blue tangs in very small tanks... what compells people to do so...

[Reefir]

I have read this whole thread and I am that guy who saw Nemo the movie and wanted to recreate it for my son . I bought a 90 gallon 4 foot and the hippo and a pair of clowns , now i am starting to worry , I have no plans on upgrading soon . but also mentioned before I am not going to give it to an LFS , and I cant afford to bring it on a cruise and bring it back to its home again , a fish store should be held accountable for not expressing the need for the right accomidations for any animal , someone should police the industry a little , I always see the fresh water Red Tail Catfish for sale for around 20 bucks and there should be a disclosure and a paper you sign just so you understand what your purchasing , just for the noob that liked the idea and has done no reserch ( an impulse buy ) just a quick disclosure and that might just open the eyes of the noob and maybe puchase something a little more managable . The Red tail will grow 7-10 FEET and 100+lbs , the sale should be illegal , It makes me want to buy them and ship them back to the water they come from , It also drives me nuts to see the fighting fish for sale in cups of water without a disclosure because a simple diclosure would just inform the customer that these fish can not live in TAP water, and you need to declorinate your water . 80% of these fish all die from clorine water , is that fair . sorry im off topic but you get my concern , A simple disclosure and signature would sae 1/2 of all deaths related to misinformation or noob mistakes . anyone agree?

 

[Pallobi]

This is a good thread and drives the message to newcomers that lfs can lead you in the wrong direction and research is key before stepping foot in there. Impulse decisions are usually where people end up with problems. From what I see, this guy is trying to help others out. We all make mistakes from time to time and can learn from them and help out one another. Keep doing what your doing! :wave:

i am trying to help others in the prevention of making some of the mistakes, i, and other have admittingly made... i feel like having a blue tang in a 120 was a mistake on my part, let alone a 3' 45g tank...

i am condscending and hypocritical to some, and trying to do a good thing to many others, especially the ones who have made the same mistakes as i... this is really all... i jus wish a few more of these post would be a little more productive towards the topic... not jus calling me out time after time... or so it seems lol... i am not the one saying i have a blue in a very small tank and have absolutly no intention on doing what is right for the animal (to the best of one's ability) and NOT sticking a fish that needs certian requirements in a small box unsuited for their needs...

please, feel free to argue both sides, but dont if you cant at least be constructive to one side or the other... this is a discussion, not a blame all

 

[Pallobi]

it is the hobbyist responsibility to "police" their own habit and hobby... no one is gonna play the LFS policing role... it is everyone's own duty to take such steps when caring for tropical, exotic, or any animal for that matter, and myself and others area here to help spread a helpful word

 

[Pallobi]

Could not resist. I have to break my promise not to post again in this thread.

+1 on the above statement. Although I would say that it was not his initial intention. I learned my lesson now, 5 points infractions and a locked account, and being labeled as the "bad guy". However I would pointed out that if not for me and my postings, this thread will not reach the 300+ post counts.

please, if your gonna post, try to be constructive, you are simply using it as a way to express that you feel as though you were wronged, and it is not cool, regardless of who's "side" your on... this is a discussion, not a feel bad for me debate...

 

[Pallobi]

I have read this whole thread and I am that guy who saw Nemo the movie and wanted to recreate it for my son . I bought a 90 gallon 4 foot and the hippo and a pair of clowns , now i am starting to worry , I have no plans on upgrading soon . but also mentioned before I am not going to give it to an LFS , and I cant afford to bring it on a cruise and bring it back to its home again , a fish store should be held accountable for not expressing the need for the right accomidations for any animal , someone should police the industry a little , I always see the fresh water Red Tail Catfish for sale for around 20 bucks and there should be a disclosure and a paper you sign just so you understand what your purchasing , just for the noob that liked the idea and has done no reserch ( an impulse buy ) just a quick disclosure and that might just open the eyes of the noob and maybe puchase something a little more managable . The Red tail will grow 7-10 FEET and 100+lbs , the sale should be illegal , It makes me want to buy them and ship them back to the water they come from , It also drives me nuts to see the fighting fish for sale in cups of water without a disclosure because a simple diclosure would just inform the customer that these fish can not live in TAP water, and you need to declorinate your water . 80% of these fish all die from clorine water , is that fair . sorry im off topic but you get my concern , A simple disclosure and signature would sae 1/2 of all deaths related to misinformation or noob mistakes . anyone agree?

i agree with you to an ectent, but as hobbyist we do not sign waivers or disclaimers... it is OUR own responsibility to do what is right, and do it with the help and guidance of those who did before us... not to be so blind about it all and jus not care...

 

[Reefir]

agreed on policing , this thread may just have opened the eyes of many who had no intentions on a blue tang but now know and understand what alot of us were unaware of prior to this thread , I am glad I read this and now know in the future that there are many beautiful species to decide from and the blue tang should be left to those with the proper accomidations , Thanks for the lesson , and I will be looking for a good home for my hippo before he outgrows my 90 g .

