Bubble blaster vs Askoll pumps?

[plancton]

So if I place the pump deeper I will get still better results?, that sounds like really good news. I just can´t do that modding on the ASM G3 cuz its just like a quick fix while I get the alpha cone 250 replica done, but even though the pump is losing a lot of efficiency due to this, it still gets twice as much skimmate as the Sedra pump that came with the ASM G3, that´s nice.

 

[hammmerhead]

so the deeper the pump is in water, the more air it pulls?

Yes, to a certain extent. Every pump and skimmer combo has its own sweet spot.

 

[hammmerhead]

scratch that "happy for sure" comment posted earlier. Im kinda thinking that this pump i have here has issues.
I hooked it up about 1 pm today and have had nothing but trouble from it. i cant keep a consistent water level in the skimmer and have overflowed the cup at least a dozen times,killing a timer in the process. If I plug the air with my finger the pump seems to run beautiful, as soon as it gets air the impeller starts rattling and vibrating, and makes a noise similar to a busted impeller sound. I pulled it apart, to look which i shouldnt have to do on a 6 hr old pump, and there is nothing obviously wrong.
Im lost, I dont know where to go with this,any ideas??


Edit: i started a thread about this.

Drop your water level to 8 inches and let the pump run for a full day with the wedge pipe wide open. 10 inches may be over doing it causing the pump to cavitate. As your pump breaks in it get a hold of the water or takes adhesion to it. If you had a high water level in the skimmer from the get go, once all the oils and other chemicals wore off and the pump it started "breaking in"...well the foam and bubble production increased, which would cause an over flow.

It would be like sticking you hand in the sump and watching you buuble production in the skimmer fall on its face and then immediately setting the skimmer at a higher level only to watch it over flow once the adhesion of the water was back.

 

[tangtang clown]

Ryan, what pump do you have, and what skimmer is it on? Do you have any pics?

 

[tangtang clown]

BB3000 on OctoX 200

BB3000 on OctoX 200

Seems to be skimming very good! It fills the entire body from the top of the bubbleplate to the neck with white milky bubbles. I'm don't think this pump is better than an askoll, just better priced. I would get an askoll also if I could.
Cheers.

I cleaned the cup Wed night and I have a very clean tank so there isn't much to skim, but it still does. :dance:

Here you can see the bubble line

 

[Rysam]

Drop your water level to 8 inches and let the pump run for a full day with the wedge pipe wide open. 10 inches may be over doing it causing the pump to cavitate. As your pump breaks in it get a hold of the water or takes adhesion to it. If you had a high water level in the skimmer from the get go, once all the oils and other chemicals wore off and the pump it started "breaking in"...well the foam and bubble production increased, which would cause an over flow.

It would be like sticking you hand in the sump and watching you buuble production in the skimmer fall on its face and then immediately setting the skimmer at a higher level only to watch it over flow once the adhesion of the water was back.

I have a bad pump and it showed itself last night. It was squealing and rattling very loud(I could hear it in my bedroom at the other end of the house) and not doing what a 200$ pump should. i know about breaking in and whats associated but this is way above and beyond the norm. it did it in the sink with fresh ,vinegar, open air and then hooked up.

thanks for your help guys, its just a bad one and going back.

 

[luther1200]

so the deeper the pump is in water, the more air it pulls?

I don't think the depth the pump is in is really a factor. Its just how much water Vs. air is being pumped. The less water is pushed the more air will be and vise-versa. So if you close the valve to slow down the pump more air will be drawn. And if you open the valve to let more water flow the air draw will go down. It doesn't really matter if the pump itself is under 1" or 5". It would have more to do with the outflow of the pump on the skimmer body.

 

[tangtang clown]

This is what the bb3000 looks and sounds like. The noises in the background are my dogs walking on a hard wood floor and a wood fire. I can't hear this pump at all over my overflow drains and CL pump.

 

[plancton]

What valve?

I don't think the depth the pump is in is really a factor. Its just how much water Vs. air is being pumped. The less water is pushed the more air will be and vise-versa. So if you close the valve to slow down the pump more air will be drawn. And if you open the valve to let more water flow the air draw will go down. It doesn't really matter if the pump itself is under 1" or 5". It would have more to do with the outflow of the pump on the skimmer body.

 

[luther1200]

I guess it would be the wedge pipe on most skimmers. Some have gate valves. Really a wedge pipe is just a form of valve. Thats what I meant, by valve sorry.

 

[hammmerhead]

I don't think the depth the pump is in is really a factor. Its just how much water Vs. air is being pumped. The less water is pushed the more air will be and vise-versa. So if you close the valve to slow down the pump more air will be drawn. And if you open the valve to let more water flow the air draw will go down. It doesn't really matter if the pump itself is under 1" or 5". It would have more to do with the outflow of the pump on the skimmer body.

Every in sump skimmer I have owned pulls more air in deeper sump levels. Of course this does increase the amount of water being pushed through the skimmer, but water flow and air scfh go hand in hand...at least until someone comes up with a new trick. It takes more water flow through the pump to increase the airflow because it is the water flow itself that is creating the suction or drawing the air. Your valve or Wedge pipe should make very liitle to no difference on how much air the pump is pulling once its set.

