automatic water change

[AquamanE]

Also, Jeremy that link you put up is... crap. That's just a pump with an AC adaptor, you still need a timer or whatever. At $120, sale price, I would rather go with an eBay set up or spend the money on a Stenner. That's a single channel pump with no way of calibrating in correlation with another head. How do we combine two of them and get equal rate without the fancy controller that the Litermeter is, which "calibrates" the heads. Or am I missing something?

Play nice young man. Marvin asked for options and education. Jeremy is complying.

You can disagree and comment but please lets keep it respectful. :wavehand:

 

[rps3]

Correction on my previous comment. It's not crap, but a pump. As I've pointed out, anything mechanical can and will break down over time.

Stenner pumps from what I've seen have lasted 10+ years on the same tube.

 

[AquamanE]

any opinions on which is better? LM3 vs Stenner, without concern of $.

IMO, the Stenner fits my needs better. sound and size doesn't matter because it's going in the garage. its seems one pump with 2 heads(Stenner) make more sense than 2 pumps(LM3). any thoughts?

CHSUB- thats the best thing that has come about in this thread. Many options for different people, and different tank set ups.

Main goal is to do AWC's with what best works for you. :hammer:

 

[nivram]

automatic water change

any opinions on which is better? LM3 vs Stenner, without concern of $.



IMO, the Stenner fits my needs better. sound and size doesn't matter because it's going in the garage. its seems one pump with 2 heads(Stenner) make more sense than 2 pumps(LM3). any thoughts?

Not sure if you saw Dave's pros and cons.

I checked out the liter meter, masterflex pumps and Stenner pumps for this project. Here's My thoughts on them

LiterMeter PRO's:

easiest to setup​

designed for auto water changes​

Best peristaltic pump in the industry (aquarium)​

excellent customer service - read comments, blogs, recommendations from friends, Reef Central forum messages​

Quietest of the 3 choices​

LiterMeter Cons:
-more expensive new, though readily avail used at lower prices
-not apex compatible
-require periodic calibration for accuracy
-not designed for continuous use

Masterflex/Cole parmer PRO's

Would work with my apex​

Would get the job done​

Lab grade peristaltic pump! Top quality​

Rated for continuous duty​

My number 1 choice, money aside​

no calibration needed, very accurate, consistant dosing​

Masterflex/Cole Parmer Cons:
-The pumps that are available in the used market are OLD! Hard to find one that isnt at least 10 years old
-NO parts avail to repair the pump other than tubing and replacement heads
-Expensive! These pumps sell for thousands new, even the used ones can get to the $500 range for a double head variable speed
-Even the replacement tubing is expensive!
-noisy pumps

Stenner Pump PRO's:

Would work with my apex​

Price​

Rated for Continuous duty​

Industrial pump, very robust, used for irrigation, pools and other water treatment applications​

No calibration - Accurate, consistent dosing​

Made in USA - ALL parts are completely replaceable!​

Stenner Pump Cons:
-LOUD, probably the loudest of the 3 pumps
-bulky, heavy pump. would be hard to mount/use in tight space
-Hard to find a used pump

The Stenner pumps work best for my application. Apex compatibility was paramount, I'm an apex junky All three pumps would get the job done and do what I wanted though...

 

[SpectraPure]

Hello,

How is everything doing today? I have a question. How are you all calibrating your palmer or stenner pumps?

 

[rps3]

Hey Stenner guys, mounting it sideways... Would that be a problem? Realized yesterday that the instructions said mount the heads downwards.

We are measuring via scientific instruments. Red beer cups and maybe one of those nifty cylinders. We're just looking for something remotely close, not exact. I'd be happy with that and will achieve it.

 

[SpectraPure]

rps3,

I believe you can mount it sideways. At least that's what they say you can do.

 

[SpectraPure]

graduated cylinders

graduated cylinders

Hey Stenner guys, mounting it sideways... Would that be a problem? Realized yesterday that the instructions said mount the heads downwards.

We are measuring via scientific instruments. Red beer cups and maybe one of those nifty cylinders. We're just looking for something remotely close, not exact. I'd be happy with that and will achieve it.

I would use the cylinder and a stop-watch to measure the flow. JMO

 

[DRThompson]

Hey Stenner guys, mounting it sideways... Would that be a problem? Realized yesterday that the instructions said mount the heads downwards.

We are measuring via scientific instruments. Red beer cups and maybe one of those nifty cylinders. We're just looking for something remotely close, not exact. I'd be happy with that and will achieve it.

Sideways is fine, they want you to mount it pointing down so if the tubing breaks/leaks/etc it won't damage the pump. It doesn't effect the performance to put it sideways. My ATO single head stenner is mounted sideways and it works fine. I would still loop the tubing down so it would drip down the hose line away from the motor if there was ever a leak.

 

[rps3]

Cool, just have to secure it more so it doesn't wobble out on me. Thanks for the input.


Jeremy, I measure by both heads running and then comparing them visually. Next thing to so it weigh it in to be more specific.

 

[zachts]

Hello,

How is everything doing today? I have a question. How are you all calibrating your palmer or stenner pumps?

Cole-Parmer L/S user Pittman Ametek gear motor:

Specs are available from the manufactureres to allow you to calculate exact flow rate based on RPM of the pump head and the particular tubing you are using.........

I also used the graduated cylindar method (my method and results are posted in the thread in more than one place) with a lamp timer to determine that the flow rate is linear when the particular motor I have is run at less than 100% duty cylce. I can very accurately calculate a "dose" now if I wanted, but really for water change it is just about being about the same for each head.

