Do anemones really expel waste?

[D-Nak]

I keep reading about "anemones expelling waste" and I am curious to know where this hypothesis came from. Can someone direct me to a published article about this?

The only time my magnifica did this was during the first week of acclimation. My RBTAs never did this, and they were fed frequently, so I know they would need to "poop" from time to time. I also read that anemones that are "expelling waste" may be in reality expelling zooxanthella, which of course is not a good thing.

Rather than stir up a debate, or have people respond with their own hypotheses, please direct me to information in writing (online articles, printed publications, etc.)

 

[Toddrtrex]

Is it a hypotheses (( or would you even believe it )) to say that I have seen my S. haddoni expel waste on several occasions? (( most of the time after eating a fish )). Just because I didn't submit it for a paper doesn't mean it isn't true.

Also, why don't you do the research? Since it appears that that is the only information that you want.

 

[Jeff000]

I see my BTA's poop all the time. They are VERY healthy looking, and the poop is a brown slime, looks nasty.

I've never seen a bear poop in the woods, but I assume it does.

 

[Jeff000]

I see my BTA's poop all the time. They are VERY healthy looking, and the poop is a brown slime, looks nasty.

I've never seen a bear poop in the woods, but I assume it does.

 

[D-Nak]

Is it a hypotheses (( or would you even believe it )) to say that I have seen my S. haddoni expel waste on several occasions? (( most of the time after eating a fish )). Just because I didn't submit it for a paper doesn't mean it isn't true.

Yes, it is a hypothesis that your haddoni is expelling waste, since I doubt you actually tested the contents of the "waste". I ask the question again... how do you know it's waste? Other people are saying it's zooxanthellae. I'm sure you believe what you're saying as "true" (a fact) but I don't take it as fact until I believe a credible report, paper, or what have you.

Also, why don't you do the research? Since it appears that that is the only information that you want.

I'm not a scientist per se, so I can't do my own research. My research consists of reading what others in the scientific or reefing community have written and proven as true using the scientific method. That's what I'm looking for. I've Googled and asked fellow reefers, and I can't seem to find a report based on FACT, just the same ol' "my anemone produces waste after it eats."

And frankly, you're right. That is the only information I'm looking for -- facts, not hearsay -- similar to PAR readings for lights, instead of the "well, that 250 watt bulb looks brighter than that 400 watter." I see that you're part of Team RC, so I would expect that you'd promote spreading knowledge instead of hearsay. I was simply looking for a link to something to prove the statement as fact.

 

[D-Nak]

I see my BTA's poop all the time. They are VERY healthy looking, and the poop is a brown slime, looks nasty.

I've never seen a bear poop in the woods, but I assume it does.

That's exactly my point. We know bears poop because someone somwhere saw a bear eat something -- let's use berries as an example -- then collected what appeared to be poop, then found berry parts (seeds) in it. The conclusion is that what came out of the bear is waste (poop).

Guys, I'm hoping someone can point me to a paper or article about what anemones expel, whether it's waste, or zooxanthellae, or a combination of both.

 

[BonsaiNut]

A Functional Biology of Sea Anemones by J. Malcolm Schick

See Chapter 2 (Nutrition) and Chapter 4 (Nitrogen Excretion and Osmotic Balance)

Bottom line, what goes in, must come out. Undigested food matter comes out first, and nitrogenous waste comes out second (mostly in the form of ammonia).

Zooxanthellae is normally not expelled unless the anemone is bleaching.

 

[APBonds]

Yes , I have seen my rbta expel waste, I know it was waste because some of it was undigested food it ate a earlier.

 

[Toddrtrex]

Yes, it is a hypothesis that your haddoni is expelling waste, since I doubt you actually tested the contents of the "waste". I ask the question again... how do you know it's waste? Other people are saying it's zooxanthellae. I'm sure you believe what you're saying as "true" (a fact) but I don't take it as fact until I believe a credible report, paper, or what have you.

How do I know it is waste? Because it was a ball of waste, including bones and flesh.

I don't care if you take it as fact or not, it is simple a fact. And I don't appreciate the attitude you are giving me -- pretty much calling me a liar.

I'm not a scientist per se, so I can't do my own research. My research consists of reading what others in the scientific or reefing community have written and proven as true using the scientific method. That's what I'm looking for. I've Googled and asked fellow reefers, and I can't seem to find a report based on FACT, just the same ol' "my anemone produces waste after it eats."

And frankly, you're right. That is the only information I'm looking for -- facts, not hearsay -- similar to PAR readings for lights, instead of the "well, that 250 watt bulb looks brighter than that 400 watter." I see that you're part of Team RC, so I would expect that you'd promote spreading knowledge instead of hearsay. I was simply looking for a link to something to prove the statement as fact.

Don't need to be a scientist to understand that an anemone is a living creature and as such it produces waste, that is a biological fact.

 

[velvetelvis]

Your public library offers patrons free access to science databases, where you can research this topic for yourself, if you're not inclined to take anyone's word for it. Here you go:

http://www.cityofalamedaca.gov/Library/Databases

 

[tydtran]

Seriously, OP, this seems like a very needless question. If they eat, they have to expel waste. What else are they going to do with it? There is no animal on this planet that can break down food completely. What cannot be broken down has to be excreted.

 

[jeffreylesser]

Don't you know?

 

[D-Nak]

Sorry guys. I didn't mean to offend anyone. I'm on these boards to learn.

