DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...

[doggydoc]

 

[DRThompson]

Although I read entire thread, there are still points waiting to fully clarified. Since english is not my native, I just cannot be sure if the term "flush" means emptying the box first then refill with dirty water from aquarium, or, feed nitrate free water to aquarium and pump dirty water into container same time.

Flush means to flush water thru the chamber, NOT to empty the container. The bacteria doesnt really like air . I usually time how long it takes to fill the container and then multiply that time by 3. My chamber is about 10 gal and takes 7min to fill with a maxi1200pump. At the end of every cycle I flush my chamber for 20 min.

Another question is, when nitrates reach to zero in container, what happens if we do not empty it in right time or dont feed it with methanol? (Electricity failure scenario) I think bacteria will start dying and leeching nitrates and/or nitrites back to water in container...?

The bacteria will go into a holding or hybernation-like state for a while when there is no food source. I wouldnt worry about power outages. Theoretically, the bacteria would start breaking sulfate bonds for energy once the nitrates are gone. IME this takes a LONG time to happen. Also, dosing Strontium nitrate should help prevent this.

You should periodically adjust the methanol dose as your nitrates get lower. However, dont try to micro manage the methanol dose when your nitrates get down under 10ppm.

Finally, Is there any obvious advantage of using methanol, over ethanol?

Yes, methanol is only 1 carbon and is easier for the bacteria to work with. Remember, you want this reaction to happen as fast as possible. I suppose any organic carbon source would work but methanol would probably work the fastest.

Dave

 

[DRThompson]

I would rather not have to DIY a container, but don't need the whole system, since I already have an Apex and can add an Apex DOS (for a lot less money than the Natureef system) to do the dosing. It doesn't look like the container is sold alone, though, so I may have to go the DIY route anyway. The official Natureef containers have a "phosphate option", at an additional cost of $150. What exactly does this include?

You dont have to use a fancy acrylic container. A plastic garbage can with uniseals is fine. The phosphate option is just dosing strontiun nitrate or their "phosphagone".

Your last question I cant answer, I dont sell Natureef products. This is a DIY thread for natureef-like methanol denitrators.

 

[Ontheway]

Doggydoc, thanks a lot for the pics, leftmost part is denitrator I think. Very beautiful and well organized sump, btw. It is certain that white pipes add something to cleanness of the sump. Can you show or give info on water inlet and outlet of denitrator? Thanks for taking time.

DrThompson; thanks for explanations, so basically water circulates through container and container level remains same all the time. For bacteria, LONG time means at least a few days I think, because I was trying to run a classical (rock only) denitrator but failed to succeed, mostly because nitrate and nitrite levels were sky high at reactor outputs which remained same for several days, disturbed all live stock, for this I turned the motor off. Until now, no color change to black ( for three days ) within reactor.

One last question, Do you think an ORP unit provide any help for precise timing of water circulations?

 

[mrx66699]

You dont have to use a fancy acrylic container. A plastic garbage can with uniseals is fine. The phosphate option is just dosing strontiun nitrate or their "phosphagone".

Your last question I cant answer, I dont sell Natureef products. This is a DIY thread for natureef-like methanol denitrators.

Dave I think this just includes a dual pump or an extra dosing pump is what the option refers to....

 

[mrx66699]

Do I need to seed the reactor with existing bacteria or will it eventually develop on its own? What is the bacteria being used to metabolize the nitrates?

Bill

Bill yours will develop bacteria over time....we usually jump start this process by sharing out some existing bacteria from each other and kind of paying it forward like process

 

[hawkinmd]

Thanks for the reply. I am really enjoying this thread.

Bill

 

[garryclarkfl]

After going your entire thread I finally feel as if I can build DIY setup instead of buying one, and wish you guys a little closer NW Florida. Will be building one soon for my 48x36x30 which gives me new life to many setbacks I've occurred over two years. Thanks again.

 

[dougc]

Thanks. I know you don't sell the product. I just wondered about the phosphate option because I didn't know whether there was something unique about the reactor that had to be considered if going the DIY route.

 

[mrx66699]

Thanks for the reply. I am really enjoying this thread.

Bill

Glad we could help you.

After going your entire thread I finally feel as if I can build DIY setup instead of buying one, and wish you guys a little closer NW Florida. Will be building one soon for my 48x36x30 which gives me new life to many setbacks I've occurred over two years. Thanks again.

Looking forward to seeing the results.....

