Collecting marine species in mexico

boxfishpooalot

Active member
Hi everyone!

I am moving to Mexico. I want to start a business. I believe people deserve the best care for their purchase. If you can direct me or tell me to and of any rules or regulations to collecting marine fish/coral inverts or perhaps starting an aquaculture facility with seawater as its main source of water changes thanks. I am marrying a Mexican woman so it should be an adventure! We already have the scuba diving outfits and certified diving will be next. I love the ocean and this hobby. I really want to do something good for it. Any help appreciated.
 
What you propose in far more complex than you may realize. Check out the operations of others in this business in Mexico, if you can find any. Talk to as many people as possible. Ask many questions. Have lots and lots of start-up money. Don't forget the mordita costs.
In any case, shipping livestock to individuals in this country from abroad is about as difficult to arrange as a moon landing. The collectors who deal directly with aquarists are mostly in Florida. Mexican collectors that I have seen work with large commecial importers and wholesalers who have all the needed permits and facilities for air shipments. There is not much money in that kind of thing at the collector's level.. If you are not even certified for scuba, there is a lot more you need to learn. I don't mean to sound negative, but the obstacles to a collect and ship operation are enormous.
 
Hi akee. Yes I understand how complex its going to be. Im willing to confront them. Good information however, thank you for that. We do know of one person whom owns an aquarium business there. We will speak with them about that.

What is mordita costs? She is a mexican citizen however. Basically we were going to start with bare minimum requirements. We dont own a collection boat, but we do own the scuba outfit, with tank and all. So that cost is paid for already.

Do you know of the typical area in which many marine ornamental species desired in this hobby are collected? I know butterflies are found in the waters of the carribean which includes Cancun area, so this is desireable. Also fairy basslets are there.(royal grammas) So there are a few species of desireablity in the waters of Cancun area. As far as invertebrates go we will collect them also.

I dont mind if you sound negative. My hopes are high. If all else fails, I will start a fish hatchery based on natural seawater filtration techniques. So there are many options. I already have 2 homes paid for there and a car paid for so basic living expesnes are covered. The idea is to revolutionize the aquarium hobby by delivering product at top quality and service, with minimized cost to the aquarist. I have been in the hobby many many years so I feel I have the knowledge to accomplish my dreams as well as to assist in others. I want to provide jobs to Mexican citizens as their work for is very low paid, however only the best will be paid accordingly. As this hobby deserves only the knowledgeable collectors and not rude or ignorant people whom this worlds reefs dont need for the conservation of destructive and irrational collecting and aquaculture practices.

Thanks for the reply, any more info you got, please don't hesitate to tell me. :)
 
I misspelled the word. It's mordida, and it means the little bribes and unofficial payments that are part of life in general and doing business especially in many places, Mexico included. Mexican laws are confusing, often contradictory, and frequently unenforced, but sometimes enforced with a vengance. If you do not speak fluent Spanish, better learn, Mexican wife or not. I travel often in Spanish speaking countries, and learning Spanish enriched my travels beyond description, made the quotidian details of life much easier, allowed me to see things more accurately, understand what was going on around me, and, when I was younger, gave me an very satisfying social life. I was in Panama and Colombia a few months ago, Venezuela before that, Central America and Mexico frequently over the past 40 years (Mexico, btw, is in North America. Lots of gringos don't know this).

I suspect that anyone messing with the reefs around Cozumel or any resort area will have big legal problems. I've only met two collectors in Mexico, and both were on the west coast, one in Baja/Sea of Cortez, the other down the Pacific coast toward Guatemala, where he collected rare and expensive Angelfish. The guy in Baja was recent, the Angelfish guy was many years ago. I've been told Mexican laws regarding specimen collecting are very strict, though often ignored. The US laws about wildlife coming in commercially are harsh, with draconian punishments, and they ARE inforced. Complex permits are required on the US end, and inspection of shipments is 100% and no joke. Any Caribbean corals, seafans, etc. are basically illegal to import. The Sea of Cortez and the Pacific coast have no coral reefs to speak of. I've never heard of any commercial fish collecting in Caribbean Mexico, at least not in several decades. Remember, there are lots of sharp business people in Mexico, and locals can be employed to catch reef fish (much harder than people who haven't done it would ever dream) for very low wages. If there was a viable and legal way to make money from these activities, you can be sure that there would be lots of Mexicans doing so.

In Mexico, it helps to have strong political connections. In fact, it's necessary. Any international business is going to be looked at very closely. Parts of Mexico have become unstable and very dangerous. Still, I wish you both the best of luck, and hope that you are able to learn enough to fit into some niche in the fish business. Life should be an adventure, and as we grow old we regret more the things we did not do more than things we did. I'm in my 60s, but I still travel with fish collecting gear. I do most collecting breath holding, which is feasable when you only want a couple of fish that can be found shallow. Last month I chased a Spotted Drum, breath hold diving in 20 feet of water. It took nearly two hours (with breaks) and left me exhausted, but it was wonderful, exciting, and glorious when the fish was mine.
 
