Do fish feel pain?

[nanomania]

therz no arguing going on between vegeterians or non vegeterians..... im not agains nonvegeterians though, im jus against some stupid things that go on..... well as far as eating animals and skinny vegeterians goes, iv been into bodybuilding and im a vegeterian, read about people like Bill Pearl, mr.olympia 6 times, he has been a vegeterian too.... well i dont think any animals have caused global warming or deforestation..... problem is that we still think we are the superior species, where as we are all just earthlings..... we are finding life on other planets, atleast stop killing this planet.... anyways this argument is going to go on and on, the basic thing what i wanted to say was jus enjoy the natures beauty for once rather that thinking how to benefit from it.... as far as wearing leather and fur is concerned, jus look at the videos of how its made and how the animals are tortured.... choked, electrocuted, kept hungry till they die, skinned alive, and many more ugly ways.... the male chick are thrown into a grinding machine alive or are sacked in plastic garbage bags alive to sufocate them till death.... i have many types of pets, that many people would not like but i have a passion for all animals, the reason of me going vegeterian is the torture that they go through, nothing else... people are going vegeterian not coz they dont like nonveg food, but the people who do this jus for greed of money...

 

[nanomania]

For more info, jus type "animal fur" or "animal leather" on youtube, ull get what im talking about.....

 

[Paul B]

I agree with you about the fur and leather, I don't think we need fur these days but in distant times we did.
How do you feel about feeding mysis to fish, or if you keep a fish such as a lionfish, what would you feed it?

I feed my fish live worms, baby brine shrimp and fresh clams.
Here in the US we have plenty of vegetarians, some of my friends are and my Daughter was. But in a country like the US I doubt there would be enough food if it were not for fish, chicken, beef etc. But I could be wrong. I do live on fish and vegetables and probably could just live on vegetables, but many fish could not.

 

[nanomania]

i feed my fishes nonveg....... lol........ so dont worry about that..... well my sister stays in usa south carolina and she is vegeterian...... look at vegeterian indian recepies..... ull really enjoy it... there are 100z, or if u coming to india (mumbai) buzz me .....

 

[nanomania]

i feed cyclopeeze, nori, ON formula 2, pods and baby brine once in a month, when i get time... im not into NPS... i also feed bottled plankton once a week.....

 

[Paul B]

...... look at vegeterian indian recepies..... ull really enjoy it... there are 100z, or if u coming to india (mumbai) buzz me .....

Here on Long Island NY where I live we have many Indians, in my town we may have more Indians from India than any other people although the US is a combination of all people from everywhere. We have lots of Indian restaurants and we do eat Indian foods occasionally. My next door neighbor is Indian and a good friend of mine.

 

[Luiz Rocha]

i was waching a show on discovery, and some so called marine biologists found a new species of damsel, they killed it and stored it in sm chemical and disected it..... rubbish.. it was so dam beautiful....my question is why everything discovered new has to be killed??

I can explain that one. In order to have a name, every species has to have a "type", otherwise people that examine other individuals of that same species will not have anything to compare it to. For example, take your damselfish, now imagine 5 years later another group of researchers (or divers, or photographers) came to the same area. The only way they will know if the species that they see is the same is by comparing it to the original type (the one that was killed to represent the species). Another scenario, say you find another damselfish in a nearby area that is very similar, how are you going to determine if it is really new? By comparing to the type, which is safely preserved in a museum collection.

 

[nanomania]

Here on Long Island NY where I live we have many Indians, in my town we may have more Indians from India than any other people although the US is a combination of all people from everywhere. We have lots of Indian restaurants and we do eat Indian foods occasionally. My next door neighbor is Indian and a good friend of mine.

Kool.......

 

[nanomania]

I can explain that one. In order to have a name, every species has to have a "type", otherwise people that examine other individuals of that same species will not have anything to compare it to. For example, take your damselfish, now imagine 5 years later another group of researchers (or divers, or photographers) came to the same area. The only way they will know if the species that they see is the same is by comparing it to the original type (the one that was killed to represent the species). Another scenario, say you find another damselfish in a nearby area that is very similar, how are you going to determine if it is really new? By comparing to the type, which is safely preserved in a museum collection.

