Clarion Angel experience?

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Does anyone know whether the Clarions collected were juveniles or adults? Or both?

Either case they have a bulletproof reputation as already stated, so purchasing one is not going to be such a gamble.
 
The ones I have been offered are in the 4" range with juvenile/sub adult colors.
As far as distribution goes, I hear that only so many will be offered to the US for a limited time and then the remaining will go to Asia.
This is just speculation but I wouldn't be surprised if this is the only ones we will see for a while.
 
i was told that they r mostly "teenagers" anywhere from 3-6". Still with subadult colors like triggerfish said.
 
It is a one-off permit, so only one shipment. Most will go to Asia, only a few will come to the US.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11612533#post11612533 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jmaneyapanda

John, I'm a little leary of believeing what I see in some of those asian tanks. Heck, we have all seen the one with 15+ bandits in what looks like a 20 gallon high tank. It is hard for me to believe ether is a lot of long term success in harmony. I know this view is very untrusting and borderline stereotypical, but it is just hard for me to swallow.

What?:D All of Asia is not like that... I was talking about personal face to face talks I've had with two separate Japanese retailers, and a couple of hobbyists I respect very much, who had experience with these guys... many from the well known illegal shipment of clarions a few years back... many were kept in sps reefs, and the only issues were as the fish grew and became menaces. Many of these have showed back up on the Japanese market over the last few years fetching very high prices...

One other thing I've realized through the years is what I've dubbed "the pleco effect". Angelfish are much more likely to pick on stressed or dieing corals... I've seen it first hand so many times through the years. When I was in high school and worked a LFS I'd hear all the time people coming and saying "My pleco ate my fish!" In reality their fish died, and the pleco was taking advantage of it. This happens so frequently with angels... people in the hobby like easy answers... quantifiable ones... the same reason people blame lighting so much... lighting is easily quantifiable... most problems in this hobby are from multiple factors and many times do not have simple answers you could put in a quick post, but you wouldn't believe it reading many posts... water quality and poor system design and upkeep is the root of so many problems but is so hard to quanitfy. I'm sort of getting off track, but the point is that if someone sees an angel picking on their coral they always blame the angel (the pleco many times), and don't even think the problem may be something else. Do some angels pick on corals? Absolutely! But picking here and there on sps is not harmful always, and natural! Some of this ridiculous daytime polyp extension in some tanks I see with little fish is cool, but not natural...

Anyway, back to the clarions... we'll just need to wait a week or so and see what happens. Anything could still happen... after all it's Mexico, and until they clear in this country nothing is definite, but this is exciting for us angelfish nuts... they are all in the 3-6" range... smaller than that and their metabolism is higher and need to be fed more frequently during collection and shipment... and they're not really seen that small at this time of year anyway... larger than 6 inches or so and transport is tough. They are beautiful throughout life, and there would be a market for larger specimens, but for a fish this common and easy to collect in the wild(relative to other "rare" angels in this hobby), it's not feasible... $2500 should be about the retail price, but as always it depends how things will pan out and how they will trickle through the system...

Copps
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11620843#post11620843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps

One other thing I've realized through the years is what I've dubbed "the pleco effect". Angelfish are much more likely to pick on stressed or dieing corals... I've seen it first hand so many times through the years. When I was in high school and worked a LFS I'd hear all the time people coming and saying "My pleco ate my fish!" In reality their fish died, and the pleco was taking advantage of it. This happens so frequently with angels... people in the hobby like easy answers... quantifiable ones... the same reason people blame lighting so much... lighting is easily quantifiable... most problems in this hobby are from multiple factors and many times do not have simple answers you could put in a quick post, but you wouldn't believe it reading many posts... water quality and poor system design and upkeep is the root of so many problems but is so hard to quanitfy. I'm sort of getting off track, but the point is that if someone sees an angel picking on their coral they always blame the angel (the pleco many times), and don't even think the problem may be something else. Do some angels pick on corals? Absolutely! But picking here and there on sps is not harmful always, and natural! Some of this ridiculous daytime polyp extension in some tanks I see with little fish is cool, but not natural...
Copps

My experiences have shown me this as well. Angels are detritus eaters in nature and the excess slime produced by stressed out corals fall into that catergory.

As far as the Clarions go, waiting a week may be to long from what I heard. I have already been given an approx. date of when mine should arrive on my door and it is less than a week away.
I am sure there will be limited demand from the US so I am curious to see how quickly they decide to just send them overseas just to get them off their hands.
 
You could go tell your favorite LFS now you want one, but again many things could still happen... retailers and wholesalers do not have these fish in hand yet... that's what I meant by waiting and seeing... they're still not here yet... :)
 
John, I am also with you on the "Pleco effect." Had it happen with a clam and they all went for it and ate it clean, but left all the others (even one's right next to it) alone. This one had looked a little strange in the days before.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11620843#post11620843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
What?:D All of Asia is not like that... I was talking about personal face to face talks I've had with two separate Japanese retailers, and a couple of hobbyists I respect very much, who had experience with these guys... many from the well known illegal shipment of clarions a few years back... many were kept in sps reefs, and the only issues were as the fish grew and became menaces. Many of these have showed back up on the Japanese market over the last few years fetching very high prices...

