Cycling??? REALLY??????

[Chag]

I completely disagree with this statement. This board is riddled with first posters who have stocked too quickly and are suffering the consequences.

If the point of the post was that by using Live rock, sand, and multiple early water changes you can speed up your cycle, or limit the dangers of it, then that is true, and not revolutionary. If the point of your post is that you can ignore your cycle and just load up the tank immediately, then I can say with personal experience, that survival in a fast cycled system is lower.

Ironically enough, I started a tank right around the same time as you and my cycle finished after 3 weeks. I added my first frags at the 1 month point. In the last month I've added 15 small frags. Zoas and LPS. I haven't lost one, and they are beginning to grow/multiply/encrust their bases. What signaled me that I was ready to add corals was the coralline started growing like crazy.

I'd be interested in seeing some updated pics of your tank as well. Has your algae begun to subside?

That's interesting, so you have a tank that is about the same age as mine? Can you give us a link to it, or post up some pics? I think it would make a great comparison. My corals are growing too although they only recently started to. I think this has to do with me moving things around the tank every other day cause I wasn't happy with something. I haven't lost anything in here yet. I'm making exceptions with the xenias.... they did well before I stocked many other corals, now they are sucking it up.

I'm not trying to ignore cycle, I think it can be rushed. What died in the tank that you tried to rush with? How did you go about rushing it?

EDIT: I think I miss read. So you tank has been up for about 2 months total? You added livestock at 4weeks and now they've grown for a month? Can you give a brief history? It would be cool to see someone else's personal experience that is different from mine.

 

[dwd5813]

I know the board is riddle fast cycle failures, but I'm trying to make a point of how many of these guys actually did it correctly? Of the people who did them right how many still had fish deaths? Cause, I know that even with regular cycling people still experience fish deaths.

i'm missing the disconnect between what you are proposing and what you call regular cycling, and i'm trying to make the point that doing it correctly is just a matter of waiting till your ammonia and nitrite zero out (at a minimum). again, the time it takes is a function of the quality/maturity of the rock. so the only thing that seems to be getting reinforced here is simply that adding livestock before the rock is cycled is a bad idea. you yourself stated that you added a small amount of bioload (2 baby clowns and a cuc). that sounds pretty reasonable for an addition after the cycle is complete. not fast, really. so it seems you got good rock that allowed you to reach the ready point relatively quickly compared to some other systems, which is awesome. NOT a reason to discount the value of cycling properly though. that process happened elsewhere for your rock. you just got to jump in at an opportune time. again, the lesson i see here is only to use the best quality cured rock available.

do a round of tests if you would, while you wait for your corals to wake up. post those numbers too.

 

[Footbag]

That's interesting, so you have a tank that is about the same age as mine? Can you give us a link to it, or post up some pics? I think it would make a great comparison. My corals are growing too although they only recently started to. I think this has to do with me moving things around the tank every other day cause I wasn't happy with something. I haven't lost anything in here yet. I'm making exceptions with the xenias.... they did well before I stocked many other corals, now they are sucking it up.

I'm not trying to ignore cycle, I think it can be rushed. What died in the tank that you tried to rush with? How did you go about rushing it?

EDIT: I think I miss read. So you tank has been up for about 2 months total? You added livestock at 4weeks and now they've grown for a month? Can you give a brief history? It would be cool to see someone else's personal experience that is different from mine.

Here is my build thread...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1814519

I've been planning an update for a while, will do it soon. I've got a few growth pictures to post, but it's really only three weeks of growth. So it may be boring for everyone but me. The only thing I put in there prematurely was a Rainbow monti. Probably should've waited another few weeks, if not more, but I'm hoping to use it as an indicator of my stability. And it got me a shipping break, so it was pretty much free.

In my first tank, the one that I rushed(15 years ago), I lost every coral I added. Even the easy ones. The only thing that survived was a Damsel and he survived for a lot longer then I would've liked. I gave up on the tank and went FOWLR. Then a few years later, I tried again, not repeating my mistakes and did much better. This is my third reef, and I'm older and wiser.

 

[Chag]

Yeah, dwd5813 my wording on some of this stuff is iffy. But yes, adding livestock when ammonia/nitrites aren't 0 is a horrible idea lol. I'm just trying to say that with good LR and what not, you can add livestock (slowly) pretty soon after there is water in your tank. For me this was 3 days, for others will be longer/shorter depending on rock quality. I guess during the period when ammonia/nitrite drops to 0 will be the "cycle" of the tank.