In Mexico Turist are a big part of the income and the economy for the country. preserving the reefs as clean as possible is a priority, they rather have people come to visit to dive or snorkel than someone starting a bussiness to extract living corals or fish or any invertebrate. Is not a popular practice. You would have a lot of problems with locals depending where you are taking animales from, the reef is their way of living, either for food source or turist attraction. Be very careful who you talk too. I am from Mexico and married and american women( not for papers )LOL. My brother lives in the Area of Cancun and Playa del Carmen, and reefs are well protected. Puerto Morelos, Cozumel, Isla Mujeres and the surronding areas have been damaged by hurricanes and they are very concern about the way the aquatic life has changed in that area.
I do not know where you are moving but just think twice before you act and get in trouble with the( corrupt) police, you do not want to visit the prision. Beleive me they will love to put a gabacho in prision. Fishing one or two fish for fun or food not problem but in large numbers is a big deal.
Good luck
 
I have a friend who is Mexican and here with his green card, he has an export permit for Mexican aquaruim fish from the govt, but the problem is the govt will not issue him a collection permit, he has to buy fish from the 2 (that is the problem, there are only 2 permits issued) collectors, and they only sell to their "friends". He says he can't get fish and it is dangerous to collect as the 2 permit holders have connections that he does not want to run into if you know what I mean.

I wish you luck, I used to collect for a living and things have changed, if you can get the permits from the govt, the rest is easy as there are many fish that are easily sellable and it could be a very successful business. things like blue spot jawfish, cortez and passer angels, several chromis and wrasses, the list could go on and on, but the hurdles you must go over will all be paperwork, just keep up on it until you get what you need to start your business.
 
Warning. You will be attempting to removed something from their source of income, that is not much. If there was a great demand for export aquarium fish from mexico, then you will be able to find more than a handfull of export guys. The fishing in mexico it is mostly for feeding pourpose, either local or export. Why is this permited just because can give the community a source of income and work available, either way they are taking away from the ocean and the resources are getting shorter.
 
BoxFish -- Let me offer you a different perspective of sorts, but one from somebody that is in this business... DON'T DO IT!

A few years ago I built an aquaculture facility in Arkansas which was the first full-scale, high-end facility here. I spent an insane amount of money building it, but was able to keep those costs to an absolute bare minimum because I built it all up in my basement. As long as business was good, then I had few issues aside from the inevitable power outages, small isolated electrical fires, contaminates, parasites that would threaten to wipe out everything, etc.

I was doing great and making very good money when the rest of the country was doing the same thing. Once the economy tanked and people began losing their jobs and homes, my business beganm suffereing to the point that I was forced to "temporarily" shut down specific portions of my operation, because there was no sense in paying to operate something that was no longer being utilized. The ice storm that sat over us for 4 days last February was the nail in my coffin so to speak, because so many of my clients lost their reef systems when they suddenly were without power for anywhere from a week minumum to a month or more... I myself had to make hard decisions as to which systems would live, and which of mine would die, but I had enough large operational systems with excellant redundancy on each, to pull through with minimal losses. Tragically however, my clients didn't have that in place!

Each month over the past year I have continued to turn off system after system due to the costs associated with keeping them operational, but always kept hope that I would eventually have the need to fire everything back up again, but it's simply not going to happen! Just yesterday I tore out the primary unit and sold off some of the equipment to a new aquariast that was thrilled to get top quality commercial rated equipment for less than the cost of used consumer grade stuff that often times isn't worth bringing home.

At peak operation, I had 30+ large pumps running, dozens of lights, and a utility bill that was through the roof, not to mention the consumables such as food, RO filters, bags, heaters, de-humidifiers (these last about 6 months tops due to salt intake), lime, CO2, Muriatic Acid, SALT, etc. Keep in mind that bulbs must be replaced at least every 6 months because they have a far greater burn time in a commercial setting than they do in your living room, pumps all require enough spare rebulid parts to be kept on hand at all times to be be able to make repairs to about 1/2 of your system in the event that you take a huge power surge during a storm or simply whenever the power company screws up.

When you're not replacing parts, you'll be cleaning and rebuilding them.