One other thing I've realized through the years is what I've dubbed "the pleco effect". Angelfish are much more likely to pick on stressed or dieing corals... I've seen it first hand so many times through the years. When I was in high school and worked a LFS I'd hear all the time people coming and saying "My pleco ate my fish!" In reality their fish died, and the pleco was taking advantage of it. This happens so frequently with angels... people in the hobby like easy answers... quantifiable ones... the same reason people blame lighting so much... lighting is easily quantifiable... most problems in this hobby are from multiple factors and many times do not have simple answers you could put in a quick post, but you wouldn't believe it reading many posts... water quality and poor system design and upkeep is the root of so many problems but is so hard to quanitfy. I'm sort of getting off track, but the point is that if someone sees an angel picking on their coral they always blame the angel (the pleco many times), and don't even think the problem may be something else. Do some angels pick on corals? Absolutely! But picking here and there on sps is not harmful always, and natural! Some of this ridiculous daytime polyp extension in some tanks I see with little fish is cool, but not natural...

Anyway, back to the clarions... we'll just need to wait a week or so and see what happens. Anything could still happen... after all it's Mexico, and until they clear in this country nothing is definite, but this is exciting for us angelfish nuts... they are all in the 3-6" range... smaller than that and their metabolism is higher and need to be fed more frequently during collection and shipment... and they're not really seen that small at this time of year anyway... larger than 6 inches or so and transport is tough. They are beautiful throughout life, and there would be a market for larger specimens, but for a fish this common and easy to collect in the wild(relative to other "rare" angels in this hobby), it's not feasible... $2500 should be about the retail price, but as always it depends how things will pan out and how they will trickle through the system...

Copps

John, this just goes to show my inexperience in this matter. I have never been to Japan, Hong Kong. Singapore, Etc. I only know what I have seen in books and on this site. And unfortunately, I ahvent seen a very good amalgamation. Sure, there are spectacular tankls, but, I have also seen far to many "status" tanks.

Now, to the "pleco effect". The exact same thing is seen in this world with shrimps and clams. A clam is dead or dying, the crabs and snails do their clean up job, and the aquarist cris bloody murder on the snails and crabs. However, with angels, I must confess I believe there is much more to it than this. While I dont disagree AT ALL that the angels will pick at stressed corals, I also think a "stressed" fish will pick. By this, I mean what does a bored or non-satiated angel have to do, aside from browse for food. I have yet to see a picture of a wild angel that is thin. Yet, this hobby seems to promote "dont overfeed". I understand why, and can appreciate the sentiment, but I feel this also drives a lot of fish to do things that we dont desire. Such as eat corals. People are very afraid to feed their tanks, and I think many fish, including angels, need a lot of food. So, in a nutshell, while I certainly dont disagree with your statemnet, I dont think it ais a ultimate solution, either.

Anyway, I think clarions are wonderful, but for that much coin, I would rather get a conspic or two, and be a lot more at ease.
 
You guys crack me up with your info :lol:

FWIW non of the fish will be fed from collection to export, and they never are in Baja as well. Once stateside they only get fed if they aren't being shipped right back out. How do I know, I'll be unpacking them as I did with the last legal ones to come thru :)
 
Excellent news Gresham! :)

What I meant by that comment is that small ones do not do well throughout shipment as they require feedings. I've heard about issues with this especially with Holacanthus (like africanus), and Steve told me something along these lines as well with these... is this wrong? It's generally known that smaller fish need more frequent feedings...

When are these landing?
 
Man you gotta have deep pockets to drop that kind of cheese on a fish, I only hope I get to see another. saw them in Long Beach Aquarium after the last ones were taken by G&F. Sweet angel, much better then a conspic.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11633060#post11633060 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
Excellent news Gresham! :)

What I meant by that comment is that small ones do not do well throughout shipment as they require feedings. I've heard about issues with this especially with Holacanthus (like africanus), and Steve told me something along these lines as well with these... is this wrong? It's generally known that smaller fish need more frequent feedings...

When are these landing?

To be honest, I'd have to check my emails as it's been pushed back a few times and I have a few dates stuck in my head :lol:

The longest journey for them will be the trip back from the islands. Once they land it's just a few days till they are shipped out. There really isn't much time for them to be fed prior to be shipped and still be cleaned out for shipping.

We have no problem shipping XXL Passers, Clarions or Cortez's from Baja. No different then the smaller fish except much larger bags(2 to a box). The flight it so short they barely need acclimation and fight right out of the bag if given the chance :lol:

17643Clarionhybrid.jpg


this guy was like a foot tip to tail

17643Xynthaticpasser.jpg


this guy was over a foot

17643clarionwithpasser.jpg


this guy was like 8"
 
I think my wife would literally murder me if i even mentioned paying that much for a fish. They are a gorgeous fish but not for that price tag, I don't have that deep of pockets plus the U.S. is unknowingly in a recession. Save your money for when we are paying $5+ for a gallon of gas this summer. Hate to be a downer, but to spend that much on something that could potentially die upon being put in your tank is too risky and not financially feasible for the average saltwater hobbiest(although for all I know you guys might be millionaires). For those getting these secret shipments, are there any guarantees being offered?

BTW, even though I just had a semi-rant, please post pics of your new additions once you get them.
 
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