Footbag, I like your tank . It has a lot more coralline than mine. I wish mine had the purple glow instead of the lime green glow lol. What do you plan on stocking your tank with? SPS, LPS? What had happened to your old tank to cause the crash?

I did ran the full panel of tests while my corals wake up. Ammonia/Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20 (even though I just did a WC yesterday, so I am cutting feeding to 3 x a week.) Ca 400, Alk 3.5meq, sal 1.026, pH 8.1

FTS, the anem is gone new addition are two zoas plugs. They are doing better and zoa pox is fading. Back wall is a torch coral. More zoas + aussy duncan will be added soon.

Here is a new zoa plug with 3 types of polyps on it. Not sure what they are. The frogspawn has grown quite a bit and make my tank look smaller now.

Tailspot foraging for food take a few days ago.

In general not much have changed. I mess with the tank a lot less now and hopefully the corals will appreciate it. 1 more 3day treatment of zoa pox on Wed. Then 3 more frags will be added including a purple toadstool. I have trouble getting the algae that are near the bottom of the tank. The mag float does nothing to it and I don't want to stir up a zillion sand particles. Anyone have any ideas? Sorry about some of the pictures, they are pretty low quality.

 

[Footbag]

Footbag, I like your tank . It has a lot more coralline than mine. I wish mine had the purple glow instead of the lime green glow lol. What do you plan on stocking your tank with? SPS, LPS? What had happened to your old tank to cause the crash?

Thanks. I plan on the bottom being some zoanthids and LPS. And the top being SPS.

With my old tank, I just didn't know enough. At the time, there was no internet, and LFS's were very mixed in their suggestions. This was probably 1995 or so. If it looked cool, I would buy it. I had bought sponges and gorgo's not having any idea of their care. At the time, the LFS I went to wasn't much help.

As I think about it, I did have a green carpet anemone that I bought very early on, that survived the tank crash and only died a few years back after running into a PH. I only remember buying it because it was the last thing I bought that I didn't research before buying. I didn't know it could sting. :worried2:

I will say that in my opinion, I like the more conscientious approach that is taken to reefkeeping today. From aqua-culturing to the new rock harvesting methods, all leave much less of an environmental impact that earlier attempts. As cheesy as it sounds, there was a lesson to be learned from Finding Nemo. I'm always amazed at what I can only call the "Nemo effect". Even though the point of the movie was that a fish from the ocean was taken out of their natural environment, many people ran out and bought fishbowls and clownfish without doing their due diligence. In other words, the point of the movie was completely missed and it ended up doing more damage then good. I'm hoping to buy mostly aquacultured frags to grow out in this tank, and that is how I hope to limit my impact. This is a much different approach then I had taken when I begin in this hobby.

 

[Chag]

Man, my gf only supported my decision to start a SW because of Finding Nemo...lol. But, I am happy to say that I'm sure 95% of the stuff in my tank are not harvested from the wild. I don't know about the blenny or the cleaner shrimp though. I can't imagine starting a tank without any info to begin with.

 

[GhostCon1]

Yeah I'm thinking about adding a few tangs in my tank too. I just ordered some from fresh from Fiji shipped directly to my door! I can't wait!

Was this a typo? Tangs in a 10gal wont work.

But, I admit, I have done the same thing you have, years ago with a FOWLR tank and I never had any problems with it. I do not advocate doing that. I think it is the reason I have problems with red slime.

Other than that, your tank looks really nice, there is one pic I saw that made me do a double take and recheck to see if it was indeed a 10, because your DIY rockwork makes it seem too deep for a simple 10

 

[Zebodog]

Was this a typo? Tangs in a 10gal wont work.

But, I admit, I have done the same thing you have, years ago with a FOWLR tank and I never had any problems with it. I do not advocate doing that. I think it is the reason I have problems with red slime.

Other than that, your tank looks really nice, there is one pic I saw that made me do a double take and recheck to see if it was indeed a 10, because your DIY rockwork makes it seem too deep for a simple 10

I think you missed the sarcasm tags on the post about the tangs.

It was in response to a previous post when someone sarcastically mentioned they had a sailfin in a 10gal.

 

[GhostCon1]

Oh, probably, I have read close to 200 pages on RC in the past day and a half... I have undoubtedly missed a lot of things lol.

 

[Chag]

Was this a typo? Tangs in a 10gal wont work.

