DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
Been running mine since nov 2013. LOVE IT! No fluctuations in salinity.
automatic water change
- Thread starter DRThompson
- Start date
Been running mine since nov 2013. LOVE IT! No fluctuations in salinity.
AquamanE
Active member
Chris- I will, probably the weekend though, well see how my work schedule goes this week.
Truth is i dont expect me changing anything. My parameters are all very stable including salinity which would be off. Thats why imm asking you how much volume difference we are talking about..
Lets think about this, correct me if im wrong:
If im taking too much water out (more water dumped that being replenished with fresh saltwater), my ATO would be using more water than usual, and my SG would drop.
If im adding too much water (more water than is being dumped (dirty)), then my sump would higher, my ATO turn on less, and my SG would go up.
Neither of the above scenarios would happen right away but over a few months it would be noticeable--Its NOT.
AquamanE
Active member
Gayle-I agree with the Doctor except i got my tubing in white because i ran the line along my white baseboard. Its bearly noticable, even with the other white wire that goes to the float switch then to apex.
Chris155hp
Member
Yea you are correct. My sump changes about 2-3 inches just after 15 min. So imagine the difference in just a few weeks. Salinity would be way off. I contacted lockwell and stenner and they will get back to me
LOL, war with a vendor. This is really a Stenner and eBay dual head thread... just saying. Few like Mr.X will stand along side with Litermeter and I almost went that route as well.
Stenner pumps have a good reputation, the other day Chris showed me a picture of his parents 15 yr old pump. Still looked new with a little bit of dusting off.
Stenner pumps have a good reputation, the other day Chris showed me a picture of his parents 15 yr old pump. Still looked new with a little bit of dusting off.
AquamanE
Active member
I think the Litermeter pro's and con's where discussed on this thread by Dr. Thompson very well on the first page. I also covered it during my speech to the club last month, and 4 years ago when i first discussed water change systems with the club.
Liter meter is definitely a good, and viable option. While I have never tested it, i have seen many that have had success with it.
Reason I went with Stenner was because I have full control of it via my Apex, and it was cheaper by the time I had 2 heads. I will never use 150 commands in one day, so thats not needed. As a matter of fact i do my 2.5 water changes in 1.6 hours in one shot. I might split up in future but is will be maybe two 1.25G water changes per day. But reliability of both can be expected. Liter meter has been around for many years in the aquarium hobby, with a good reputation. Stenner has also been around for many years, just in a different industry, and is also know to have a good longevity as they are industrial type pumps used for chemicals.
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I don't think anybody can really debate the quality of a litremeter setup, but it's also not a good comparison in this thread.
Will these pumps last 25-30 years? Most definitely, the plastic housing has no wearing against it at all (and this isn't those little plastic dosing pumps on ebay when we're referencing the cole palmer pumps). My roller assembly is stainless steel, through a lubricated gear set. If these were by any means cheap, they wouldn't be in the medical, pharmaceutical and industrial applications that they are.
The liter meter controller either does it or it's standalone pumps off an apex right? So you run 2 pumps and lose your safety calibration. Again I prefer a dual head option (hint hint, maybe you guys should make something along those lines
). I lose some of the remote controllability and safety and alert features if I let the litermeter 3 do it as I don't see anywhere for it to have switch inputs or even a set of contacts to alert of a system problem.
That said, I will most definitely be looking into your standalone units for 2 part dosing, but I will always prefer a dual head industrial pump for my water change
Will these pumps last 25-30 years? Most definitely, the plastic housing has no wearing against it at all (and this isn't those little plastic dosing pumps on ebay when we're referencing the cole palmer pumps). My roller assembly is stainless steel, through a lubricated gear set. If these were by any means cheap, they wouldn't be in the medical, pharmaceutical and industrial applications that they are.
The liter meter controller either does it or it's standalone pumps off an apex right? So you run 2 pumps and lose your safety calibration. Again I prefer a dual head option (hint hint, maybe you guys should make something along those lines
). I lose some of the remote controllability and safety and alert features if I let the litermeter 3 do it as I don't see anywhere for it to have switch inputs or even a set of contacts to alert of a system problem. That said, I will most definitely be looking into your standalone units for 2 part dosing, but I will always prefer a dual head industrial pump for my water change
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Pittman/Ametek motors are very inexpensive to replace ($20, new old stock) and last forever anyway as they are industrial grade (noisy, but run forever) Cole-Parmer pump heads also are made to last a lifetime and used in medical equipment (new they cost as much as a liter meter just for the pump head) so you know their quality is top notch. Their customer service is also exceptional and setup is completely serviceable for individual replacement parts whether you bought it used or new.
I couldn't be happier, I love to DIY and since all components are inexpensive in terms of replacement parts and my initial investment, I essentially have a self provided lifetime warranty :lolspin:
My setup also does not change the water level and actually runs three pump heads changing water out of my display into the frag tank, then to the drain from the frag tank, while replacing the exact same volume back to my display.
By no means am I knocking liter meter as an option though, but this thread started about dual head peristaltic pumps.......
Pittman/Ametek motors are very inexpensive to replace ($20, new old stock) and last forever anyway as they are industrial grade (noisy, but run forever) Cole-Parmer pump heads also are made to last a lifetime and used in medical equipment (new they cost as much as a liter meter just for the pump head) so you know their quality is top notch. Their customer service is also exceptional and setup is completely serviceable for individual replacement parts whether you bought it used or new.
