<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11620843#post11620843 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by copps
What? All of Asia is not like that... I was talking about personal face to face talks I've had with two separate Japanese retailers, and a couple of hobbyists I respect very much, who had experience with these guys... many from the well known illegal shipment of clarions a few years back... many were kept in sps reefs, and the only issues were as the fish grew and became menaces. Many of these have showed back up on the Japanese market over the last few years fetching very high prices...
One other thing I've realized through the years is what I've dubbed "the pleco effect". Angelfish are much more likely to pick on stressed or dieing corals... I've seen it first hand so many times through the years. When I was in high school and worked a LFS I'd hear all the time people coming and saying "My pleco ate my fish!" In reality their fish died, and the pleco was taking advantage of it. This happens so frequently with angels... people in the hobby like easy answers... quantifiable ones... the same reason people blame lighting so much... lighting is easily quantifiable... most problems in this hobby are from multiple factors and many times do not have simple answers you could put in a quick post, but you wouldn't believe it reading many posts... water quality and poor system design and upkeep is the root of so many problems but is so hard to quanitfy. I'm sort of getting off track, but the point is that if someone sees an angel picking on their coral they always blame the angel (the pleco many times), and don't even think the problem may be something else. Do some angels pick on corals? Absolutely! But picking here and there on sps is not harmful always, and natural! Some of this ridiculous daytime polyp extension in some tanks I see with little fish is cool, but not natural...
Anyway, back to the clarions... we'll just need to wait a week or so and see what happens. Anything could still happen... after all it's Mexico, and until they clear in this country nothing is definite, but this is exciting for us angelfish nuts... they are all in the 3-6" range... smaller than that and their metabolism is higher and need to be fed more frequently during collection and shipment... and they're not really seen that small at this time of year anyway... larger than 6 inches or so and transport is tough. They are beautiful throughout life, and there would be a market for larger specimens, but for a fish this common and easy to collect in the wild(relative to other "rare" angels in this hobby), it's not feasible... $2500 should be about the retail price, but as always it depends how things will pan out and how they will trickle through the system...
Copps
John, this just goes to show my inexperience in this matter. I have never been to Japan, Hong Kong. Singapore, Etc. I only know what I have seen in books and on this site. And unfortunately, I ahvent seen a very good amalgamation. Sure, there are spectacular tankls, but, I have also seen far to many "status" tanks.
Now, to the "pleco effect". The exact same thing is seen in this world with shrimps and clams. A clam is dead or dying, the crabs and snails do their clean up job, and the aquarist cris bloody murder on the snails and crabs. However, with angels, I must confess I believe there is much more to it than this. While I dont disagree AT ALL that the angels will pick at stressed corals, I also think a "stressed" fish will pick. By this, I mean what does a bored or non-satiated angel have to do, aside from browse for food. I have yet to see a picture of a wild angel that is thin. Yet, this hobby seems to promote "dont overfeed". I understand why, and can appreciate the sentiment, but I feel this also drives a lot of fish to do things that we dont desire. Such as eat corals. People are very afraid to feed their tanks, and I think many fish, including angels, need a lot of food. So, in a nutshell, while I certainly dont disagree with your statemnet, I dont think it ais a ultimate solution, either.
Anyway, I think clarions are wonderful, but for that much coin, I would rather get a conspic or two, and be a lot more at ease.