blue tangs in very small tanks... what compells people to do so...

[reefgeezer]

I agree with Jeremey's assertion that survival responses are evolved. I'm not sure about "learned"... I'd buy "conditioned response". However, I believe that growth rate of some species, particularly schooling ones, is a survival response that developed over time to ensure the survival of the school when environmental factors in the wild are less than optimal. I think this response is what slows or stops growth without affecting the fish's overall health. WITHIN REASON, I don't believe a Tang will continue to grow to a point it will waste away and die for lack of room.

IMO, WITHIN REASON means that the fish is kept in a tank with the capacity to meet its support its bioload and keep it free from excessive stress at the size it would be reasonably be expected to attain. Again IMO, a well maintained 3' 45 gallon tank could support ONE of the smaller Tangs like Hippo Tang, but a 4' 75 Gallon tank would be too small for even one of the larger Tangs like a Naso or Atantic Blue.

 

[Pallobi]

blue tangs are hardly one of the smaller tangs... they dont get 18 to 24" like a few do, but they will grow to upward of 14"... where as some of the zebrasoma species, will get 8 to 9"... to the best of my knowledge...

 

[Sk8r]

Actually the tank size requirement is larger for a Hippo (Regal, or Pacific Blue) than an Atlantic (or Caribbean) Blue, although the Atlantic is the potentially larger fish. It has to do with habit, among other things.

Note too, that if a tank starts to crash, the first fatality will be the tangs. Oxygen requirement. Next will be the angels. This is how, when somebody in the Newbie forum posts about suddenly dying, but apparently well fish--- and they list tangs as the first death---my first thought is: oxygenation problem.

That's another danger of big tangs in little tanks. A tang sucks oxygen like a ramjet as it swims, oxygenating its body, doing all the things that the respiration process does for physiology---hyping up kidney action, metabolism, etc. But it's also using up the available oxygen in the tank, faster than it accumulates in a smaller tank. Cheato moss in a fuge can help, a skimmer helps, etc, but then the power goes out. The tang keeps breathing until it can't get enough oxygen. By then---nobody else can. Other species begin to go, in sequence. And of course waste products pile up. Really bad news. If you're at work---or worse---on vacation---its really, really bad.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

[profanity]

27 gallon tank, 1.25" long hippo.

 

[Toddrtrex]

.

27 gallon tank, 1.25" long hippo.

Try to post without swearing.

Second -- the point of your post?

 

[funkejj]

Quarantine tanks are a totally separate issue.

You misunderstood what I meant. I had him in QT then moved him into my 29 gallon tank for just shy of a month before he went to the 180. I kept him in a small home knowing I was going to a larger tank. That is why I did what I did.

 

[Pallobi]

Actually the tank size requirement is larger for a Hippo (Regal, or Pacific Blue) than an Atlantic (or Caribbean) Blue, although the Atlantic is the potentially larger fish. It has to do with habit, among other things.

Note too, that if a tank starts to crash, the first fatality will be the tangs. Oxygen requirement. Next will be the angels. This is how, when somebody in the Newbie forum posts about suddenly dying, but apparently well fish--- and they list tangs as the first death---my first thought is: oxygenation problem.

That's another danger of big tangs in little tanks. A tang sucks oxygen like a ramjet as it swims, oxygenating its body, doing all the things that the respiration process does for physiology---hyping up kidney action, metabolism, etc. But it's also using up the available oxygen in the tank, faster than it accumulates in a smaller tank. Cheato moss in a fuge can help, a skimmer helps, etc, but then the power goes out. The tang keeps breathing until it can't get enough oxygen. By then---nobody else can. Other species begin to go, in sequence. And of course waste products pile up. Really bad news. If you're at work---or worse---on vacation---its really, really bad.

another good post thank you

 

[BrianD]

You misunderstood what I meant. I had him in QT then moved him into my 29 gallon tank for just shy of a month before he went to the 180. I kept him in a small home knowing I was going to a larger tank. That is why I did what I did.

No one is questioning a tang housed in a termporary circumstance, whether it be for quarantine or antoher purpose.

 

[BrianD]

<font size="1" color="#0000FF">profanity removed</font>

27 gallon tank, 1.25" long hippo.

Do you have a point, or did you just want to provoke a reaction? Based on your initial comment on your post, I suspect the latter.

 

[rednkfish]

going home and adding an airline in my sump to make sure the Oxygen level stays good. Is there a such thing as too much o2?

 

[Toddrtrex]

going home and adding an airline in my sump to make sure the Oxygen level stays good. Is there a such thing as too much o2?

In theory you could have too much O2, but given that the "air" will only have around 20% O2, nothing to worry about.

 

[rednkfish]

After reading the post obut O2 I want to make sure i keep the two tangs Powder blue and purple with everything they need. 6' tank
it will be a small pump until i can find a larger skimmer.

thanks Todd

 

[reefgeezer]

Great thread minus the obvious problem posts. Unfortunately, I think everything that can be said has been. We may still disagree on the whys and hows, but we will all have to think a little more the next time we are considering the purchase of any fish that is relatively large for our tanks. To that end, it was worth suffering the BS.