Well i dont still get it.. say if some aliens find earth, the first humans thay see are indians, then they see africans, then they see chineese, then they see whites, if the kill us, cut us, disect us, as we all look different. then we are obviuosly going to attack them and kill them, why? because we are humans, superior species on earth, blah blah, etc.... think the other way around for the fish... if they dont feel pain, they wud atleast feel suffocated..... many good public aquariums kill an extreme case sick fish using alcohol so it dies in sleep and not an ugly torturous death.. well thats it...... i cant change anyones thinking nor can challange, but thats my way thinking... 2 of my fishes were so dam sick, there was no chance, so i took them in a jar with tank water, dosed vodka and let them sleep forever....

 

[Paul B]

if the kill us, cut us, disect us, as we all look different

Maybe they already did. :uhoh3:

 

[billsreef]

Maybe they already did. :uhoh3:

If fish could talk, I do know a quite a few that would be telling alien abduction stories that sound very much like the ones some humans tell :eek2:

 

[Wolverine]

Interesting thread. From what I've read of the literature (little) and understood (probably less), it seems that we don't know at this point. My view has been that, when in doubt, I'd rather err on the side of assuming fish do feel pain, and make an effort not to cause it. If I'm wrong, I really haven't created a great burden in my life.

But in a country like the US I doubt there would be enough food if it were not for fish, chicken, beef etc. But I could be wrong.

A little off topic, but exactly the opposite is true. A huge amount of food goes into feeding other animals. Calorie-wise, with beef you get out about 10% of what is put in. Even chicken and (farmed) fish, though more efficient, are fed mostly grain foods that could go to people. The land used for those could easily go to growing a variety of foods for us (instead of mostly corn like it is now) and create a much greater supply for people.

 

[Paul B]

A huge amount of food goes into feeding other animals. Calorie-wise, with beef you get out about 10% of what is put in. Even chicken and (farmed) fish, though more efficient, are fed mostly grain foods that could go to people. The land used for those could easily go to growing a variety of foods for us (instead of mostly corn like it is now) and create a much greater supply for people.

That is true, I forgot about that.

 

[nanomania]

well trust me, its no shame to be a vegeterian....... people converting to vegeterians are not stupid.... as far as the cost is concerned, its almost the same... im not against non-vegeterians, im against the cruelty thats going on coz of that.. Yes but i am against wearing fur and leather..... i love reptiles, and its more beautiful to see them alive, rather than wearing them.... there are many things that can keep us really warm, jus some effort is requiered and search online...... the worst place in the world is china for cruelty on animals.... another is africa, that allows trophy hunting, which is disgusting..... the country that tought us how to love wild, also promotes how to kill.... and yes its legal.... they breed tigers, lions, giraffs, monkeys, elephants, etc.. jus so that people can target shoot them for fun.... when i see all this, all i know is that this aint human.... this grows my respect for all the animals in the world and respect people like steve irwin, due to whome my love for animals have gone from jus petting to loving, educating and conservation.... majority of my pets are all captive bred too.......

 

[Paul B]

i love reptiles, and its more beautiful to see them alive, rather than wearing them..

I was in the Florida Keys last week and I spent most of my time snorkling around mangrove Islands. Plenty of Iguana's there and they are my favorite lizzard. I also love turtles.

This three foot monitor lizzard walked out of the jungle in Viet Nam and became my friend. He had schrapnel wounds near his tail and I bandaged him up. He stayed with me for a month or so and helped me by eating rats. Then one day, he walked back in the jungle.

 

[mperales]

Trying to get back to topic....

