DIY Natureef Style Denitrator Build and Data thread...


Methanol dosing looks good, You could increase that a little (maybe 25-30)
Strontium dose looks fine. Maybe dose it just after your methanol dosing
You could probably increase cycling to 3 times a day.

The strontium will only grab so much phosphate. It also reacts with ALK in the chamber. You may still need to use other methods to help reduce phosphates.
 
Gangous said:
How does the strontium work to reduce po4 is it similar to lanthaium chloride?
Click to expand...

Reactions in the chamber:

Adding Strontium Nitrate Sr(NO3)2
As the bacteria start removing oxygen atoms from nitrate (NO3) they will separate the strontium from the nitrate. The strontium will bond with HPO4 (orthophosphate) already in the water and precipitate out. Similar to the way Lanthanum reacts; The Strontium Phosphate is a solid and is stable. Also like Lanthanum, it will react with ALK producing Strontium Carbonate. Your skimmer should remove it. It's not as dangerous as Lanthanum so no need to use a filter sock.

IME: it will remove some but not all the phosphates. You may still need a secondary phosphate removal depending on your feeding level and bioload.
 
Thank you Dr.T for the explanation makes sense to me now
I've been busy learning to use my apex and still need to buy a doser hoping to have my chamber up soon
 
Dr. T if the strontium will give you false nitrate readings then how could you accurately measure the nitrate in the chamber?
Did I miss understand something?
 
bmanzie said:
Dr. T if the strontium will give you false nitrate readings then how could you accurately measure the nitrate in the chamber?
Did I miss understand something?
Click to expand...

I think the easy answer is, as long as you see nitrates, the cycle is not completely finished. It will always test at 0 when everything is done.
If you're seeing Nitrates from the Strontium-nitrate then the phosphates have not combined with the strontium yet and your phosphate cycle is not done.
Dr.T could probably state that a little better.
 
Dr.T's formula Polished up.

Dr.T's formula Polished up.

Here is a (fill in the blank) formula for methanol dosing in the denitrator chamber:
Nitrate concentration X volume of chamber X 4 (4:1 ratio) X 1.25 (density of methanol) = maint dose

Nitrates in your tank mg/L: _______
Multiplied by
volume of your DENITRATOR in Liters:_________
Multiplied by 5= ____________ divide by 1,000 then divide by 0.81 = ________ml (total amount in milliliters of PURE 100% methanol needed)
Multiplied by 4 for 25% methanol mix=___________(or actual Nitragone)
Or multiplied by 2 for 50% methanol mix=____________

This is your maint . dose per cycle (if you are on your initial dosing then use the above dose every 3 days until cycle completes.)
 
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Does anyone remember/know how many mL/min. the Natureef dosers are?
According to their site it's .15mL/min stated as 216mL/24hr which seems off to me.
It's not listed in their manual either, they only refer to how many minutes of dosing to do.
 
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bmanzie said:
Dr. T if the strontium will give you false nitrate readings then how could you accurately measure the nitrate in the chamber?
Did I miss understand something?
Click to expand...

Strontium nitrate that goes unused can give a false positive for nitrates. IME, the nitrates become undetectable well before the end of the cycle. You should run a cycle without adding Strontium and test nitrates at 3-6 hours after you dose methanol.

Just for fun I tested my strontium nitrate solution with my salifert kit (see pick below) the actual concentration is approx 38,000mg/L which is WAY over the 100mg/L max on the Salifert test kit.

5E153F54-0945-4985-B93A-EAA269083480_zpsdeltqtmo.jpg


Bill, when you dose 25mL of strontium solution, you are increasing the concentration of your chamber by approx 5mg/L of nitrate. (see calculations below)

25ml x 38mg/mL = 950mg (strontium nitrate)
950mg x 70%(nitrate) = 665mg of nitrate portion
665mg/120L (your chamber size) = 5.54mg/L Nitrate concentration in your chamber
 
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At what period of the cycle you guys adding Phosphagone/Strontium? Before, during or after dosing Nitragone/Methanol?
 