 

[Pallobi]

Great thread minus the obvious problem posts. Unfortunately, I think everything that can be said has been. We may still disagree on the whys and hows, but we will all have to think a little more the next time we are considering the purchase of any fish that is relatively large for our tanks. To that end, it was worth suffering the BS.

well said, thank you for taking part in the actual discussion part of it... much appreciated no matter how you view the sublject

 

[Daniel Reef]

I still the OP's questions as to whether LFS are misleading noobies to purchase tangs and put them in inappropriate tanks have not been addressed. I would like to know is this a wide spread phenomenon and whether anything is being done to educate LFS not to engage in this practice, but to instead educate hobbyists about what is an appropriate fish for their tank size. If I missed this part of the thread, I apologize in advance.

 

[reefgeezer]

I still the OP's questions as to whether LFS are misleading noobies to purchase tangs and put them in inappropriate tanks have not been addressed. I would like to know is this a wide spread phenomenon and whether anything is being done to educate LFS not to engage in this practice, but to instead educate hobbyists about what is an appropriate fish for their tank size. If I missed this part of the thread, I apologize in advance.

Most LFS will sell anything to anyone that will pony up the cash. That's their business. No amount of education will change that. I'm reformed now, but I owned a LFS once. Although I didn't like doing it, and succeeded in talking customers out of buying an inappropriate specimen from time to time, in the end the customer is always right. That's one of the reasons I no longer own the store.

 

[jenglish]

I agree with Jeremey's assertion that survival responses are evolved. I'm not sure about "learned"... I'd buy "conditioned response". However, I believe that growth rate of some species, particularly schooling ones, is a survival response that developed over time to ensure the survival of the school when environmental factors in the wild are less than optimal. I think this response is what slows or stops growth without affecting the fish's overall health. WITHIN REASON, I don't believe a Tang will continue to grow to a point it will waste away and die for lack of room.

Conditioned responses are considered a type of learning, at least in human behaviorism. Nomenclature may be different in natural animal behavior journals. I would find it odd for a schooling fish in the ocean to have the adaptation to limit size based on factors such as carrying capacity. Schooling fish school since there is survival value in it (at least part of the day) but still compete within the school. So it would not really add survival value for any individual to limit it's size. Tangs in particular are very competitive with one another at peak photosynthesis when algae has it's most nutrition and are more likely to school during times that safety is more important than grazing rights.

I think though you are correct we have probably reached an impasse where people are simply restating their position rather than discussing new information.

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

Try to post without swearing.

Second -- the point of your post?

I thought the point of the censor was to censor? Ive allowed the censor to do its job, ive never worked around it on here in 2000+ posts....where is the harm in allowing imagination to fill in the blank the censor creates?

Not looking to fight here, i read the first post, saw 10+ pages of replies. Put 1+1 together and figured it was a crap storm of drama going on in here. Was i wrong? I really didn't read all of this, so i don't know.

Really i have that tang, in that tank. If i got an infraction for that....i dont know what to say. Just wow......:rolleye1:

 

[1DeR9_3Hy]

Do you have a point, or did you just want to provoke a reaction? Based on your initial comment on your post, I suspect the latter.

You know when you assume....

See above boss.

 

[Jeff000]

I still the OP's questions as to whether LFS are misleading noobies to purchase tangs and put them in inappropriate tanks have not been addressed. I would like to know is this a wide spread phenomenon and whether anything is being done to educate LFS not to engage in this practice, but to instead educate hobbyists about what is an appropriate fish for their tank size. If I missed this part of the thread, I apologize in advance.

As long as the LFS isn't saying that a fish will be fine in a tank that its not going to be fine in then there is no misleading.
I find my LFS (big box store) has lots of knowledgable staff, and will be more then willing to give there opinion on how fish will interact or do in a tank or find someone that will have a better answer.

But if they are not asked they do not ask. And why should they? They are not the fish tank police, should you have to go to a store with a water sample the start date of your tank, its exact contents, the last time it had a problem, what that problem was, etc etc etc?
Nope, they assume the customer knows what they are buying and what they have if they do not ask questions.

I know the assume saying, but in this case the only *** is the customer.

Just today when I was buying a tube anemone there was a couple in there buying a lion fish, a queen angle and a manderin goby, they asked a couple questions, like how big, what they eat and if these fish will do ok with a couple of clowns that are territorial about their anemone, sounds like they know what they are doing. As the guy was catching the fish he asked me about my tank, I mentioned I wanted the tube but my tank has only been up for 5 months and I am crossing my fingers. His answer, "it'll be fine, we set up our 35 gallon tall last sunday and got our anemone wednesday and its doing great, better then it looked here in the store". (its friday, so not even a week).

As soon as the staff grabbing the fish heard he said (before I could) "everything in your tank is going to die, and if for some maricle they dont everything will be far too large for your tank"
Customer said the fish will fine and he will make it work. He paid just before I did, 340 and change after the red brittle star and some other inverts.


I don't know why I shared that but its long and I already typed it. And its kind of on topic.