A simplified description of pain fibers for the non-scientist.
In the nervous system, most of the response to "pain stimuli" is started by what is called a nociceptor. These nerve endings (nociceptors) are responsible for our response to pain. These receptors have two main groups of nerve fibers, A and C. "A" fibers carry information faster (think DSL line in terms of speed, not amount of information) and C fibers carry information slower ( think dial-up). "A" fibers are responsible for the quick response when we experience trauma, C fibers are responsible for the longer lasting feeling. So, hold your hand over a flame and that first sharp pin "preek" (sp) feeling [web site censoring out the other term ] that makes you pull your hand away is due to A fibers. That longer lasting "burning" sensation that follows is done by C fibers. C fibers are also responsible for the "excruciating", longer lasting pain. "A" fibers are subdivided into alpha, beta, gamma and delta. According to my neurology book "An A-delta fiber responds to either mechanical or temperature stimuli and produces the acute sensation of sharp, bright pain."

Based on the abstract, the authors note that literature acknowledges the fact that fish have "A" nociceptors: " A-delta nociceptors, not yet found in elasmobranchs, but relatively common in teleosts, likely serve rapid, less noxious injury signaling, triggering escape and avoidance responses"

So, A-delta receptors are responsible for sharp bright pain and fish (Teleosts) have A-delta receptors; therefore, in theory fish MAY feel sharp bright pain, not the long lasting "excruciating" pain.

 

[nanomania]

I was in the Florida Keys last week and I spent most of my time snorkling around mangrove Islands. Plenty of Iguana's there and they are my favorite lizzard. I also love turtles.

This three foot monitor lizzard walked out of the jungle in Viet Nam and became my friend. He had schrapnel wounds near his tail and I bandaged him up. He stayed with me for a month or so and helped me by eating rats. Then one day, he walked back in the jungle.

Beautiful.... i love all lizards... all the rescues n rehabs u do, u will remember that for life..... saving animals is the only thing i believe is a charity/cause in which all u do is just give, without any expectation of what you are going to get in return....... thats what i believe true charity is... often people argue on animal charity vs people charity.... we are the 1 who destroyd jungles, killed them for fun more than for food, which has caused huge imbalance in the world... where as people, we have over populated our selves and then any wild animal enters our land (which use to be their home) kills or attacks any of the humans or pets, then still they blame that animal and kill them.... thats sad... iv seen parents teaching their children to hunt n kill rabits, deers, etc.. thats not what u teach your kids man....

 

[Paul B]

Nanomania although I still don't think fish feel pain, I would never try to hurt one. I do eat them almost every day but it is what it is.
I also rescued this duck in Viet Nam. He was tied to a kids handle bars of his bicycle and he was going to be dinner. I gave the kid some C Rations and took the duck. He was the best pet I ever had and stayed with me for the rest of my time there. He would sleep with his head on my shoulder and fly in helocopters with me. That duck was always at my side but sometimes I had to keep him quiet.
I never knew what happened to him as I had to leave him there.

 

[nanomania]

Well im still saying im not against eating nonveg..... well if u look at the population of fishes like tuna, its declining drastically..... initially only the big tunas were caught for food, now there are huge ships that catch tons of tunas together, that include babies too + around 40% of tunas are thrown dead into the sea back coz due to this way of catching, many fishes are not edible + certain buyers dont buy fishes below a perticular size... so u can imagine the waste.. same with the sharks, due to their decline in population, many ciuntries have banned shark fin soup.... the sharks are caught live, then the fins are cut and the sharks are thrown back into the sea... + countries like japan which are allowed to kill fishes like whales, dolfins and tunas whithout any laws.... if u see whale warriors.. Basically what im trying to say is eat fish, but dont eat endangered fishes/animals and at the same time educate people about it... i know many might just laugh it out, but dont giveup..... "The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated" - Gandhi same goes to people...

 

[neilranger]

fish have nerves and brains that sense pain, just as all animals do. Dr. Donald Broom, a scientific advisor to the British government, explains, "The scientific literature is quite clear. Anatomically, physiologically and biologically, the pain system in fish is virtually the same as in birds and mammals." Neurobiologists have long recognized that fish have nervous systems that comprehend and respond to pain. Scientists tell us that fish brains and nervous systems closely resemble our own.