So I decided to move away from the strontium and replaced that with the Lanthium mixture.
Lanthium mixes in the chamber (PO4 =0) empties into a filter sock and then is released near the skimmer intakes.
Chamber PO4 currently 0. I will check my display in a few days to see how much it has reduced in there.
 
bmanzie said:
So I decided to move away from the strontium and replaced that with the Lanthium mixture.
Lanthium mixes in the chamber (PO4 =0) empties into a filter sock and then is released near the skimmer intakes.
Chamber PO4 currently 0. I will check my display in a few days to see how much it has reduced in there.
Click to expand...

I've tried this experiment. Watch your ALK, it dropped mine drastically. I also noticed the lanthanum would stick to the bacteria in the chamber. I hardly got any in the sock. The lanthanum makes the bacteria even thicker.(didn't think that was possible)

Let me know how this works for you.
 
What's the procedure for the strontium? Mix it with water first? Dosage? Also is there any kind of consideration to make when purchasing as far as purity is concerned? I found some here:

http://www.skylighter.com/strontium-nitrate.htm

Also I'm about to set mine up in the next few days. 350 gallon system, nitrates currently at 10ppm, up from 2ppm 10 days ago. I'd really like to use a spare 40 breeder I have sitting in the garage, so I can save myself some money and hassle finding a smaller container. That would change out about 34% of the system when flushed three times a day instead of the 20% you shoot for Dr. T. Would that be too far off the mark? If it won't work I'll bite the bullet and get something else, but really don't want to. If I could use it, would a maxi-mod maxijet work for flow? I've got 1600 gph and 2000 gph props to choose from.

TIA
 
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A 40 gal. Is a little on the larger scale, but I have seen it done. You would need to have a cover for it to minimize oxygen exchange. And the flow you want is, from my experience, just enough to move everthing around and not create turbulence, or gas exchange with a rippling top water column, and not so much to inhibit bacteria adhering to the walls.
 
Just ordered the hardware for a DIY system. Using a Glass Cages 16x16x16 cube for the reservoir, Neptune DOS for the doser, Korallia Nano for circulation, and a Mag 3 to flush it. I'll get a starter culture from one of the local club members (quite a few of us in NJ lately). This is on a 180 gallon tank.

I'm away a lot in the warm weather and it has gotten really difficult to keep up with water changes in the summer. Hope this helps.
 
hobbzz said:
What's the procedure for the strontium? Mix it with water first? Dosage? Also is there any kind of consideration to make when purchasing as far as purity is concerned? I found some here:

http://www.skylighter.com/strontium-nitrate.htm

Also I'm about to set mine up in the next few days. 350 gallon system, nitrates currently at 10ppm, up from 2ppm 10 days ago. I'd really like to use a spare 40 breeder I have sitting in the garage, so I can save myself some money and hassle finding a smaller container. That would change out about 34% of the system when flushed three times a day instead of the 20% you shoot for Dr. T. Would that be too far off the mark? If it won't work I'll bite the bullet and get something else, but really don't want to. If I could use it, would a maxi-mod maxijet work for flow? I've got 1600 gph and 2000 gph props to choose from.

TIA
Click to expand...
Best to hold out on strontium until the chamber is cycling at regular intervals (1-2 times/day)

You should buy strontium nitrate that is at least 99% pure, anhydrous 99+% is best. I didn't see any purity information on your link. Mixing concentration should be 37.5g/L or 1lb of powder makes approx 3 gallons of solution.

You should always use caution and wear protective gear when handling SrNO3 powder. Here's a link to the MSDS for Strontium Nitrate https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/22010.htm
NOTE: always add powder to water; not the reverse;)

The 40breeder is fine though a little large. Keep it covered but not air tight. Use eggcrate on the sides and bottom, no eggcrate the middle if possible. You'll need to drill and add at least one bulkhead for drainage.(recommend 1 or 1.25" for drainage)You really need a strong internal high water flow pump (large koralia or Jebao WP25/WP40, RW8/RW15 or similar) The maxi-jet pumps will get clogged. The bacteria that grows in the chamber is VERY thick and slimy.

I can help with Methanol dosing when you're ready to set up. Just PM me.
 
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