Total volume doesn't mater so much for AWC just that both or in my case all three heads are pumping nearly the same amount. Calibration of the dose amount is really only critical for dosing supplements. Which I could do very accurately with my setup. Plus or minus a gallon or so a week of total water changed (assuming nearly the same water in and out) does not mater.

Stenner has similar information available.

 

[ReefKeeper64]

Speaking from experience I can share some info about the Masterflex cole palmer automated water changer system as I have one. Two actually but I only use one of them.

If you come across one for a good price, they are a gem. I paid $350 for two of them used.

After I received them both, I soon realized that multiple heads can be run on a single pump to get a 100% accurate exchange of water both in and out using just one pump. That is how I run it and it works great. All you need are 4 long bolts, which cole palmer sells, and then both heads always run at the exact same speed together on one pump.

I run the one pump on a timer for 15 minutes a day and I dial the RPMs in so I end up with a 20% water change in a month. Just a little gets changed out each day and it is incredibly convenient, accurate, and the tubing lasts at least 6 months so its low maintenance.

Pros for water changers (forgive me if these are mentioned already)
Alkalinity stays really stable doing water changes a little a day like this but that isn't anything the other auto water changes aren't doing. I just wanted to mention it. Also, you don't have to keep you new water at proper temperature because so little gets added each day that you won't impact your display tank temp.

I didn't notice anyone mentioning if masterflex pumps are loud but I consider mine to be loud and they are in very good condition. In my case, I have a fish room so it isn't an issue but if you are concerned about noise and you will run this in your living room then beware of this. Perhaps use the timer to only run it for 15 minutes in the middle of the night.

They use a decent amount of electricity because they are designed for accuracy so the motors run fast but everything is geared down to pump slow. I had to experiment with the tubing sizes to get what works best.

In all, I would say that the spectapure route (or similar) is the better for most aquariums. If I were to do this all over, I would just buy the spectapure. I would have spent less time fiddling around to get the masterflex working the way I wanted it. Spectapure setups are easier to get ahold of, have that warranty mentioned and give you good reliable results from what I can tell from others. It would be much quieter, have the right tubing, etc. You might spend a hundred bucks more up front (I am guesstimating here) but you will have everything you need and time is money. I hope this helps.

Here is a picture of my automatic water changer setup.

 

[CHSUB]

Not sure if you saw Dave's pros and cons.

thanks, great write-up. after researching the LM3 and Stenner pumps, i went with the Stenner. i had to make some changes because the Stenner pump can only draw water about 20 feet. i have to keep my water outside, 20 feet away from the tank. not ideal, but ok? i ordered the pump and a 300 gallon water holder. hope to have it all working this weekend.

 

[Sacohen]

Very Nice write up ReefKeeper64.

I have the MasterFlex/Cole Palmer setup too.
I don't actually have it running yet, but everything is coming together (slowly).

As ReefKeeper64 said 2 heads on 1 pump. Ran at the same speed and should remove and replace the same amount of water.

There have been reports that they differ a bit and this is due to the fact that one tub may be tighter then the other.

Rps3 has determined that with these pumps you can go thru a highly technical calibration process of just pulling on the tube that is slower than the other to release the strain on it a bit until they even out.

I think this is because no one (that I know of) is using the professional tool to replace the tubing. We are just opening in up and slipping the new tub in between the rollers and the pump housing.

The pumps are loud, but like others using them, I'm putting mine in the garage so it's not a problem.

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[rps3]

Steve is such a nice guy, maybe I'm too blunt. LOL

 

[ReefKeeper64]

Update: The Masterflex actually takes 2 extended bolts to run 2 pump heads off of just one pump. I mistakenly said 4 bolts in my last post about it.

 

[Sacohen]

Mine uses 4 extended bolts.
You can get them from Materflex of Cole Palmer,but I use 8-32 All thread rod from HD and wingnuts.

 

[flamron]

Same here Sacohen - HD and all thread and wing nuts for me as well. I'm finally filling the tank, so once that is done I'll focus on getting the AWC system up and running.

 

[lnevo]

So, inch by inch getting closer...controller is programmed. The big delay is finding time to code and my ambitious effort to have the controller helping to mix the saltwater for me

Anyway, float switches are installed in the SW bin, I've got my wifi working on the controller. All the timings are in place and i can modify remotely so nothing is hard coded. This will allow me to run some controlled tests on the Ametek pump for specific timed runs.

Definitely making some progress...now with Passover dinner on Monday the weekend is going to be hectic as well so we'll see what gets done. At least I took Tuesday off.

I need to really start moving, since getting the controller in order, I haven't mixed any saltwater and I'm approaching a month with no WC!!! I'll probably try calibrating the salinity probe and try mixing up some water tonight though.

 

[DRThompson]

It's been 5 days; Decided to update stats and test salinity.
I posted a salinity reading of 1.025 on april 1st.


Salinity today April 6th at 1.025 on my Milwaukee digital tester. Maybe my drift isnt so bad; I will test again at about 10 days.

If anyone is following this I thought I should take a reading today April 12th. Salinity at 1.026; starting to think there is no drift in salinity.

Today Marvin and Matt are coming over to help me clean up my tank; it's very overgrown. Also my anemone's keep splitting and I need to get rid of some. I'll be doing a large water change as part of this so I won't be able to monitor the salinity drift(if I even have one)