Thanks. I know you don't sell the product. I just wondered about the phosphate option because I didn't know whether there was something unique about the reactor that had to be considered if going the DIY route.

Nope nothing except plenty of space for bacteria to attach too and grow with proper flow

 

[delmo]

When I reworked my tank with new sand and rockscape + a little more rock than original...
My Denitrator crashed, leading to a die off, and now I am managing an incline again, but I think I need some bacteria from someone. It's kind of weird, all the bacteria has disappeared. Like the 2 inches of stuff sitting on the bottom for the last decade, has gone away. I have managed to keep it going with all new minor growth on the sides, and have gone from a 3 day cycle to a 2 day cycle, but it's remaining at a 2 day cycle for like 2 weeks now, with not much noticeable growth. So I think I need to nuke it with some bacteria from someone's chamber. DR.T, could I get a hook up? I have some time this week to kind of play around with things due to an injury and I'm out of work because of it. I have to be slow and careful, but hey, I'll take it.

 

[mrx66699]

Have you increased the feeding....or just lengthened the cycle....stop by if you need bacteria

 

[delmo]

Both, I've increased feed and time. I appreciate it the offer mrx66699. perhaps I could swing by today/tonight. I'll pm you.

On another note, I've finally decided to take the plunge and abandon my fully stocked ReefKeeper system, and get a new full Apex setup, and then the DÖS when they become available again. Leaving me to get rid of my Liter Meter III with brand new RPM G6, a brand new Stenner 100dmp5, and the full RKE setup in the coming weeks.

 

[mrx66699]

Tonight is fine after 5 and i will take the lm3 and accessories when your ready

 

[bmanzie]

So I find something interesting and I am hoping someone cold share their thoughts.
My chamber was reading zero nitrates a few weeks after startup. Shortly after I began to dose strontium and didn't measure nitrate after that. To my surprise the nitrates began to creep up in the chamber again.I couldn't figure out why so I started looking at all the pieces in the puzzle. I decided to stop dosing the strontium and two days after doing so my nitrates are back to zero in the chamber.
My question is can the strontium really be causing my nitrates to rise?

 

[zachts]

So I find something interesting and I am hoping someone cold share their thoughts.
My chamber was reading zero nitrates a few weeks after startup. Shortly after I began to dose strontium and didn't measure nitrate after that. To my surprise the nitrates began to creep up in the chamber again.I couldn't figure out why so I started looking at all the pieces in the puzzle. I decided to stop dosing the strontium and two days after doing so my nitrates are back to zero in the chamber.
My question is can the strontium really be causing my nitrates to rise?

What time during the cycle do you dose the strontium? As I recall the bacterial use up a bit of phosphates during the cycle and if it's removed they may go dormant before eating up all the nitrates.......If memory serves that is.....

 

[bmanzie]

1 hour prior to flush

 

[DRThompson]

So I find something interesting and I am hoping someone cold share their thoughts.
My chamber was reading zero nitrates a few weeks after startup. Shortly after I began to dose strontium and didn't measure nitrate after that. To my surprise the nitrates began to creep up in the chamber again.I couldn't figure out why so I started looking at all the pieces in the puzzle. I decided to stop dosing the strontium and two days after doing so my nitrates are back to zero in the chamber.
My question is can the strontium really be causing my nitrates to rise?

Hey Bill,
Need to get some more info:
How often do you cycle the chamber?
How much methanol do you dose?
How much strontium do you dose?
What are your nitrates in your display tank?
What are your phosphates at the end of a cycle in the chamber?

Remember, you are dosing strontium nitrate. It can give a false reading for nitrates in your chamber.

 

[bmanzie]

Hey Bill,
Need to get some more info:
How often do you cycle the chamber? I was cycling the chamber 4 times a day when nitrates were zero in the chamber. When I saw nitrates begin to climb in the chamber I increased the methanol dose and changed the chamber flush to twice a day.
How much methanol do you dose? 20 min or 22ml
How much strontium do you dose? 25 min or 27.5ml
What are your nitrates in your display tank? Today the nitrates are reading 5 in the display tank
What are your phosphates at the end of a cycle in the chamber? At the end of the cycle my phosphates are reading .54 in the chamber. In my display tank the PO4 is reading .87.

Remember, you are dosing strontium nitrate. It can give a false reading for nitrates in your chamber.

 

[Gangous]

How does the strontium work to reduce po4 is it similar to lanthaium chloride?