 

[GQuinn]

Honestly, these type of threads irritate me to no end. If tangs cover several miles in a relatively short time, what makes anyone think they are "happy" in a 6', 8' or even 10' tank? By way of comparison very few organisms should be kept in a tank the average hobbyist can fit in their home. Lucky for us, fish are reflexive in nature and lack the ability to contemplate happiness, sadness, etc. Therefore, if they have sufficient room to move, adequate food and clean water, suffice to say, they are content. FWIW, I kept a few tangs for over a decade in a 75g, and not one of them lodged a formal complaint.

Does that mean we shouldn't offer them the biggest tanks we can...absolutely not. However, I wouldn't condemn anyone for keeping them in a smaller tank. If the fish is healthy, then so be it.

Well said serpentman. I couldn't agree more.

 

[wmatt140]

my take

my take

While there are many reasons I think the majority of people keeping these fish in small tanks are casual hobbiest who don't know any better. These aren't the type of people who go on the internet to research their hobby. They may have had fresh water tanks as kids where you can cram a buch of fish in a small area. They go to pet stores and see these fish in their small display tanks and think they will be fine in similar size tanks at their house.

Actually I pretty much described myself back in 1990 when I got my first saltwater tank (no internet back then). After having freshwater 5-10 gallon tanks as a kid, I thought my 55 galllon saltwater tank was huge. I cycled it with damsels, per the LFS, and proceded to load it with fish. I had multiple tangs and Angels as well as other fish. Almost all came from the same LFS who were familar with me and my tank. Other than compatability discussions, I had no idea I was overstocking or putting fish in too small of a tank.

Nowadays I rarely do anything without researching it on the internet. Many however, rely on the "experts" at the LFS who rarely say no.

 

[twinypalm]

please, if your gonna post, try to be constructive, you are simply using it as a way to express that you feel as though you were wronged, and it is not cool, regardless of who's "side" your on... this is a discussion, not a feel bad for me debate...

Please. If anything I think I contribute the most in this thread even though my point of view is not very popular here. I think I learn a lot from this thread: what does cyber bully means. No sarcasm intended.

 

[Nanook]

Please. If anything I think I contribute the most in this thread even though my point of view is not very popular here. I think I learn a lot from this thread: what does cyber bully means. No sarcasm intended.

Cya twinypalm:wavehand: You have been given a timeout.

 

[mgurule]

i think we have all made that mistake at one time or another and i do think it is very important to do research but what done was done and as long as the owner is doing all that he can to keep the fish comfortable or finding a new home is what is important. i have always been lucky to have the owner of the store i shop at always lets me exchange for something that will fit. he gets to sell it for more cause its more beautiful and healthy and i get new stuff. good luck to you and i dont think you have done anything wrong.

 

[BrianD]

Although I agree with your facts, imo, your post comes off accusatory & condescending. It's your delivery - instead of making this an educational discussion, your almost baiting the uneducated noobs to come forward so you or the others on this thread can rip 'em a new one. Just my opinion of course ...

What useful information did this post offer?

 

[BrianD]

Honestly, these type of threads irritate me to no end. If tangs cover several miles in a relatively short time, what makes anyone think they are "happy" in a 6', 8' or even 10' tank? By way of comparison very few organisms should be kept in a tank the average hobbyist can fit in their home. Lucky for us, fish are reflexive in nature and lack the ability to contemplate happiness, sadness, etc. Therefore, if they have sufficient room to move, adequate food and clean water, suffice to say, they are content. FWIW, I kept a few tangs for over a decade in a 75g, and not one of them lodged a formal complaint.

Does that mean we shouldn't offer them the biggest tanks we can...absolutely not. However, I wouldn't condemn anyone for keeping them in a smaller tank. If the fish is healthy, then so be it.

If an informational discussion irritates you, I think you don't understand the purpose of sharing opinions on a discussion board.

As for your comments about "sufficient", that is pretty much the crux of the discussion.

 

[Pallobi]

once again, we are trying to create awareness through discussion and educated opinions and info from the experienced...

with a number of peeps standing on the side of, and not quoting anyone directly, "there is no problem with a blue tang in a small tank", well that attitude saddens me... i feel for the animals i love... they are not a decoration or a peice of home decor or something "your wife or kid likes so you got them", they are a beautiful living, breathing, and swimming creature... that deserves educated care, and a little respect in regards to their captive life and life in general

 

[serpentman]

Although I agree that an informational discussion is valid and beneficial, don't you think this particular subject has been rather beat to death on here? Are threads like this to truly to learn and understand why people keep tangs in small tanks, or simply a reason to start a debate? We've all seen the age old tang debate argued for years with absolutely no resolve. Honestly, I think we'll all sooner agree on politics before we reach a general consensus on the proper tank size for tangs and the like.

