Excellent. Much of the time the lateness would be ok, but it cannot hurt to make 100% sure with the extra transfer.
Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method
- Thread starter snorvich
- Start date
Excellent. Much of the time the lateness would be ok, but it cannot hurt to make 100% sure with the extra transfer.
Spar
New member
In best practice, shouldn't you start the TTM over from the beginning if there is any risk that you missed even a single window? If you did actually miss the window that means that a Theront could very likely have made its way on to a fish, and that for another 3 to 7 days.
Once a trophont leaves the fish, it becomes a protomont. During this phase, it loses its cilia, flattens its surfaces, and moves onto a substrate for about 2–18 hours. (so minimum would be 2 hours) After this stage, the organism stops, sticks to the surface, and encysts, whereupon it becomes a tomont. The cyst hardens in about 8–12 hours (Colorni 1985). minimum would be 8 hoursBefore the cyst forms, the protomont may be susceptible to some treatments for a short period of time. However, once the cyst has formed and hardened around the tomont, it has greater protection against common treatments
Tomonts range in size from 94.5 x 170 µm (~ 1/10 mm x 1/6 mm) to 252 x 441 µm (~1/4 x 1/2 mm). The tomont of one strain of Cryptocaryon was 210 x 763 μm (~1/5 x 3/4 mm). The encysted tomont undergoes many divisions, producing numerous daughter tomites (approximately 100 to 1000, depending upon strain and temperature [Colorni and Burgess 1997]). These tomites are released as theronts, the free-swimming infective stage which is also the stage most susceptible to most salinity or chemical treatments.
The time required for theront development varies. In one study (Colorni and Burgess 1997), theronts emerged from a group of tomonts sometime between 3 and 72 days, with most released from 4 to 8 days after tomont formation. so minimum of 3 days In another study (Diggles and Lester 1996c ), tomite development and theront release occurred, on average, between 5 and 12.1 days after tomont formation, depending upon strain and temperature. There was no correlation between tomont size and theront release.
So, the the minimum time period would be about 73-78 hours. However . . .
Yoshinaga and Dickerson (1994) observed, in laboratory studies, that theronts were released only between the hours of 2:00 am and 9:00 am, even in total darkness; some suggest this strategy increases the chance for theronts to find a host, as many fish may be resting or closer to substrate during this time period. This is why I always suggest moving fish during tank transfer quarantine protocols in the morning.
So as long as you move the fish before the early evening you should be fine. If you extend into the 2 AM to 9AM window, you should restart the transfer protocol from the beginning. I know this is getting obsessively technical, sorry. Best would be to move in the morning as scheduled because of the release window but it could go over by a few hours with no consequence.
This is all a ton of new information for me as a beginner, and some of it scares me because i really don't want to be dealing with ICH in my display, I'm 8 months into the hobbie and never had ICH. Im not experienced enough to know the whole cycle exactly but after the last 2 posts i feel like i just need to run this by you guys one more time to confirm all is good…. I would feel much better about it lol.
Btw, the fish (yellow tang) is doing great, eating like a pig twice a day. It never had ICH as far as i can tell but this is a precaution Ive chosen to take, Tank transfer method, then prazi pro.
-April 6th- fish in tank
April 7th
April 8th
-April 9th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 10th
April 11th
-April 12th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 13th
April 14th
-April 15th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 16th
April 17th
April 18th- fish was supposed to be transferred before lights but instead was transferred on the following morning...
April 19th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 20th
April 21st
April 22nd- Fish transfered in new tank for Prazi pro treatment before entering DT.
Please tell me I'm safe?
Btw, the fish (yellow tang) is doing great, eating like a pig twice a day. It never had ICH as far as i can tell but this is a precaution Ive chosen to take, Tank transfer method, then prazi pro.
-April 6th- fish in tank
April 7th
April 8th
-April 9th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 10th
April 11th
-April 12th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 13th
April 14th
-April 15th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 16th
April 17th
April 18th- fish was supposed to be transferred before lights but instead was transferred on the following morning...
April 19th- fish transferred in new tank before lights
April 20th
April 21st
April 22nd- Fish transfered in new tank for Prazi pro treatment before entering DT.
Please tell me I'm safe?
Last edited:
arom
New member
This sounds odd to me. How does the theronts have an awareness to time? seems pretty arbitrary to say between 2:00am and 9:00am. What if you have a reverse light cycle in a dark basement?
Spar
New member
Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method
Again, completely forget what has been said about mornings. The single most important detail are the tank transfers with proximity to 72 hours or less until 12 days passes. As Snorvich pointed out you may be able to go 78 hours... But if you waited 96 hours then you need to start over. Just adding one more tank transfer will not help since a cyst may have hatched in that period.