I couldn't be happier, I love to DIY and since all components are inexpensive in terms of replacement parts and my initial investment, I essentially have a self provided lifetime warranty :lolspin:
My setup also does not change the water level and actually runs three pump heads changing water out of my display into the frag tank, then to the drain from the frag tank, while replacing the exact same volume back to my display.
By no means am I knocking liter meter as an option though, but this thread started about dual head peristaltic pumps.......
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AquamanE
Active member
Ok so as requested, I finally had a chance to actually measure the output of both pumps at the same time. I was surprised to find a difference. I ran this experiment over 10 minutes, using 2 one liter bottles, and then ,measuring the out put of each side with a 250ml beaker (or whatever they are called).
The bottle on the left is the water being drained. The bottle on the right is the fresh SW going into the tank.
After 10 minutes the bottle on the left received 1,158 ml's, the bottle on the right received 1,094 mls. A difference of 64ml per 10 minutes= 384 mls per hour. (576 ml per 1.5 hours)
So am I worried??, not really. Knowing that a gallon has 3785 mls, I came up with the following conclusion.
I run the pump for 1.5 hours per day. A difference of 576 mls per day is a fraction of a gallon, 0.15 to be exact. In a volume of approx 250 gallons this is equivalent to approx 0.06% of the total volume of my tank. IMHO insignificant. What this does mean is that since i am taking out more water than is coming in by 576 mls, my ATO is dumping 576mls more per day than it would if it was just evaprating water it would be replacing. Again IMHO insignificant. All it means is that long term i have to watch my SG, which i do anyways, and again over the period of 3 months or so that i have been doing this have not seen it budge. It also means i have to watch and adjust my ALK/CA since its Kalk water going in. Again something I do anyways, and have not had to adjust anymore than usual since doing this.
BTW this experiment also confirmed the exchange rate of 2.6-2.7 gallons per 1.5 hours as i was hoping since this gives me a 1% gallon water change per day, my goal. (1,158mls per 10 minutes= 10,422mls in 1.5 hours= 2.75 gallons)
Math gurus, feel free to check my math, hopefully im not that far off
Hope this helps...:wave:
LOL, don't try to bail anyone out. J/K
So me and Chris were correct about the difference!
Me/Chris: 1
Eddie: 0
I still think it's a roller issue. According to Chris, the inside and outside rollers are different. One is white while the other one is black. When we swap them around, they head that was putting out more was doing less.
Best idea that I've seen so far to combat this would be a needle valve on the intake side of whatever is pumping more but those needle valves are $$$.
Other thoughts, on a larger system salinity will not move as much as a smaller tank. So keep on testing the water, I don't trust those salinity probes just yet. If anyone is running one, input please. I never have but have helped in calibrating one and it was reading crazy off.
So me and Chris were correct about the difference!
Me/Chris: 1
Eddie: 0
I still think it's a roller issue. According to Chris, the inside and outside rollers are different. One is white while the other one is black. When we swap them around, they head that was putting out more was doing less.
Best idea that I've seen so far to combat this would be a needle valve on the intake side of whatever is pumping more but those needle valves are $$$.
Other thoughts, on a larger system salinity will not move as much as a smaller tank. So keep on testing the water, I don't trust those salinity probes just yet. If anyone is running one, input please. I never have but have helped in calibrating one and it was reading crazy off.
@ aquamanE
that's only a 5.5% difference, which is not to bad. I couldn't find the tolerance on pumping rate on the stenner site, but you might check that out with them to see what the normal tolerance is.
On my Cole-Parmer heads the tolerance is +/- 3% I have two heads on my three head pump that pump almost exactly the same amount and one that pumps a bit faster, so I just use that faster head to supply new saltwater to my display to help offset what is removed by the skimmer. I figured it out a while back and on my settup the faster head pumps one extra gallon for every 24 gallons that are changed out. so that will pretty closely keep up with what my skimmer removes when I'm doing a 1 gallon per day change.
@rps3
needle valves under $15 that's pretty cheap considering the total system cost:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24525&catid=956&clickid=searchresults
I've used these for skimmer air intake adjustments, they are very accurate.
that's only a 5.5% difference, which is not to bad. I couldn't find the tolerance on pumping rate on the stenner site, but you might check that out with them to see what the normal tolerance is.
On my Cole-Parmer heads the tolerance is +/- 3% I have two heads on my three head pump that pump almost exactly the same amount and one that pumps a bit faster, so I just use that faster head to supply new saltwater to my display to help offset what is removed by the skimmer. I figured it out a while back and on my settup the faster head pumps one extra gallon for every 24 gallons that are changed out. so that will pretty closely keep up with what my skimmer removes when I'm doing a 1 gallon per day change.
@rps3
needle valves under $15 that's pretty cheap considering the total system cost:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=24525&catid=956&clickid=searchresults
I've used these for skimmer air intake adjustments, they are very accurate.
DRThompson
2018 FMAS President
I have a conductivity probe also; cant say i'm happy with it. I've noticed that I get more consistant readings if it is in a high flow area (between the baffles) verses just sitting in the return chamber of my sump.