But, I admit, I have done the same thing you have, years ago with a FOWLR tank and I never had any problems with it. I do not advocate doing that. I think it is the reason I have problems with red slime.

Other than that, your tank looks really nice, there is one pic I saw that made me do a double take and recheck to see if it was indeed a 10, because your DIY rockwork makes it seem too deep for a simple 10

Thank you! Yeah that's all sarcasm lol. I made sure to have an uncluttered aquascape because it makes the tank look bigger.

 

[sk8rreefgeek]

stay away from nems and SPS and you should be fine

 

[dwd5813]

so how are things? current pics/numbers?

 

[Chag]

I will post a pic up soon. I just got a new light fixture for cheap on craigslist. I also got a aquaeuro nano skimmer to try to reduce nutrients. I don't think I'll have enough room in the back for chaetos anymore . The skimmer will get here Monday and I'll be ordering new bulbs for the fixture. It is a 24inc 2x65W PC. I know they aren't as good as T5 but its almost 100W more output so I figure it should still be an upgrade. The bulbs are old and I'm looking to replace them with a 14k/420 and a 454nm UVL bulbs Tuesday.

Everything is fine but I still have to pick up some duncans and some zoas. I just discovered some dinos on a piece of rock. I took it out and poured hydrogen peroxide then alchohol over it. Scrubbed rinsed then repeated again. Hopefully the stuff won't take over.

 

[Chag]

I just got the new bulbs and screwed them on. Holy crap are they bright. It hurts my eyes. I will post pics in a few days so when the inhabitants become adjusted to the light

 

[sterling18]

After reading about 5 pages, I'll add this.

What OP did was similar to someone migrating from one tank to another. The issues started when the OP decided to rub the collective noses of the older reefers here by stating not only does it work but the method of slow is fast and fast is smooth is out dated.

Look, if it works for you great. Would I do it. No, even when I moved from one tank to another in my home, I took four weeks to seed my new tank before I moved the rest of my live rock and live stock.

But I do wish you the best of luck and hope that you stay in the hobby.

btw, please don't use ADD as a crutch because it isn't.

 

[Daniel Reef]

Any update? It's been three weeks since the last pics.

 

[Chag]

I had a massive ADD attack and couldn't take how slow things were going so I sold the whole thing.

 

[Chag]

I'm just joking. I've been busy studying for a very important test. Now that it is over I can take some pictures of what is going on. There are actually quite a few changes.

I've gotten a 24inch 2x65w PC light. The bulbs in them are 14k/420 and a 2x455 UVL. I never did get the duncan coral I wanted for the anem trade. I've been too busy to contact the person so I guess he got a good deal. (I only got a single head of torch coral for it.) I called/messaged him a couple times and he just avoids me. Who knows what is going on. Maybe I'll try to contact him again and get a ricordia or two from him. I also got a nano skimmer in the back now but it doesn't pull out very much stuff.

As for livestock, my cleaner shrimp had a bad molt then he molted again in a week then he just disappeared. Nothing on the ground no corpses in the tank just a new molted skin. Then the night before my test my tailspot blenny jumped out and I found him withered on the ground the next morning.

I plan to replace these guys with 2 blue porcelain crabs, pom pom crab and an anemone crab. I've also added a few astrea snails. They haven't moved an inch since I put them in the tank earlier today.

Every coral has grown quite a bit. There are still some xenias left but they aren't flourishing. I also broke off a ton of tentacles on my torch by accident because I tried to move it off the back wall. Also, I added an elegance coral to the tank about 15days ago.

There are small patches of coralline everywhere more red kind than purple though. Hair algae is pretty annoying that's why I got the extra snails. I haven't done any water tests besides CA alk and pH for a while. The last time I checked the nitrate level was at 10ppm or less. The pH is at around 8.3. I've started to do less water changes. Last time I did a water change was prob a month ago for 2 gallons. The alk never really drops below 7eq but the Ca drops from 400 to 320 in 2 weeks. So I've started to dose brightwell calcion to ensure good levels of Ca. I actually had a dinoflagellate problem for a while but it kinda just went away.

I'm going to clean up the tank a bit and take some pictures

 

[PIMPALA]

sooooooo... updated pics?

 

[mullinsd2]

idk if I missed something, but it just sounds like he is saying you can take cured live rock and set up a tank with it. I have done this twice; when I upgraded to a 75, and when I downgraded back to a jbj 28. Never did any harm to corals or fish. It seems like you are making a point that has been accepted a long time ago?