 

[luther1200]

I know many people use Kill-a-watt's to see how much power they are pulling. And there is a direct correlation between watts, and air pull. Usually the lower the watts the more air. Thats because the lower the amount of water being pushed through the volute the more air it can accommodate. If you have a certain diameter volute exit and more of that diameter is filled with water it would only make sense there is less room for air. At least that was always my understanding. The only thing thats going to make a pump move more water is the wedge pipe adjustment, it shouldn't matter what depth the pump is in. The wedge pipe is basically the throttle of the pump, like people throttle back return pumps with a ball/gate valve. I don't understand what the pump being under a different amount of water would do, so would a return pump work better under 12" of water Vs. 6"? I'm not saying I'm right or wrong and I am not trying to be argumentative so please don't think I am

 

[hammmerhead]

I know many people use Kill-a-watt's to see how much power they are pulling. And there is a direct correlation between watts, and air pull. Usually the lower the watts the more air. Thats because the lower the amount of water being pushed through the volute the more air it can accommodate. If you have a certain diameter volute exit and more of that diameter is filled with water it would only make sense there is less room for air. At least that was always my understanding. The only thing thats going to make a pump move more water is the wedge pipe adjustment, it shouldn't matter what depth the pump is in. The wedge pipe is basically the throttle of the pump, like people throttle back return pumps with a ball/gate valve. I don't understand what the pump being under a different amount of water would do, so would a return pump work better under 12" of water Vs. 6"? I'm not saying I'm right or wrong and I am not trying to be argumentative so please don't think I am

Thanks Luther, me either.
There are so many variables with the skimmers offered today its a little irritating that more real scientific research has not been done in this area. Maybe some physics Guru's can chime in here on our discussion. You are right from what I have seen on many counts and what I post is only mesurements I have seen. The wattage use does go down in more shallow sump depths and the water to air ratio may be more favorable. However, I have been able to pick up more SCFH on my meter running with higher sump depths. Now a few of the skimmer variables that the manufactures focus on are turbulence, dwell time, and efficiency. The higher sump levels do cause more turbulence, less dwell time in most cases and higher wattage usage, but you can pick up 10-25% more air SCFH with these higher levels. It seems that how deep the water my skimmer canister is sitting in or equalized in surrounding water will change how easily my pump can fill it. Its like taking a return pump that has a zero head and measuring its GPH, then making it pump 5 feet to the top of your tank, pumping to the top of the tank is going to make it pump a lot less, maybe almost half of it max GPH. The same goes for my skimmer canister that is 70% out of the water as compared to having it submerged deeper and only 40 -50% being out of the water. Im certainly no expert on any of this, but I can pick up and extra 15 SCFH with an extra 1.5-2 inches of sump depth with my current skimmer or going from a 7 inch depth to about 8.5 to 9 inches.....is it doing a better job of skimming? I dont know, but it is pulling much more air and has only increased by 5 watts. It seems like everyone grades a skimmer immediately on how much air it pulls but with so many other factors it sure is a grey area anymore.

 

[tqui]

Hi Steve....
I bought a BB3000 for the extreme 200 that i bought from you and it's running like a beast comparing to the sicce pump...
Anyway...great explanation on the water level.. i got my skimmer running at roughly 10" or more, and i have to emptly the collection cup every 2-3days or wet but dark skimmate...

 

[hammmerhead]

Hi Steve....
I bought a BB3000 for the extreme 200 that i bought from you and it's running like a beast comparing to the sicce pump...
Anyway...great explanation on the water level.. i got my skimmer running at roughly 10" or more, and i have to emptly the collection cup every 2-3days or wet but dark skimmate...

Hey Tqui. Glad to hear the SWC 200 canister I sent you is still rocking on.

 

[luther1200]

It does make sense, but maybe it has more to do with the water level in the skimmer body, than the actual depth of pump?

So do most people get better results in deeper water?

 

[hammmerhead]

It does make sense, but maybe it has more to do with the water level in the skimmer body, than the actual depth of pump?

So do most people get better results in deeper water?

Your probably right Luther. Since most insump skimmers have the pump at the bottom or base of the canister, the higher sump levels involving the skimmer body would also include a pump that would be deeper in the sump.

 

[Mr.leee]

will i just did a test on air pull from different depth of the bb3000. the deeper the pump is in the less air it pulls. iam using a dwyer. my bb3000 is mesh with as many mesh i can fit in it. when the pump is just 4-5in of water the pump was doing 50+scfh in a 5gallon bucket(this is free flow with out the backpresure of the skimmer). when i hook it up to the msx200 in 10in of water it was doing only 35scfh.

in 5-6in of water its doing almost 40scfh.
in 2-3in of water it doing 43scfh.

 

[hammmerhead]

will i just did a test on air pull from different depth of the bb3000. the deeper the pump is in the less air it pulls. iam using a dwyer. my bb3000 is mesh with as many mesh i can fit in it. when the pump is just 4-5in of water the pump was doing 50+scfh in a 5gallon bucket(this is free flow with out the backpresure of the skimmer). when i hook it up to the msx200 in 10in of water it was doing only 35scfh.

in 5-6in of water its doing almost 40scfh.
in 2-3in of water it doing 43scfh.

Hmm. That is opposite of what I have seen. I just sold a SWC 200/ Sicce combo. I had 3 layers of flatback about 1/2 inch larger diameter than the wheel itself. It peaked at around a 10 inch depth and pulled in the mid
40's, but wouldnt start on its own. I have had the same positive results from maximizing my sump height running a Aqua C/Mag combo, SWC/Sicce and now a SWC/Askoll setup. With everyone hooking custom pumps up to their skimmers they should really buy or borrow a meter and see what their combo likes the best.

 

[Mr.leee]

how much scfh is your askoll pulling?