Although I agree that people shouldn't be nonchalant when caring for marine creatures, I don't think anyone should pass judgment. In almost 2 decades in this hobby, I've seen several hard and fast "rules" broken. In fact, I remember a day when it was taboo to keep fish in a reef tank at all....

 

[Kieth71]

I agree that the hobbyist is responsible however with the amount of blue tangs i see in every fish store and most of them tiny i would bet most are not going to what i would consider proper sized tanks.Where is the industrys efforts to curtail this?They are now captivly raised in large numbers so i am guessing that does not cross any of the people supplying the stock.To Pallobi as a fellow patriots fan -GO PATS!

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

While there are many reasons I think the majority of people keeping these fish in small tanks are casual hobbiest who don't know any better. These aren't the type of people who go on the internet to research their hobby. They may have had fresh water tanks as kids where you can cram a buch of fish in a small area. They go to pet stores and see these fish in their small display tanks and think they will be fine in similar size tanks at their house.

Actually I pretty much described myself back in 1990 when I got my first saltwater tank (no internet back then). After having freshwater 5-10 gallon tanks as a kid, I thought my 55 galllon saltwater tank was huge. I cycled it with damsels, per the LFS, and proceded to load it with fish. I had multiple tangs and Angels as well as other fish. Almost all came from the same LFS who were familar with me and my tank. Other than compatability discussions, I had no idea I was overstocking or putting fish in too small of a tank.

Nowadays I rarely do anything without researching it on the internet. Many however, rely on the "experts" at the LFS who rarely say no.

I think the majority of people who get into this hobby are told to do research and read read and read some more. Saltwater is not like freshwater where you toss a couple fish in and done. It's a lot more complicated, hence why people do their research. If you rely on some pet stores you can easily have nothing but problems. Some people at the pet stores don't even own a saltwater tank and will scoop the fish out and not ask a single question. However, some fish stores will steer you in the right direction. This is why you should take time to look up fish compatibility, minimum size...doing so will obviously save you time in the long run! People who are new will research water chemistry, parameters, fish compatibility, coral placement, etc, etc...

Assuming most people rely on the pet store employees for information I believe to be false, if some people are to lazy to research then I bet you any money problems will arise in no time! :blown:

 

[Pallobi]

I agree that the hobbyist is responsible however with the amount of blue tangs i see in every fish store and most of them tiny i would bet most are not going to what i would consider proper sized tanks.Where is the industrys efforts to curtail this?They are now captivly raised in large numbers so i am guessing that does not cross any of the people supplying the stock.To Pallobi as a fellow patriots fan -GO PATS!

WOOT FOOTBALL SUNDAY! GO PATS! BRING ON THE STEELERS NEXT WEEK !

sorry had to, its in my blood lol...

but anyhow, i understand i am fighting a losing battle, but again, if this thread curves at least one person from doing this, then i did a good thing, regardless of who disagrees with my method or thread...

 

[BrianD]

Although I agree that an informational discussion is valid and beneficial, don't you think this particular subject has been rather beat to death on here? Are threads like this to truly to learn and understand why people keep tangs in small tanks, or simply a reason to start a debate? We've all seen the age old tang debate argued for years with absolutely no resolve. Honestly, I think we'll all sooner agree on politics before we reach a general consensus on the proper tank size for tangs and the like.

Although I agree that people shouldn't be nonchalant when caring for marine creatures, I don't think anyone should pass judgment. In almost 2 decades in this hobby, I've seen several hard and fast "rules" broken. In fact, I remember a day when it was taboo to keep fish in a reef tank at all....

Threads on cycling tanks have been "beat to death" as well. Keep in mind that everything is "new" to a first-time hobbyist. These threads aren't going to influence an experienced aquarist. However, they may provide food for thought for the beginning aquarist.

I am not going to pass judgment on someone for keeping a tomini tang in a 75 gallon tank. If a Naso sp. is placed in the same tank, I might

 

[SaltwaterAdict]

Threads on cycling tanks have been "beat to death" as well. Keep in mind that everything is "new" to a first-time hobbyist. These threads aren't going to influence an experienced aquarist. However, they may provide food for thought for the beginning aquarist.

I am not going to pass judgment on someone for keeping a tomini tang in a 75 gallon tank. If a Naso sp. is placed in the same tank, I might

Exactly Brain, Serpentman these threads are to help newcomers who don't know any better that's all. There certainly is a fine line between putting tang in a properly sized tank and putting them in an undersized one. When people come to you and ask you if say, "how do you think a yellow tang would do in my 10 gallon or 20 gallon L, but he's a tiny little 1" baby." I'm guessing you'd obviously say he's going to get big rather quickly and you'd need to put him in a larger tank for him to do good long term. Probably 75gallon would be most suitable, no??