The cyst stage is the period you are 'tricking' with the TTM. Given we know a cyst will be hardened on a surface (and not on a fish) for at minimum 72 hours.
Again, completely forget what has been said about mornings. The single most important detail are the tank transfers with proximity to 72 hours or less until 12 days passes. As Snorvich pointed out you may be able to go 78 hours... But if you waited 96 hours then you need to start over. Just adding one more tank transfer will not help since a cyst may have hatched in that period.
The cyst stage is the period you are 'tricking' with the TTM. Given we know a cyst will be hardened on a surface (and not on a fish) for at minimum 72 hours.
I can't believe i was almost done and now i have to restart from day 1 only because i missed the last transfer? 
I thought i read somewhere that the reason we do 4 transfers is to be certain all ICH is gone but technically ICH can be completely gone by the 2nd or 3rd transfer….
I guess its just hard for me to accept that i have to re-do the whole process now.
I thought i read somewhere that the reason we do 4 transfers is to be certain all ICH is gone but technically ICH can be completely gone by the 2nd or 3rd transfer….
I guess its just hard for me to accept that i have to re-do the whole process now.
Using Google Scholar, check out the paper referenced.
Spar
New member
I can't believe i was almost done and now i have to restart from day 1 only because i missed the last transfer?
I thought i read somewhere that the reason we do 4 transfers is to be certain all ICH is gone but technically ICH can be completely gone by the 2nd or 3rd transfer"¦.
I guess its just hard for me to accept that i have to re-do the whole process now.
You are correct, the 4th transfer is a 'just in case', but you are taking a slight risk... one that I personally wouldn't take. Given the life cycle all parasites that came with the fish should have jumped off and formed a cyst within the first 8 days. And you would do a transfer on the 9th day... But if a parasite hangs on for an extra day, the 3rd transfer may miss it.
I can't believe i was almost done and now i have to restart from day 1 only because i missed the last transfer?
I thought i read somewhere that the reason we do 4 transfers is to be certain all ICH is gone but technically ICH can be completely gone by the 2nd or 3rd transfer….
No, it is because you are capitalizing on the timing of the life cycle so that no tomites are able to exist and reinfect your fish.
I guess its just hard for me to accept that i have to re-do the whole process now.
The timing of the CI lifecycle is very definitive on the front end (although variable on the back end) so yes, if you missed a transfer, you provided a small chance for the infectious stage to exist.
Exactly correct. It is the highly definitive front end that allows TT to work so effectively. I personally always do it within 72-74 hours.
Amen to that. Remember that treating with copper is much less sure since the back end of the life cycle is so variable and exposure to copper for more than 30 days is undesirable. While the "gold standard" is 2 times the average life cycle for treatment, there is a chance, albeit a small one, that you will not catch the tomite phase.
arom
New member
Cryptocaryon Irritans - tank transfer method
Is there any impact if it's less then 72? Example would be that you started the transfer process at noon(received the fish) but did the following TT at 7:00am to get on a morning transfer schedule?
Is there any impact if it's less then 72? Example would be that you started the transfer process at noon(received the fish) but did the following TT at 7:00am to get on a morning transfer schedule?
salty joe
Active member
Spar
New member
Less than 72 hours is perfectly acceptable and, to many, even a better practice. You will some people talk of doing them every 48 hours. The benefit of 72 hours is that you allow a longer period of time for your prior tank and equipment to dry completely. But if you have a good cleaning and drying regime then earlier is a great option.
The '12 day' part is very important though. So if, for example, you do transfers every 48 hours, you will need to do a total of at least 6 transfers.
Exactly. Cleaning and especially drying is very important but as Spar indicates 48 hours and 6 transfers is better still. I did not think I could sell the 48 hours rather than 72 hours concept when I wrote the original thread and sticky. People complain about it as it is now. :uhoh3:
mnavick
Member
I may have missed something so forgive me in asking. After reading all this and am in my last TT before QT I came across a question/thought.
If the ich has fallen off and is now sitting on the bottom of the tank within the 3 days and on the 4th morning while transferring is it possible to catch some in the colander while removing the fish (fish are naturally kicking up everything evading capture)?
After my 1st or 2nd transfer I thought of this so while the fish is in the colander I try to dip a little using the surface water of the old tank.
If the ich has fallen off and is now sitting on the bottom of the tank within the 3 days and on the 4th morning while transferring is it possible to catch some in the colander while removing the fish (fish are naturally kicking up everything evading capture)?
After my 1st or 2nd transfer I thought of this so while the fish is in the colander I try to dip a little using the surface water of the old tank.
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