twice as fast right now for me would probably about 2 microns a month instead of the 1 micron I'm currently seeing with my LEDs :D
 
Jeremy257 said:
Had to step away for a bit. Ca1ore, beautiful tank. My goal is to grow an immature reef as quickly as possible. While Sanjay's tank is one example.. based on what I've seen locally and the fact that Sanjay can probably utilize the tech better than most.. I'd say his example is probably a near best case example for LED capabilities with current tech. I'd be willing to bet that a someone like myself could grow SPS frags into colonies at least twice as fast with MH than with LED. My personal opinion for sure.
Click to expand...

Based on what I have seen the growth rate differences is negligible.
 
I think it's fair to say.. that the debate is futile.. if folks can't buy in to the fact that Sanjay Joshi's best effort with top tech LED yields less growth than consensus will not be reached :)
 
and BTW.. I'm a tech nerd. Been in IT my entire career and am an extreme gadget lover. That's why when I got back into reefing 2 years ago the emerging LED tech is what helped lure me back in.
 
Jeremy257 said:
ca1ore.. twice as fast right now for me would probably about 2 microns a month instead of the 1 micron I'm currently seeing with my LEDs :D
Click to expand...

I obviously don't know anything about your setup, but I'd be looking elsewhere for the cause if that's really the case.
 
How you feed the coral and manage nutrients and water chemistry has a much greater impact on growth than type of light if you are least hitting decent PAR. Now for shading, growth form and (somewhat) color light ime is more important - but growth = feeding.
 
ca1ore - the microns statement was a bit of a joke :)

hart24601 - Several months ago I noticed that my SPS frags' colors were fading. I then realized that Nitrates - 0 (salifert) Phosphates - 0 (Hanna) was probably a no bueno. I slowed my water changes, started feeding the fish more and started broadcasting reef chili every 2-3 days. The color slowly came back over the next several weeks. Growth picked up a little and the tank definitely started consuming a bit more alk and calc.

I do realize that I'm most certainly not getting the potential out of my current setup that a seasoned veteran could. I just think / hope that when I switch from LED to Radiums things will pick up more. The growth my friend is realizing under 400w Radiums with RB LED supp is truly amazing in comparison to what I see in my tank.
 
Jeremy257 said:
I think it's fair to say.. that the debate is futile.. if folks can't buy in to the fact that Sanjay Joshi's best effort with top tech LED yields less growth than consensus will not be reached :)
Click to expand...

who made Radions "top tech" LED's???
top tier maybe..or premium price maybe.
See I'm an equal opportunity annoy-er.

I see greens and no cyan..
IF by some odd chance there is a "crucial" hole in the LED spectrum that is rarely filled.. it is Cyan...There are few "whites" that fill that hole.. Bridgelux Vero Decors come to mind..
no LED's w/ whites should add any "green"...waste of watts..
Personal opinion, and covers any LED for anything...except yard lighting and x-mas trees I suppose..Really bugs me...

Besides it is never what "others" do or do not, but what you do.. ;)
Granted guidelines are nice..
Even Sanjay admits to the unknown in regards to spectrum..

I have no problems w/ MH per se...pick what you are comfortable with..

You do realize that his "off the hand" comment of 20% less growth is close to the percent error in a "one of" test..

you say potato I say potato..
Glass half full or half empty???
I suspect many would die for his 80%...

Matter of the bar you set...and why these discussions are endless...

Unless one type of lighting cannot grow anything.. well then you might reach a consensus...but even then it would be difficult.. ;)
 
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