To think that you have a good portion of yoiur requirements covered by simply having a set of scuba gear for each of you isn't even remotely close, because if this is to be your what you feel is a large element of your business, then I will be the first to tell you that you'll need at least 2 complete sets for each diver, then backup systems for those because if one set is being worked on, and the operational set fails, then you are suddenly "non-operational" which could quite easily cost you your entire business... You'll need an absolute minimum of double-redundancy in regards to your diving gear, and you'll also want 100% commercial rated equipment that can easily withstand use and abuse that light consumer grade stuff isn't designed to handle. Don't believe me..? Ask Bill or SeaJay, as both of them are commercial divers.

In regards to costs and infrastructure, I built up 100% of my system myself, at at only 1400 gallons, I had a start up cost of roughly $40k before I ever added the first drop of water... While I stated that my aquaculture "facility" was the first and is/was the largest in the state of Arkansas, it was also not designed to be able to handle the demands of exportation, but exclusively for supporting my local & regional clientele which was 100% end-users and never any stores or distributors. Are you aware that the operations that are equipped to do that sort of thing must do complete water changes on a wekely basis at the most, and due to the amount of water that is being pulled from the systems during shipping, most of them (local fish stores too) end up replacing 100% of their water several times a week.

I realize that you said that you wanted to use existing natural sea water for your operation, but it isn't feasible due to pollutants that are commonly in the top level of the water column, and often encompassing a several mile range from the nearest shoreline. Unless you're Walt Smith and have an operation in the Marshall Islands or some other highly environmentally protected region, then it's a crap shoot at best that also places OUR own systems at risk through the introduction of contaminants.

If you read many of the threads in this forum, then you'll see that I just bought a new "commercial/tech" grade diving rig, and I've spent a good deal of money on it, but nothing even remotely close to what I had spent to be able to first turn on my aquaculture system, let alone the monthly operational costs for several years.

I certainly didn't mean to pee in your Cheerios, but I did want to give you an "insiders" perspective into something that probably 80% of the people that want to open up a reef shop or aquaculture facility have no clue about what is actually involved, because it's certainly no longer anywhere near the same realm as that lovely livingroom system that you have.

If you have any further questions regarding anything that I have written, PLEASE take the time to ask them.

BTW: I spoke with the owner of an equipment manufacturing company yesterday morning, who has decided to stop manufacturing the products that made him very successful in this industry, because people are not spending money on reefkeeping systems when they don't have jobs and can barely support their families at this point... He made the same very difficult and painful decision that I have had to make, and he too has taken about a year tfor the reality of it all to set in and make a final decision. This pains me very much in more ways than one, because I exclusively used his aquarium controllers and felt them to be the finest on the market in many regards. Before I was in the aquaculture and system design & maintenance business, I was in the product design & manufacturing business within this industry, but sold that company several years ago, thus I have been around it all for quite a number of years.

Kindest regards,

Tim Greene
www.nea-reefkeeping.com
 
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tgreene:

Im sorry to hear your business did and/or is failing. Im not going to go into it blindfolded. However the advice was very... interesting. :)

dominga:
Thanks for the warning. Ill do fine with government officials. :)

philter4:
Yes blue spots and others would be nice :D

To all, I will not rely on only one source of income.
 
Im sorry to hear your business did and/or is failing. Im not going to go into it blindfolded. However the advice was very... interesting. :)

I am moving to Mexico. I want to start a business. I believe people deserve the best care for their purchase. If you can direct me or tell me to and of any rules or regulations to collecting marine fish/coral inverts or perhaps starting an aquaculture facility with seawater as its main source of water changes thanks. I am marrying a Mexican woman so it should be an adventure! We already have the scuba diving outfits and certified diving will be next. I love the ocean and this hobby. I really want to do something good for it. Any help appreciated.
To the contrary, that sounds exactly like what you're doing!

You asked for advice and info about "rules and regulations" and "starting an aquaculture facility", then when given said info you've dismissed it all.

I wish you the best of luck, because you're going to need it! :hmm4:
 
Gee, tgreene, don't you think some second hand dive equipment and a basic scuba cert card (in the near future) is adequate to set up a direct fish and invert internet sales operation between the US and Mexico? Some people have to learn things on their own. They will politely thank you for your input, but know with an absolute certainty that the problems you mention will be, for them, mere trifles. I mean, how hard can it be? Right?

It could be that the Mexican spouse in this situation is the daughter of a millionaire former president of Mexico, and that the American spouse has thousands of hours of mariculture experience, an intimate familiarity with US wildlife importation regulations, and access to private cargo aircraft. I hope this is the case, because if it is not, I see disaster on the horizon. But maybe not. If you keep a positive attitude, how can you fail?
 
Hey guys, I appreciate the info. I understand that its not going to be easy. However what I'm looking for is solutions. Hints, tips and tactics etc. There are many options besides capturing fish if all else fails. You don't suck tgreene.

To slay a beast you have to know the beast first. :)
 
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