Let me clear up a few things:

@ Toddrtrex: my sincerest apologies, I didn't mean to offend you. I was taken a bit off guard by your response and was defensive.

@ BonsaiNut: Much appreciated. This is the type of response I was hoping for.

@tydtran: I think this is a very valid question. My reasons to come.

Okay.... lately I've seen a lot of posts in the anemone forum about people asking "what is this stuff coming out of my anemone?".

Many have speculated it to be different things -- waste, zooxanthellae, and even mesoglea (especially when the anemone is about to die).

I was hoping to be able to point people to an article online somewhere that discussed it from a scientific point of view. An ideal response to my original post would've been something like "oh, check out the October 2008 issue of Advanced Aquarist where so-and-so talks about what anemones expel."

While seeing bones, uneaten fish parts. etc. completely makes sense to me, and I do believe you guys when you say it's waste, there will be folks who will question whether it's waste or not, and an answer like "trust me, it's poop" may work for some, it may not work for others. Regardless, I think it's a valid question.

Part two of the question... does an anemone expel waste if it isn't fed? Many people on these boards have said they they don't actively feed their anemones, and rely on primarily on the zooxanthellae within the anemone to keep the anemone alive. Do these anemones poop?

According to Taro Gomi, the answer is yes!

 

[steelhead77]

I'm one of those who do not actively feed my anemones (I have 7 or 8). They seem to do very well in my tank, split every March for the last 3 years and grow like weeds. Just because I don't actively feed them does not mean they do not get fed. I do broadcast feed my tank several times a week with a mixture of stuff so, along with feeding on light, they do get some food. And yes, they do still expel waste. I've seen it, just not as much as if they were actively fed. Which, by the way is one reason I don't actively feed them. Can you imagine the amount of waste 7 or 8 large nems would put out if I fed them silversides or whatever on a regular basis?

 

[BonsaiNut]

Just because I don't actively feed them does not mean they do not get fed.

This is exactly the point of a long thread recently where we were talking about anemone feeding. Anemones gain energy via four methods:

(1) Direct prey capture
(2) Indirect capture of detritus and/or small food particles
(3) Direct absorption of dissolved organic compounds from the water
(4) Compounds supplied by symbiotic algae

Anemones need to eat. They do not necessarily need to be fed. As living creatures they burn energy and produce waste - even when not eating - just as you produce waste even when you are just sitting. That waste has to be expelled or it builds up within the anemone and eventually kills it. This is why anemones that are stranded at high tide will sometimes die from internal waste build-up before they die from lack of water.

 

[elegance coral]

Zooxanthellae is normally not expelled unless the anemone is bleaching.

That's not true. Anemones are constantly discharging zooxanthellae. The anemone is a finite space. As zooxanthellae grow and reproduce, the anemone must discharge a portion, to accommodate that growth and reproduction. In a clean/low nutrient system this process may be slow, and go unnoticed by us. In higher nutrient environments, it can be quite common to see the brown discharge of zooxanthellae, even when the anemone is not bleaching. It's just making room for more zooxanthellae.

 

[BonsaiNut]

That's not true. Anemones are constantly discharging zooxanthellae.

Elegance I am normally in agreement with your posts, but I am curious if you have a source for this statement? The reason I ask is because the most current published information that I have does not know.

It is hypothesized that the population of algae symbionts is controlled by any of a number of factors:

(1) By physical expulsion (your hypotheses)
(2) By internal digestion
(3) By natural senescence and autolysis (death of algae due old age)
(4) By restricting access to nutrients on the part of the host

All of these processes have been shown to exist within anemones that host populations of symbiotic algae. Additionally, there have been studies that show the recycling of nutrients between algae and host - particularly in nutrient poor environments - so that anemones can serve almost as closed systems in this case.

Population doubling rates of symbiotic algae in hospite are significantly lower that those in situ which suggest limiting factors in algae growth that are not wholly understood. Starvation in the host anemone creates growth limitation in hosted algae - probably due to the absence of waste products that algae use to grow. There are many other environmental factors that impact algae population densities (temperature, light, etc) that have nothing to do (directly) with an anemone physically expelling algae.

So it is my personal opinion that the relationship between algae and host is not as simple as thinking of algae growing unchecked and the host managing population by constantly expelling excess algae population. But there is a lot of research going on right now in this area (related to lighting, zooxanthellae, and coral bleaching) and I may not have the most current material.

 

[jeff@zina.com]

I keep reading about "anemones expelling waste" and I am curious to know where this hypothesis came from.

Hypothesis? ALL living things expel waste. It may or may not be in a form you see, just as you don't see your own body expelling carbon dioxide. Unless it's really cold.

Jeff

 

[jeff@zina.com]

I'm not a scientist per se, so I can't do my own research.

Why not? Scientists aren't special beings, you can follow the same process they would.

Jeff

 

[D-Nak]

Hypothesis? ALL living things expel waste. It may or may not be in a form you see, just as you don't see your own body expelling carbon dioxide. Unless it's really cold.

Jeff

Apologies -- I wasn't clear. I meant to say (simply put) "when you see stuff coming out of your anemone, how do you know that it's waste? Do they really expel waste that we can see?"

Seems like it could be waste, zooxanthellae, anemone guts, or a combination of all.

More importantly, I'm interested to know how to tell the difference between the three. Actually, more specficially, and this is the physical stuff that we can see (not ammonia and whatnot that we can't) waste versus zooxanthellae. I've seen dying anemones with their mesoglea, so I know what that looks like.